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Scullinius
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…a fact which, no doubt, made his political work much easier.
Scullinius
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Scullinius
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puzzleannie
Guest
Diocesan priests do receive salaries, with SS and medicare deducted, and usually also a pension or 503 retirement savings plan. diocese pays health insurance. This would be an extraordinary expense, probably one of the biggest, if priests had families, because it is already a significant expense for lay diocesan employees, including teachers.
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Bobby_Jim
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First of all, if there ever were to be a change that made celibacy not the norm for all priests, I think religious orders would still maintain it - the whole idea is that the religious priest lives as part of a community, where the life of the community is a priority, and everyone has responsibilities to the community. Meanwhile, for a married priest with children, the family is also a type of community, similar in certain respects. So if a religious priest also had wife and kids, it’s like belonging to two communities at once. So I don’t think that would happen. And regardless of the church’s discipline, there will always be men for whom celibacy and asceticism is part of God’s calling.
As far as diocesan priests - good points have been raised regarding insurance and moving and salary. I think moving around is a big deal - younger priests get moved around all the time, every 3-6 years, and most pastors get reassigned after 6 or 12 years. I think the moving of priests is generally a good thing - it keeps any individual parish from becoming the personal cult of the pastor. I know some families handle moving better than others - e.g. military families move all the time. But I wonder if having priests with families would cause the church to reconsider the wisdom of frequently reassigning priests.
Priests also tend to have very busy and irregular schedules - priests I know are on the go from morning to night, between saying Mass at multiple parishes, including prep time to write a homily, and meeting with people, spiritual direction, counseling, visiting the sick, sacramental prep, religious instruction, as well as managing the day-to-day operation of the parish, and are on call 24-7 in case of emergencies. So if priests were to have families, the church might have to demand a bit less time of each of them - which could perhaps work if this caused an increase in the total number of priests.
Also I think contributions to the church are down a bit - especially in areas where the church is growing, in places with lots of immigrants from Latin America or eastern Europe, who tend to (1) have less money to give, and (2) have a different sense from their home countries of what it requires to financially support the church. To get lots of people onboard with contributing maybe 3-5% of their income is not something that will happen overnight - probably a slow process of maybe 20-30 years to get large numbers of parishes operating this way. So I don’t know if the church is quite ready to financially support priests with families.
As far as diocesan priests - good points have been raised regarding insurance and moving and salary. I think moving around is a big deal - younger priests get moved around all the time, every 3-6 years, and most pastors get reassigned after 6 or 12 years. I think the moving of priests is generally a good thing - it keeps any individual parish from becoming the personal cult of the pastor. I know some families handle moving better than others - e.g. military families move all the time. But I wonder if having priests with families would cause the church to reconsider the wisdom of frequently reassigning priests.
Priests also tend to have very busy and irregular schedules - priests I know are on the go from morning to night, between saying Mass at multiple parishes, including prep time to write a homily, and meeting with people, spiritual direction, counseling, visiting the sick, sacramental prep, religious instruction, as well as managing the day-to-day operation of the parish, and are on call 24-7 in case of emergencies. So if priests were to have families, the church might have to demand a bit less time of each of them - which could perhaps work if this caused an increase in the total number of priests.
Also I think contributions to the church are down a bit - especially in areas where the church is growing, in places with lots of immigrants from Latin America or eastern Europe, who tend to (1) have less money to give, and (2) have a different sense from their home countries of what it requires to financially support the church. To get lots of people onboard with contributing maybe 3-5% of their income is not something that will happen overnight - probably a slow process of maybe 20-30 years to get large numbers of parishes operating this way. So I don’t know if the church is quite ready to financially support priests with families.
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frleo
Guest
It is important to note that, for diocesan priests, this varies from diocese to diocese. The IRS considers priests to be employed by the diocese/parish but SS considers priests to be self-employed. My diocese gives the priest a salary which is suppose to cover all of his SS contribution as well has his personal needs. The parish pays this salary plus the following benefits: room and board, most of our auto expenses are reimbursed, continuing education allowance, insurance (which is expensive when one considers the average age of the priests covered in our diocese), and retirement.
If priests were married, I could see the expenses to the parish increasing dramatically out of justice to allow the priest to support himself and his family. I am already covering 3 distinct parish communities spread over 7000 square miles. We have about 175 families on our books. Needless to say if I had a family, I would probably be spending all of my time in the central parish with the larger rectory since it would have room for a family. On the downside, the parish which is 70 miles away would only see me on Sundays for Mass and for an occasional meeting, even though it is the parish with the most members. They would be loosing the service of a priest that they can have today because I am celibate. I actually split the week between the two major communities so they can have the service of a priest. Even that sometimes causes grumbling because I am not spending time with one “parish family” because I am taking care of the other “family”. I can only imagine the tension if it were between a parish family and a biological family.
We hear about a lot of Protestant ministers who are married and have families and seem to do all right. I’d like to see the actual tracking of Protestant ministers who left the ministry after a few years because of the tension, the lack of financial support or the strain of trying to move the family to find a better position. We can track priests who have left the priesthood because the church keeps those types of records. This is not so for a lot of Protestant groups.
I wonder if the sterotype of a “preacher’s kid” is a result of making sure the kid knows what is right or wrong, but not spending the time with the kid to show true love in living out that right and wrong.
I have been in my parish for just over 6 years. Several of the other churches here have had two or three pastors in that time. Having family obligations makes it harder to serve remote rural areas. If your family wants to be close to a mall or the theater you have to try to fill that need which means you may be hesitant to take a remote assignment. (The closest mall to Jordan, Montana is 170 miles. It’s 240 miles from Circle)
If I remember correctly, Protesant ministers with families who become Catholic Priests are to be assigned to postitions other than pastors of parishes. The usual thought here I am sure is assignments to chaplaincy programs at institutions. I think this helps avoid the issue of caring for the parish family and the biological family.
Money might be a part of the issue, but I think that the good of the parish is sufficant reason to maintain the celibacy rule in the church.
I got started and did some rambling, but this is my :twocents: worth.
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puzzleannie
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It is also important to note that in most dioceses, the salary is exceedingly low, compared to what a Protestant minister in the same area makes, even with the living and travel expense reimbursements. SS and medi full contribution are deducted from his paycheck, there are also specific IRS requirements for clergy tax reporting. There is no way you could support a family on what they make, let alone send them to Catholic schools
Catholics must simply shut up about married priests unless and until they embrace tithing.
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frleo
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I forgot that I had even replied to this thread. A lot of thoughts got lost when the server was having troubles.
I would have to agree with the low salaries when compared to our Protestant brothers and sisters. Being in the Air Force Reserve, I got mobilized after 9/11. When I got my paycheck for my first 15 days, it was much higher than my **monthly **salary in the parish. When I attend conferences for reserve chaplains, I often hear from our friends on the other side of the house that they are concerned about loosing money when activated.
There is definitely a difference in perspective.
As an individual serving God I don’t need a lot, if you throw a family in, it would make a big difference.
As a side note, I think we need to work on tithing all around. It should not be seen, or promoted, as a possible way to support married clergy.
I would have to agree with the low salaries when compared to our Protestant brothers and sisters. Being in the Air Force Reserve, I got mobilized after 9/11. When I got my paycheck for my first 15 days, it was much higher than my **monthly **salary in the parish. When I attend conferences for reserve chaplains, I often hear from our friends on the other side of the house that they are concerned about loosing money when activated.
There is definitely a difference in perspective.
As an individual serving God I don’t need a lot, if you throw a family in, it would make a big difference.
As a side note, I think we need to work on tithing all around. It should not be seen, or promoted, as a possible way to support married clergy.
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