Priests and marriage - more Biblical than not

[SyroMalankara]

Right.
I always find it interesting that lay people always think this is great an innovative idea…but the priests and men in formation??? not so much.

I don’t see how this is a concern, if one doesn’t wish to marry, so be it. There are many thousand Eastern monks - all celibate. All Eastern bishops are celibate. No one stops anyone from being celibate. This is not an either/or.

 

[pianistclare]

I don’t see how this is a concern, if one doesn’t wish to marry, so be it. There are many thousand Eastern monks - all celibate. All Eastern bishops are celibate. No one stops anyone from being celibate. This is not an either/or.

Again, no one is criticizing the Eastern discipline, or even talking about them per se.
All I’m saying is none of the priests I have ever worked for (and they are a large number) have ever said “gee I wish I could have gotten married”. That says to me that it’s not an issue at all.
Unsubscribing.

 

[catholictiger]

Markie, keep in mind that this is a discipline and not a dogma or doctrine, so there are always possible exception to this discipline of the Roman Rite.

However, I have a blog article that should help you with this.

Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!

I made this point earlier but I think it bears repeating.

The requirement of Roman Catholic Priests to be celibate (with exceptions) is a discipline. But celibacy for the kingdom is a practice that was founded by Jesus Christ and is not a discipline.

I believe 98% of the time when a man is called to the priesthood he is also called by God to celibacy. The obvious exception are those priests who may have converted, we have in my diocese married clergy (there was an episcopal priest who converted.) There is also a situation where someone may be called to live celibacy the rest of his life, but not life-long celibacy. We have a handful of seminarians who’s wife passed away and God called him to seminary. My diocese just ordained a Priest who was a permanent deacon and when his wife passed he joined the seminary.

The requirement of celibacy for priests sure is a discipline, but be careful when you say that because it makes it sound like it is just a rule. This is far from the case. God calls men to celibacy and the priesthood. He doesn’t call men to the priesthood and because the Church says so they are celibate. So while technically priestly celibacy is a discipline of the Church, it is a discipline that has roots in Christ’s own words. “Some are made eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom.”

Note: I know we agree but I think there needs to be a bigger emphasis on this long tradition of the Church. Sure we could change this discipline, but there is a better chance of being struck by lightning than the Church changing this discipline.

one more post, I thought this weekend’s readings fit this thread. You cannot serve two masters, you will love one and hate the other, you will be devoted to one and despise the other. While yes there are married priests, they live a very difficult life. (not saying it isn’t doable.) But a priest loves the Church and is completely devoted to the Church, a Husband loves his wife and is completely devoted to his wife. Imagine a situation where a parishioner is dying and you get a call asking for the anointing of the sick, but currently your 12-year-old son is sick with the flu, your wife is on a business trip. Do you leave your son at home alone and anoint the dying person, or do you anoint the dying person and care for your sick child.

I don’t think a married priest would hate his wife and love his church, but asking one man to give himself fully to his family and the Church is asking way too much. Maybe there are men who can give themselves in this way, but I would suspect the majority of men can’t.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I don’t see how this is a concern, if one doesn’t wish to marry, so be it. There are many thousand Eastern monks - all celibate. All Eastern bishops are celibate. No one stops anyone from being celibate. This is not an either/or.

It is wonderful that the Churches of the East have their own hierarchy, their own Code of Canon Law, their own liturgical life, and their own customs…which is what they should follow – within the confines of their own tradition.

 

[Markie_Boy]

We can all apply our opinions, and that’s a good thing.

But, I see some places Catholic priests can be married, so it’s very workable.

I’ll plainly state again - if Jesus gave the keys to a married man, should we withhold what He permitted? Especially if this is not an dogma of the church.

Where I am at there is a priest shortage, and larger shortage of ones that really connect with people. When things go wrong I often wonder if it’s because we are not following what he set for us?

 

[SyroMalankara]

It is wonderful that the Churches of the East have their own hierarchy, their own Code of Canon Law, their own liturgical life, and their own customs…which is what they should follow – within the confines of their own tradition.

May God deem it so! Unfortunately, these days many of thr Eastern Catholic Churches follow a mix of canons that are somewhat Latin imports and others Eastern, copy Latin liturgical devotions instead of their own, borrow Roman customs and ignore Eastern ones and other strange practices.

As to married Latin Church priests, I dont see the normative discipline changing. Exceptions can and are made as needed. That seems to be what is in the near future.

 

[catholictiger]

We can all apply our opinions, and that’s a good thing.

But, I see some places Catholic priests can be married, so it’s very workable.

I’ll plainly state again - if Jesus gave the keys to a married man, should we withhold what He permitted? Especially if this is not an dogma of the church.

Where I am at there is a priest shortage, and larger shortage of ones that really connect with people. When things go wrong I often wonder if it’s because we are not following what he set for us?

Where does it say that Christ gave the keys to a married man?

LINK

But don’t look past the example of St. Paul

I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.

St Paul remained unmarried.

Let me lastly say this, celibacy was something radical for the jews. Not even their high priests remained unmarried. They had to abstain from sexual relations 3 days before entering the temple but unlike Priests now they didn’t go into the temple every day. Christ’s call to celibacy for the kingdom was radical at the time. It would make sense that he didn’t only call single men who were never married. But we see examples of some of his own disciples living the celibate life. (aka St. Paul.) I believe more than just St. Paul were unmarried but I’m no expert on this matter.

 

[Wesrock]

I’ll plainly state again - if Jesus gave the keys to a married man, should we withhold what He permitted? Especially if this is not an dogma of the church.

And if even Orthodox tradition holds that Saint Peter and his wife lived dedicated celibacy after following Christ? There is also this tradition regarding the other Apostles.

I mean, it could change, and what Saint Peter did may not be the “be all, end all” for the discussion, but you seem to be ignoring the other half of the equation here.

 

[Duane1966]

That’s a great way to view things, and I have a deep respect for it.

I do have to say that Jesus could have chosen to give the Keys of the Kingdom to anyone - an he chose to give them to a married man. One could argue that to totally follow his lead would be to only allow married men.

I think that leaving the option open is very reasonable, and if Jesus thought it was a good idea to give the keys to a married man, so do I!

Was Peter’s still having marital relations with his wife? Was she still alive? There is a clue in the bible that seems to say no to the first. From Mark:

28Peter began to say to him, “We have given up everything and followed you.” 29

Doesn’t giving up everything include the wife, or was she dead?

If you say Paul writes that Peter took his wife with him, you run into the Adelphaen Gunaika translation controversy: catholic.com/magazine/articles/did-peter-have-a-wife Chrysostom, a native speaker of Greek, flat out translated that combination of words as sister woman. He held that the Apostles really left everything, including wives. Incontinence, for the priesthood, he taught was handed down from Jesus and the Apostles.

Sure seems like following the example of the high priest Jesus, is the way the Church should go. Unless you feel He was married.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

The other day on EWTN I heard a nun speaking about her decision to become a nun…Well, she went on to say that it was a difficult decision because it meant she would never be a mother. But after praying about it, the Lord had revealed to her that she would still be a mother…a mother of many precious souls as she lives the consecrated life to the Lord.

The building up of the kingdom is always more important than our own selfish ambitions. The unity of the traditional family is beautiful and given to us by God…however, if God is calling you to the consecrated life, you should answer the call.

So while I sort of wish the Church would offer the option for priests to marry, I most definitely understand the benefits of the celibate life.

 

[po18guy]

Why seek to take the gift of celibacy away from those who have given themselves to Christ, and are an alter Christus? Why be upset over living conditions that others have embraced with joy? It is observable human nature that many are outraged at something they are not subject to, while those subject to it are at peace.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Why seek to take the gift of celibacy away from those who have given themselves to Christ, and are an alter Christus? Why be upset over living conditions that others have embraced with joy? It is observable human nature that many are outraged at something they are not subject to, while those subject to it are at peace.

Yes to this! ^

Also, to the OP: A celibate priest is able to give himself to his flock and be a father to them in a way that is just not possible with a married man, particularly a married man with a family. The longer you are a Catholic and spend time with priests, I think you will understand better why the Church asks this commitment of them. In a world obsessed with sex, the radical commitment of celibacy stands as a powerful Christian witness.

As to making it general “option” in the Latin Rite, it wouldn’t work that way. Any time the Church has made certain disciplines “optional” in recent decades, everyone perceives the practice as done away with and no one does it any more (e.g., abstaining from meat on Fridays). We would lose a tradition that is beautiful and deeply Catholic, and people would realize only too late what a gift it was to have a celibate priesthood.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

See this Catholic Answers article: Why a Celibate Priesthood?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The other day on EWTN I heard a nun speaking about her decision to become a nun…Well, she went on to say that it was a difficult decision because it meant she would never be a mother. But after praying about it, the Lord had revealed to her that she would still be a mother…a mother of many precious souls as she lives the consecrated life to the Lord.

The building up of the kingdom is always more important than our own selfish ambitions. The unity of the traditional family is beautiful and given to us by God…however, if God is calling you to the consecrated life, you should answer the call.

So while I sort of wish the Church would offer the option for priests to marry, I most definitely understand the benefits of the celibate life.

The male counterpart to a nun, however, is not a priest. It is a monk or a friar.

The male counterpart to a Sister is not a priest. It is a Brother who is a member of an active Congregation of Religious or Society of Apostolic Life.

The diocesan clergy do not belong to an Institute of Perfection. Those who are called to consecrated life are distinct from those called to priesthood and diaconate…who themselves may or may not be called to an Institute of Perfection.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Why seek to take the gift of celibacy away from those who have given themselves to Christ, and are an alter Christus? Why be upset over living conditions that others have embraced with joy? It is observable human nature that many are outraged at something they are not subject to, while those subject to it are at peace.

I beg your pardon? How is the question at hand to seek to take the gift of celibacy away from those who have given themselves to Christ?

For those of us who are already ordained, the ontological character constitutes an impediment to contracting marriage. No one is “taking away the gift of celibacy” for anyone.

The question is the advantage of making it possible for those who are married to be ordained…not for the ordained to get married, for which there would be significant issues.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

I beg your pardon? How is the question at hand to seek to take the gift of celibacy away from those who have given themselves to Christ?

For those of us who are already ordained, the ontological character constitutes an impediment to contracting marriage. No one is “taking away the gift of celibacy” for anyone.

The question is the advantage of making it possible for those who are married to be ordained…not for the ordained to get married, for which there would be significant issues.

Just out of curiosity, can priests marry after they retire if they wish?

Thanks, Father.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Just out of curiosity, can priests marry after they retire if they wish?

Thanks, Father.

Not unless they petition for and are granted laicisation through a rescript of the Holy See.

The vow pronounced by a priest who is a Religious or the solemn promise of celibacy made by a transitional deacon en route to priesthood is lifelong.

 

[Markie_Boy]

The other day on EWTN I heard a nun speaking about her decision to become a nun…Well, she went on to say that it was a difficult decision because it meant she would never be a mother. But after praying about it, the Lord had revealed to her that she would still be a mother…a mother of many precious souls as she lives the consecrated life to the Lord.

The building up of the kingdom is always more important than our own selfish ambitions. The unity of the traditional family is beautiful and given to us by God…however, if God is calling you to the consecrated life, you should answer the call.

So while I sort of wish the Church would offer the option for priests to marry, I most definitely understand the benefits of the celibate life.

Well put! That is all I am saying. If Jesus was OK with the option so should we be.

 

[phil19034]

Priests are doing this, married men are priests in Catholicism, Orthodoxy and the Assyrian Church already. The married priests I know, their wives are extremely supportive, work a recent paying job with health and benefits, and don’t need much money or financial support, mainly prayers

But the Eastern Churches are different. There typically isn’t a daily Divine Liturgy. Typically, there is only one Liturgy on Sunday. The Parish sizes are typically smaller too. It’s not typical for an Eastern Church to have 5 Liturgies on Sunday with hundreds (if not 1000) people at each Liturgy.

Also, Eastern Churches are used to supporting a priest’s family, and the infrastructure is built to support that.

For the Latin Church, seminary alone would be VERY difficult for a married man and his family.

For the Latin Church, theology aside, there are many logistical reasons why the Church can’t dump celibacy.

HOWEVER, I do believe that we might see a day when some retired Permanent Deacons might be able to become ordained as Priests, even if their wife is still living. I can see some becoming ordained to become “Weekend Assistants” and to fill in part time wherever the Bishop needs them: helping with Sunday Mass, picking up a daily mass here or there, picking up an occasional wedding or funeral mass, helping with confessions, etc. They would not receive any financial benefits that normal priests do, they would be exactly the same as the Permanent Deacons, but that they can hear Confessions, Pray the Mass, etc.

This would ONLY work if it’s rare, and limited to Permanent Deacons who have been a Deacon for X number of years and with no children at home. A scenario like the one I presented is the only way (besides the current exceptions) I would be OK with Married men becoming Priests in the Latin Church.

God Bless

 

[Church_Militant]

Note: I know we agree but I think there needs to be a bigger emphasis on this long tradition of the Church. Sure we could change this discipline, but there is a better chance of being struck by lightning than the Church changing this discipline.

one more post, I thought this weekend’s readings fit this thread. You cannot serve two masters, you will love one and hate the other, you will be devoted to one and despise the other. While yes there are married priests, they live a very difficult life. (not saying it isn’t doable.) But a priest loves the Church and is completely devoted to the Church, a Husband loves his wife and is completely devoted to his wife. Imagine a situation where a parishioner is dying and you get a call asking for the anointing of the sick, but currently your 12-year-old son is sick with the flu, your wife is on a business trip. Do you leave your son at home alone and anoint the dying person, or do you anoint the dying person and care for your sick child.

I don’t think a married priest would hate his wife and love his church, but asking one man to give himself fully to his family and the Church is asking way too much. Maybe there are men who can give themselves in this way, but I would suspect the majority of men can’t.

I completely agree and I cite that passage from Our Lord in my linked article above.

Some people try to portray priestly celibacy as unbiblical which, as my article makes very clear it is not.

It is by the mandate of Jesus Christ Himself that the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church maintains this discipline and I rejoice in being part of the Body of Christ that encourages and makes the choice the regular form of Holy Orders.

I’m not faulting those rites that do differently, but we must never play down the wonderful gift that our celibate priesthood is for us all.

We can all apply our opinions

, and that’s a good thing.

But, I see some places Catholic priests can be married, so it’s very workable.

I’ll plainly state again - if Jesus gave the keys to a married man, should we withhold what He permitted? Especially if this is not an dogma of the church.So then how do you reconcile your thinking with the words of Christ and St. Paul?

Where I am at there is a priest shortage, and larger shortage of ones that really connect with people. When things go wrong I often wonder if it’s because we are not following what he set for us?

Have you considered that that shortage may entail a call to a priestly vocation for you personally?