Priests Get In Brawl Outside Christianity's Holiest Shrine

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This is unbelievable, what do they think the kind of witness this will show to the non-Christians in the region? If the Greek Orthodox and Franciscans can’t get along over the Holy Sepulchre, as a Catholic I say let the Franciscans pull out of there no matter who’s fault it was for this Brawl. But then again it seems everybody else is fighting over something over there, goes with the territory I guess. Though absolutely pathetic, and very sad…😦

Read here wftv.com/newsofthestrange/3763065/detail.html:banghead:
 
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Catholic29:
This is unbelievable, what do they think the kind of witness this will show to the non-Christians in the region? If the Greek Orthodox and Franciscans can’t get along over the Holy Sepulchre, as a Catholic I say let the Franciscans pull out of there no matter who’s fault it was for this Brawl. But then again it seems everybody else is fighting over something over there, goes with the territory I guess. Though absolutely pathetic, and very sad…😦

Read here wftv.com/newsofthestrange/3763065/detail.html:banghead:
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This is the second time this has occurred in two or three years and while I don’t recommend it - if you think this is bad, never read up on some of the early church councils. Those old boys took things pretty seriously. :o
 
It’s hard to know whether to laugh or cry. When I picture the spectacle of clerics cuffing each other it is a bit comedic, yet when I think of the rest of the cynical world observing the action, there is very little Christian charity to be seen from either side. And isn’t it ironic that it is the Jewish police that end up mediating and/or separating the Christian combatants.
 
We are not there. We do not know what the “agreements” were hammered out over the past centuries. We do not know if the Greeks intentionally did something to offend the Francicans or if it was an accident. I doubt it was an “accident”. These boys know what they are doing.

For Franciscans to be drawn into a fist fight - they had to have been mightily PROVOKED.
 
Get 'erm boys!!! 😉
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You may laugh, but I won’t. The sight of clerics cuffing it out on the street may be funny at first glance, but this is actually quite serious.

So why not just give the rest of the shrine to the Greeks? As I understand it the Franciscans(Roman Catholics) have just a very small section of it.
 
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Exporter:
We are not there. We do not know what the “agreements” were hammered out over the past centuries. We do not know if the Greeks intentionally did something to offend the Francicans or if it was an accident. I doubt it was an “accident”. These boys know what they are doing.

For Franciscans to be drawn into a fist fight - they had to have been mightily PROVOKED.
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Your last sentence is quite reasonable. Franciscans are simply not the kind of people who would willingly go into a fistfight, unless they were forced to do so. However, we are not in a position to judge the incident itself since we weren’t there.

Gerry 🙂
 
If you believe that was violent, the Catholic encyclopedia gives an acount of the violence in Rome in 418 A.D during the elections for a successor to Pope St. Zosimus (417-18):

** Just after Zosimus’s obsequies, 27 December, 418, a faction of the Roman clergy consisting principally of deacons ****seized the Lateran basilica and elected as pope the Archdeacon Eulalius. The higher clergy tried to enter, but were violently repulsed by a mob of adherents of the Eulalian party. On the following day they met in the church of Theodora and elected as pope, much against his will, the aged Boniface, a priest highly esteemed for his charity, learning, and good character… **

Gerry 🙂
 
When you look back in history, you’ll see that such disputes, violent and otherwise, were very common. Heresies were popping up all over the place, especially in the East where the Byzantine emperors generally took a much more hands-on role in church government. For example, the most serious of the early heresies was Arianism, started by a Greek priest from Alexandria. The heresy split the Church for many years. In fact, at certain times because of political pressure, the majority of bishops were Arians. It took truly courageous men like St. Athanasius to counteract Arius and his followers. There was much violence and persecutions on both sides. A good argument can be made that these heresies weakened the Church to such an extent that Islam was able to spread very rapidly throughout the East and northern Africa. Such scandal among Christians certainly makes it much more difficult to evangelize non-Christians. Can you imagine being a Jewish or Moslem Israeli and watching those who preach the love of Christ duking it out as the result of celebrating a church liturgy? Devastating!
 
Can you imagine being a Jewish or Moslem Israeli and watching those who preach the love of Christ duking it out as the result of celebrating a church liturgy? Devastating!
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larryo, precisely why this is so serious, particularly for the cause of evangelization…
 
Whoever is at fault here no longer matters. It is a bad advertisement for Christians.

Gerry 🙂
 
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Exporter:
We are not there. We do not know what the “agreements” were hammered out over the past centuries. We do not know if the Greeks intentionally did something to offend the Francicans or if it was an accident. I doubt it was an “accident”. These boys know what they are doing.

For Franciscans to be drawn into a fist fight - they had to have been mightily PROVOKED.
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Exporter,

I think it’s more than a bit uncharitable to presume that it was the Greek monks who initiated the incident. My personal opinion is that, regardless of who initiated it - and I am more than willing to place the potential for blame on either side - it is a sad commentary on men whose lives are dedicated to God that they engaged in a fight on holy ground, upon which their Lord was interred. The superiors of both communities should take swift disciplinary action upon their members.

Many years,

Neil
 
Irish Melkite:
Exporter,

I think it’s more than a bit uncharitable to presume that it was the Greek monks who initiated the incident. My personal opinion is that, regardless of who initiated it - and I am more than willing to place the potential for blame on either side - it is a sad commentary on men whose lives are dedicated to God that they engaged in a fight on holy ground, upon which their Lord was interred. The superiors of both communities should take swift disciplinary action upon their members.

Many years,

Neil
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I agree. Those who took part in this brawl should be disciplined. I think it is absolutely PATHETIC that this happened at all, regardless of who the instigators were. Maybe they should have a public reconciliation…
 
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Benignus:
I agree. Those who took part in this brawl should be disciplined. I think it is absolutely PATHETIC that this happened at all, regardless of who the instigators were. Maybe they should have a public reconciliation…
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Once when my oldest boys had a fight I made them stay in their room until they could come out and do a dance and sing a tune with their arms around each other. They were in there a while, but they came out and did it.🙂

They’re too big for me to try to pull something like that now.:eek:

Alan
 
For what it’s worth, I have personally been pushed forceably by a priest of the Greek Orthodox community that controls the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. This happened while being in line to enter the site of the Nativity, and he wanted me to get out of the way for others who had come later.

It was rather weird since he was a good deal taller than I and about three or maybe even four times my weight. The whole thing seemed at the time (and still does), rather surreal. It happened to be Pentecost Sunday, too. Really odd. :whacky:

I didn’t have to let the others in, as it turned out. The people surrounding me, realizing what was happening, moved together and sort of formed a cordon. I think he was upset with our group, as we were saying a Rosay while waiting our turn, and he told us to keep quiet. Then, when the later-comers arrived, he attempted to push us away!

Pray always! 🙂

Anna
 
I read only the one report from the link that was posted here. If it is true, then it seems that the Franciscans acted in self-defense.

I’m not condoning fighting, especially between those who call themselves Christian, but I’m inclined to believe that the Franciscans were provoked and were trying to defend themselves. I went to Franciscan schools all the way through high school and I have to say that every Franciscan I’ve ever known tried to follow the gentle example of their founder. In my wildest dreams I can’t imagine them starting a fight.
 
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