Priestly celibacy

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Joan89:
Although I am not fundamentally opposed to marriage in the priesthood, I recently heard an argument FOR the practice that I found very troubling. I wonder if anyone could give me some direction on arguments either for the intuition of this practice or opposing it that would be considered by the Church to be theologically sound ( I mean beyond the fact that St. Peter and some of the other apostles may have been married during their ministry)?

Thanks!
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Priestly celibacy isn’t a matter of faith or morality. It is a matter of discipline. As such, Priestly celibacy is neither theologically sound or theologically faulty. Priestly celibacy has both it’s good points and bad points. The lack of priestly celibacy has both good and bad points. The only real argument for or against priestly celibacy is the following:

Papa said so, therefore it must be so. 👍
 
I couldn’t grasp why priests were required to be celibate when I was younger. Now as a father of one, with one more on the way, I can grasp it just fine. Between paying rent, child/wifes doctor appointments, family vacations, t-ball, karate etc… I couldn’t imagine having to deal with other peoples problems.

This is from a Lutheran Church in my area (my wife was Lutheran):

The Rev. ********** came to ********* as interim pastor in November 1995. Today he is our permanent part-time pastor, which allows him to work weekdays as an Information Technology manager for an international travel and real estate company. The arrangement also works well for our congregation, which directs much of the day-to-day operations of the church property, ministries, and activities. As a result, our Church Council has become increasingly more self reliant in the administration of our church.

I can’t imagine being a Technology manager, AND leading a congregation and being able to address thie spiritual needs. I work as a Lead Technology Analyst, and I typically log anywhere between 70-90 hours a week. Plus the Pastor is married with children, what time could that leave for his congregation? But in the end I will defer to the Church to make the decision of priests marrying.
 
Our priest is an Ex-Episcopalean priest, married with two girls.

And he’s one of the staunchest advocates of priestly celibacy.

Notworthy

P.S. No, I will NOT insert a joke like, if you saw his wife, you’d preach celibacy, too! That would be just plain tacky and un-Christian!
 
Church Militant:
Since it is a discipline it could indeed change…then canon law would also change accordingly. I don’t see it happening, but that’s the case.

Canon law can and does change when needed…especially where church disciplines are concerned.
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I stand corrected and thank you Church Militant. I had been informed somewhere along the line that Canon Law could not be and would not be changed. Thank for setting me straight:)

I am wondering if you can give me a location and reference where it does state that canon law can be changed…I’d like to have it for future reference should it be needed. Grateful if you can help! Not really at all au fait on the ins and outs of Church Law.

Barb
PS I like your signature…there are times when I am tempted to think my Latin is not entirely woeful, which it is!:o
 
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Joan89:
Although I am not fundamentally opposed to marriage in the priesthood, I recently heard an argument FOR the practice that I found very troubling. I wonder if anyone could give me some direction on arguments either for the intuition of this practice or opposing it that would be considered by the Church to be theologically sound ( I mean beyond the fact that St. Peter and some of the other apostles may have been married during their ministry)?

Thanks!
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Jesus asked “those who could to be celibate and those who couldn’t not to”. The words of Jesus set up a sound reason don’t you think. I don’t remember what book or verse I’ll have to look.
 
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BryPGuy89:
Jesus asked “those who could to be celibate and those who couldn’t not to”. The words of Jesus set up a sound reason don’t you think. I don’t remember what book or verse I’ll have to look.
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These types of arguments seem to attempt to raise priestly celibacy to the level of dogma within the Church when it is nothing more than a discipline.

The Roman Church has some married men that have been ordained priests and one can not deny that the Byzantine Chruches have a tradition of ordaining married men to the priesthood.

There really is no argument for or against it, it just is, and all our arguments are nothing more than personal preference.
 
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Scholastic17:
Priestly celibacy isn’t a matter of faith or morality. It is a matter of discipline. As such, Priestly celibacy is neither theologically sound or theologically faulty. Priestly celibacy has both it’s good points and bad points. The lack of priestly celibacy has both good and bad points. The only real argument for or against priestly celibacy is the following:

Papa said so, therefore it must be so. 👍
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For theological soundness I would quote Luke 18:28-30 again, but you wouldn’t listen anyway. It might conflict with your preconceived notions. My how the culture of dissent doth flourish here at the forums as manifested by the irrational fixation on a married priesthood. At least you have something you and our seperated brethren can agree on. St. Francis of Assissi would kiss the sacred hands of celibate priest, so as far as I’m concerned Fathers not protestants know best.
 
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BryPGuy89:
Jesus asked “those who could to be celibate and those who couldn’t not to”. The words of Jesus set up a sound reason don’t you think. I don’t remember what book or verse I’ll have to look.
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Hi there BryPGuy89…is the quote you are looking for “some are made eunuchs for the Kingdom of God” which I have felt meant that some are given a gift of celibacy in order that they may concentrate fully on spiritual matters alone. Some are called to be leaven ‘in the world’…others are called to celibacy and the spiritual realm, which of course pervades all calls or vocations.

Barb:)
 
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ByzCath:
These types of arguments seem to attempt to raise priestly celibacy to the level of dogma within the Church when it is nothing more than a discipline.

The Roman Church has some married men that have been ordained priests and one can not deny that the Byzantine Chruches have a tradition of ordaining married men to the priesthood.

There really is no argument for or against it, it just is, and all our arguments are nothing more than personal preference.
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Jesus calls for celibacy in human beings as a whole not just priests. For any who can do so should do so from the words of Jesus himself.
 
But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. 33 But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided.
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This is a poor passage to use to try to biblically justify celibacy in the priesthood, when Paul was stating this, he wasn’t speaking about only ministers, he was saying this was good for EVERYONE…he would have prefered that NO CHRISTIANS marry and devote themselves to the Lord, he later says it’s better to Marry than to burn [with passion].

The Celibate priesthood is indeed a matter of discipline, not doctrine.
 
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BryPGuy89:
Jesus calls for celibacy in human beings as a whole not just priests. For any who can do so should do so from the words of Jesus himself.
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Actually I believe that Jesus calls for chastity according to our station in life. He does not call for celibacy of everyone.
 
BryPGuy89 said:
Jesus calls for celibacy in human beings as a whole not just priests. For any who can do so should do so from the words of Jesus himself.
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Do you really think he wanted the human race to die out quickly??
 
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Yerusalyim:
This is a poor passage to use to try to biblically justify celibacy in the priesthood, when Paul was stating this, he wasn’t speaking about only ministers, he was saying this was good for EVERYONE…he would have prefered that NO CHRISTIANS marry and devote themselves to the Lord, he later says it’s better to Marry than to burn [with passion].

The Celibate priesthood is indeed a matter of discipline, not doctrine.
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Where did I not basically say this? Why not have the people who are suppose to be the ones seperate from the secular world for God do what is seperate of the secular world, abstinance and celibacy, so on?
Celibacy is indeed a discipline, not doctrine, but there is nothing that can be said to counter the current requirement for it.
 
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ByzCath:
Actually I believe that Jesus calls for chastity according to our station in life. He does not call for celibacy of everyone.
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No actual celibacy for all that can discipline themselves for such read the Bible more, I get a lot of exposure to it from reading it myself and the protestant church my parents go to, sometimes I go with them, though I don’t like it. He does call for celibacy from those who can actually do it like my friend in an earlier post said, if they burn with passion then they should marry not live celibately. Then it is chastity for them, but celibacy for me and others.
 
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thistle:
Do you really think he wanted the human race to die out quickly??
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My friend please, for one most humans are not Christian, even though most religious groups have their religious clergy to live celibate. Plus most can’t discipline themselves to such extremes, so thus they should marry, that is what leads to abuse cases, when undisciplined people try to force it on themselves, and eventually sin and lust overtakes their control.
 
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BryPGuy89:
My friend please, for one most humans are not Christian, even though most religious groups have their religious clergy to live celibate. Plus most can’t discipline themselves to such extremes, so thus they should marry, that is what leads to abuse cases, when undisciplined people try to force it on themselves, and eventually sin and lust overtakes their control.
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Until you can show that there are no abuse cases among the married clergy, THIS ARGUMENT IS FALSE! Or even if you can show that the number of abuses is significantly lower, which you can’t!

Notworthy
 
It is ironic that the issue of priestly celibacy is most often debated by lay people who don’t have nearly the stake in this that actual Priests do.

This is either because
  1. It is a non-issue for most clergy men.
  2. They are already too busy to spend their time trumping this cause, which in itself, lends supportto the celibacy.
I wonder why the deaconate, which allows for marriage post becoming a Deacon, is not overflowing with members?? Surely, if celibacy is such a hot topic, the Deaconate would be full of men who sought marriage…
 
BryPGuy -
Don’t you believe that some are called to marriage? You seem to make it sound like marriage is only for those who aren’t strong enough to live the call of celibacy.

I believe (and I think it is Church teaching, too) that some are called to marriage and should live that call; while others are called to celibacy and should live that call.

Someone please help us find out what the church teaches on this?

Another thing is when you say not everyone is Christian so that’s where the human race is going to survive from. If that was the case then 1) all the Christians would die out and 2) the human race would still die out if everyone became Christian - but God desires everyone to be Christian so how can that work?

I’ve read plenty (in fact, I think even in the CCC) about how we shouldn’t put down the call to marriage, because by seeing marriage as not a good thing it actually doesn’t give enough respect to those who have followed the path of celibacy - what’s so great about taking the path of celibacy if it is the only alternative to something which is bad or only for the weak? But celibacy is truly great because marriage is a good thing and it is hard to choose celibacy over it, so it is a good and strong thing for those who are called to it to do.

I’ll share something I read in a completely different thread (it was about homosexuality) that seems to be relevant here. “It doesn’t take a genius to realise that man and woman are made for each other.”

It seems like you are reading some bits of the bible but not others. How much does God talk about “no longer being two but one flesh”? How many times does God actually plan marriages? Go read the book of Tobit - it’s not likely to be in your parents’ bible as it is a deuterocanonical, you might need to look it up on the net. God actually sends the angel Raphael to make sure a marriage that has been planned goes through smoothly and that the couple aren’t affected by a demon on their first night.

Perhaps these Protestants are warping your brain. If you were born in '89 then maybe you still have the duty of obedience to your parents (still, doesn’t sound that fair for them to be forcing you to go to Protestant services) but once you can get away from there, do so, so that you stop letting them tell you what they think the bible says, and let the Catholic Church teach you what the real truth is.
 
Has there ever been an anonymous poll of actual clergy members who live this discipline? It seems that many who don’t live it have very strong feelings on the matter, I am curious how those who actually live the discipline feel about it.
 
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