Priest's clothing

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Mt_28_19_20 said:
Those are some fancy outfits. Why so fancy? Those gloves are quite the look as well!
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Ah, this is an important event at the Seminary. Of course the Ferraiuolo is not ordinary wear- for the ICRSS, the priests and seminarians wear a plain cassock most of the time.

Just look at some of these amazing pictures from a Pontifical High Mass celebrated by Archbishop Burke of St. Louis- Pontifical Mass pics. His Grace is a great supporter of the traditional Mass, even at the Diocesan level, and is one of the most orthodox bishops in the United States. His work has earned for the Archdiocese of St. Louis an abundance of vocations. He will be ordaining two priests for the ICRSS in June in the Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis- the first time in many years that ordinations in the traditional Rite will be held in the United States.

This picture of the elevation of the Host just blew me away

http://www.institute-christ-king.org/StLouis/images/IMG_3683.JPG
 
Caesar said:
Ah, this is an important event at the Seminary. Of course the Ferraiuolo is not ordinary wear- for the ICRSS, the priests and seminarians wear a plain cassock most of the time.

Just look at some of these amazing pictures from a Pontifical High Mass celebrated by Archbishop Burke of St. Louis- Pontifical Mass pics. His Grace is a great supporter of the traditional Mass, even at the Diocesan level, and is one of the most orthodox bishops in the United States. His work has earned for the Archdiocese of St. Louis an abundance of vocations. He will be ordaining two priests for the ICRSS in June in the Cathedral Basilica of St. Louis- the first time in many years that ordinations in the traditional Rite will be held in the United States.

This picture of the elevation of the Host just blew me away

http://www.institute-christ-king.org/StLouis/images/IMG_3683.JPG
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John 4:23 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.”

And some will worship in fancy outfits.

1 Timothy 2:7-10 "For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension. Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

So, if women making a claim to godliness are to adorn themselves “with proper clothing, modestly, and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works”, is there a double standard for men?

Michael
 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
John 4:23 “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.”

And some will worship in fancy outfits.

1 Timothy 2:7-10 "For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension. Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness.

So, if women making a claim to godliness are to adorn themselves “with proper clothing, modestly, and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works”, is there a double standard for men?

Michael
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Is it wrong to make the Divine Liturgy of the Church beautiful so as to stir in the hearts and minds of the faithful an intense love and sense of awe, and to underscore the nature of the Holy Eucharist? Is it so wrong to make the clergy distinct, so as to show their place in the Church as those who have the power to administer the Sacraments, especialy the Eucharist?

Did not God command Moses to outfit the priests in distinctive garments (notably the jeweled breastplate of Aaron) to show their important station as those who perform the sacrifices of the Temple?
 
Caesar said:
Is it wrong to make the Divine Liturgy of the Church beautiful so as to stir in the hearts and minds of the faithful an intense love and sense of awe, and to underscore the nature of the Holy Eucharist? Is it so wrong to make the clergy distinct, so as to show their place in the Church as those who have the power to administer the Sacraments, especialy the Eucharist?

Did not God command Moses to outfit the priests in distinctive garments (notably the jeweled breastplate of Aaron) to show their important station as those who perform the sacrifices of the Temple?
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And Mark 14:3-9

Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Why treat him any differently? Only the best for Jesus.

Catholig
 
Ok, just to get back on topic…

If anyone here is elevated to Bishop someday, I urge you to get one of these:

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The Cappa Magna! This pic is another from the ICRSS. This is Alfons Cardinal Stickler at the Gricigliano Seminary. Also take notice of the choir dress of the ICRSS- the senior priests of the Institute are wearing the full blue choir dress of St. Francis de Sales (one of the three major patrons of the ICRSS), while other priests are wearing the partial blue choir dress- is of course is reserved for special occaisions.

And here is another picture of His Eminence Cardinal Stickler, with some Italian nobleman I believe:

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Catholig said:
And Mark 14:3-9

Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist. Why treat him any differently? Only the best for Jesus.

Catholig
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Indeed. And the Altar is His throne- and looking at the High Altar of St. Francis de Sales Oratory (in my pic above), what better throne for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? 😃
 
Caesar said:
Indeed. And the Altar is His throne- and looking at the High Altar of St. Francis de Sales Oratory (in my pic above), what better throne for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords? 😃
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St. Francis de Sales Oratory…Named after my Patron Saint 😉

Catholig
 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
Yes, for Jesus. Not us.
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Okay, well the priests are wearing their “Sunday Best” 😃 for Our Lord. I don’t see any harm in them liking the liturgical dress - I’d much prefer them in that than flip flops and a t-shirt.

Catholig
 
Oh, and dont forget one of my favorites- the Cope!

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Now, St. Pius is wearing the Papal mantle, which is longer then an ordinary cope and the clasp is richely adorned as you can see.

Now this is a more ordinary cope, if a little plain:

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Caesar said:
Is it wrong to make the Divine Liturgy of the Church beautiful so as to stir in the hearts and minds of the faithful an intense love and sense of awe, and to underscore the nature of the Holy Eucharist? Is it so wrong to make the clergy distinct, so as to show their place in the Church as those who have the power to administer the Sacraments, especialy the Eucharist?

Did not God command Moses to outfit the priests in distinctive garments (notably the jeweled breastplate of Aaron) to show their important station as those who perform the sacrifices of the Temple?
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Caesar, I agree. I want my priests to look like priests. They have a vocation and have received a Sacrament that I have not, and can not. The Mass IS something special. We, along with our priest, are offering a Sacrifice to God the Father. The priest is necessary in order to offer Christ as a sacrifice. We are offering along with the priest. This is true worship, the Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass is special, and it is right that the priest should wear special vestments and clothing to show that he is “persona Christi”. Even when he is not saying Mass, I like to see a priest wearing clerical attire. Who knows when I may need the Sacrament of Penance. If a priest is dressed in clerical attire and I need the Sacrament of Penance, I will know that I should approach him. Priests should be proud of their vocation and always let the laity know that they are priests by their actions and by their dress.
 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
Sometimes we pay more attention to the look.

What do we think Jesus wore as He taught? Fancy colorful clothing with a nice hat? I missed the Chrism Mass this year, though remember the last one I attended and was surprised at the glimmer of some of the hats being worn by some of the senior priests. Almost looked like a costume party. As the Baptist taught us, He most increase, and we must decrease.

Michael
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You’re right. It is important for a priest to never forget that he is acting for Christ. And that it is Christ, not the priest, that is the most important. At the same time, the priest must be able to reach the people. If that means dressing fancy to attract the fancy, or dressing “cool” to attract the teens, then why not? As long as the priest still remembers why he does what he does and does not make himself the center, but Christ, then it is all good. St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:22 “…I have become all things to all, to save at least some.”
 
tkdnick said:
You’re right. It is important for a priest to never forget that he is acting for Christ. And that it is Christ, not the priest, that is the most important. At the same time, the priest must be able to reach the people. If that means dressing fancy to attract the fancy, or dressing “cool” to attract the teens, then why not? As long as the priest still remembers why he does what he does and does not make himself the center, but Christ, then it is all good. St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:22 “…I have become all things to all, to save at least some.”
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If the message and worship are centered on Christ, God the Father, and Holy Spirit, and Christ-like love for one another, that is what attacts people to the truth. If we try to attact people to a message by dressing fancy, or cool, when do we divert the attention from the look to Christ? No where in the Gospels or Acts of the Apostles do we see focus on fancy or cool to make the gospel message known.

Michael
 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
If the message and worship are centered on Christ, God the Father, and Holy Spirit, and Christ-like love for one another, that is what attacts people to the truth. If we try to attact people to a message by dressing fancy, or cool, when do we divert the attention from the look to Christ? No where in the Gospels or Acts of the Apostles do we see focus on fancy or cool to make the gospel message known.

Michael
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Michael, I think the whole “make the church more common” argument is rubbish. Why is tradition so bad? It doesn’t stop charity, does it? It is simply putting your best foot forward for Christ. Or outside of the Mass to show authority. Priests should look like priests, bishops like bishiops, cardinals like cardinals, and the pope like a pope.

Catholig
 
Catholig said:
Michael, I think the whole “make the church more common” argument is rubbish. Why is tradition so bad? It doesn’t stop charity, does it? It is simply putting your best foot forward for Christ. Or outside of the Mass to show authority. Priests should look like priests, bishops like bishiops, cardinals like cardinals, and the pope like a pope.

Catholig
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Who says tradition is bad? I am saying fancy ornate hats, fancy colorful robes run the risk of focusing more attention on individuals, and less on Christ.

What is our best foot forward? Pomp and show, or the message, lived in word and deed? Who needs a show of authority outside of Mass? People don’t know God is in charge and that we make up the body of Christ, priest and laity together? Catholics should ACT like Catholics whether laity, priest, bishop, cardinal, and Pope. If that is not going on, look means nothing. If that is going on, ornate will not matter. We are to be humble of heart, all of us. Not dressing to impress. Dressing with respect for God, and one another. A fancy glittering hat that looks like a crown by a priest who is not the bishop or cardinal does not seem right, in my opinion.

Michael
 
Now as for chasubles, I prefer the Fiddleback or Roman chasuble, although there are some nice Gothic chasubles out there.

Now this is a nice one, worn by Pope Benedict (although judging by his zuccheto this picture was taken while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger)

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And this chasuble here is quite nice, and the dalmatics are simply amazing. Notice also the delicate lace alb- while I think many lace albs are sometimes way over-done, this one isnt too bad and goes well with the other vestments.

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And this one is from Westminister Cathedral in England. Recently, the Cathedral has brought back a curious medieval tradition of installing the lead choir boy as the “boy Bishop” on the Feast of St. Gregory the Great every year. Notice the spectacular chasuble worn by the priest to the left.

 
Mt_28_19_20 said:
Who says tradition is bad? I am saying fancy ornate hats, fancy colorful robes run the risk of focusing more attention on individuals, and less on Christ.

What is our best foot forward? Pomp and show, or the message, lived in word and deed? Who needs a show of authority outside of Mass? People don’t know God is in charge and that we make up the body of Christ, priest and laity together? Catholics should ACT like Catholics whether laity, priest, bishop, cardinal, and Pope. If that is not going on, look means nothing. If that is going on, ornate will not matter. We are to be humble of heart, all of us. Not dressing to impress. Dressing with respect for God, and one another. A fancy glittering hat that looks like a crown by a priest who is not the bishop or cardinal does not seem right, in my opinion.

Michael
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Since when does a normal priest wear anything resembling a crown? Miters are reserved for Bishops; the Triple Tiara is reserved for the Sovereign Pontiff. A priest may only wear a simple black biretta.
 
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