Priests having access to children in the first place

[Lara]

I don’t understand how the sexually sinning priests in Philadelphia or anywhere else got so much access to children? Wouldn’t it be only altar servers? But altar servers are only there a bit before and after Mass.

Can some of the older people on the forum please help by saying the amount of time your own children spent alone with a priest years ago? Did parents back then ask their kids if they had any trouble with their teachers or priests? Did kids years ago go to their parents when something bad was happening?

I’m genuine in my request for information. I’m not blaming the parents of abused kids. I really don’t understand how offending priests got access. Weren’t parents allowed to go with their kids to the retreats for altar servers or summer camps?

 

[kgmlg]

Well, if it helps, the abuser I knew was first in charge of the school catechesis, so the kids were “alone” with him a lot. When complaints started coming in, he got promoted to be the director of an orphanage. No parents to complain…kids had nowhere to go.

Edit: this was about 30 years ago.

 

[Reuben_J]

Depending on where you are coming from, there were many instances where priests can be with children and young adults. Catholic schools and seminaries were some of them.

And why shouldn’t they? That should be the pertinent question. Priests were spiritual fathers to them, they were the shepherds. They were to be trusted and whoever in the world would expect them to abuse God and to abuse the young people under their shepherding?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t understand how the sexually sinning priests in Philadelphia or anywhere else got so much access to children?

In the “old days”, priests often cultivated friendly relationships with their altar servers and other kids they might know from the parish school, providing friendly adult guidance the same way as a teacher might have done. The priest might also sometimes take the altar servers or a group of boys from the school to get ice cream or on a day trip or a camping trip, the same way a teacher or a Scout leader might do. If a young man seemed to be interested in a religious vocation, the priest would provide additional guidance the same way as a kid who hung around the local courtrooms and wanted to be a lawyer might be mentored by a working lawyer.

I would note that not every one of these situations with priests or lawyers or whoever ended up with children getting abused, any more than every field trip or mentorship with a teacher ended up in abuse. But if a priest had bad intent, then he definitely had access to kids. Also, pedophiles would determine which kids might have less vigilant parents because of some family dysfunction, which kids had parents who would back up the priest and put him on a pedestal, and which kids were too scared to say “no” or fight back. These kids would be singled out and groomed.

I know as a kid I did not spend a lot of time with priests, nuns or teachers because my mother wanted me to be spending that time with her and my dad as a family. Mom always said that kids who hung around with the teachers, the priests, the nuns etc were looking for substitute parents, based on her experience. She had a good friend who’d come out of a bad family situation and was essentially raised by a bunch of nuns who took an interest in the girl and sent her to school to learn a trade to support herself. But if you had two good parents at home, and the parents weren’t the type who fawned over the priests and nuns and invited them over constantly, you didn’t see that much of them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This is a good question, why did priests ever get the chance to hurt children in the first place? They should not have.

You might as well ask, why did teachers, or sports coaches, or Scout troop leaders, or some child’s dad who lived in the neighborhood, ever get a chance to hurt children in the first place?

Kids come in contact with a lot of adults other than their own parents as a normal part of growing up. They see a lot of role models other than their parents and as they get older, they need to do things sometimes on their own, with other adults, and without their parents around. This is a normal part of development.

 

[babochka]

We lived across the street from the church. My siblings and I were frequent visitors to both the rectory and convent with and without our parents and the sisters and priests were visitors to our home. During the wonderful, long summers, we would help clean the classrooms, run errands, deliver treats and just stop by to visit. One priest in particular is a family friend to this day and I continue to be in contact with one of the sisters, who was my 5th grade teacher. Nobody thought twice about it and, in fact, considered it a good thing to develop these relationships.

The parish school used to have a paper bin set up every few months and we would go play at the piles and piles of newspapers and phone books sent for recycling. Sometimes the priests would come watch us for a few minutes and once or twice they even joined us and our game of sliding down the piles. Nobody ever scolded us or expressed liability concerns, we were just kids having fun. I miss those days. Kids were free to explore and learn independence and responsibility without having to constantly be in organized, adult supervised programs.

These were some very good and healthy relationships and the memory of these relationships helps me to put today’s crisis in perspective. When the news about Ireland came out a few years ago, I was able to recall all the kind and loving Irish priests and nuns who had nurtured me in my childhood. When today’s news breaks me down and hurts my heart, I am able to remember that the priests that I have known in my life have been strong examples of Christ’s love. Having known them in such a personal manner enables me to do this in a way that a less personal relationship would not.

Nothing ever happened and I do know a single priest who has been accused of sexual misconduct with a minor.

 

[godisgood77]

I don’t understand how the sexually sinning priests in Philadelphia or anywhere else got so much access to children? Wouldn’t it be only altar servers? But altar servers are only there a bit before and after Mass.

I think about this a little different… It is a disgusting reality that we have to be sure that our children aren’t left with Priests… something has happened where we ended up with a bunch of perverts in priesthood. It appears this is NOT a recent phenomenon.

My hypothesis is this… Forgive me, because this is where I get a little out there… Catholics have always had large families and there was a soft expectation to send one of their boys to the priesthood. As a result of this, I think that we ended up with many weak men who had trouble succeeding in other areas, so they were given to the priesthood as it was a safe and secure life… I think this may have lead to many priests who were not answering a call per se, but instead chose the priesthood as a safety net.

I say that we return to the practice of allowing married priests in the Latin Rite and allow men of proven virtue to minister to the people of God as Priests; mirroring the practice of many of the Eastern Catholic Church’s … This go a long way toward assuring there aren’t child abusing perverts in the clergy.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There have been a lot of married child sexual abusers. Often they abuse their own children and friends of their own children.

Marriage for priests might solve some problems, but it is not the answer to keeping child predators out of the priesthood.

 

[godisgood77]

There have been a lot of married child sexual abusers. Often they abuse their own children and friends of their own children.

Proven Virtue and vetting needs to be the barometer. It seems to have worked well in the Eastern Rites as they do appear to have issues with predatory priests.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

How do you prove virtue

 

[therese1998]

Mom always said that kids who hung around with the teachers, the priests, the nuns etc were looking for substitute parents,

Interesting. Because those would be children already at risk due to parental neglect and would be inclined to accept sexual abuse for the sake of having someone to “love” them.

These were some very good and healthy relationships

That’s awesome. And an important reminder that the vast majority of priests are developing healthy and supportive relationships with their young parishoners.

may have lead to many priests who were not answering a call per se, but instead chose the priesthood as a safety net.

I would say it’s a reasonable hypothesis, if not a proven fact.

married priests

At the risk of repeating myself, many (most?) sexual predators are married and/or have active sex lives. Additionally, Protestant clergy and married priests also abuse. Celibacy is not the root of the problem. You can cut down the plant, but the roots will continue to live and grow.

men of proven virtue

Absolutely.

issues with predatory priests.

A Compendium of Crimes and Criminals of the Eastern Orthodox Church — Part 1 | by Scott Douglas Jacobsen | Humanist Voices | Medium

 

[babochka]

Tis_Bearself:

There have been a lot of married child sexual abusers. Often they abuse their own children and friends of their own children.

Proven Virtue and vetting needs to be the barometer. It seems to have worked well in the Eastern Rites as they do appear to have issues with predatory priests.

There have been some issues and the issues have involved both married and celibate priests . We are just so small as to not really be on the radar when it comes to news coverage.

I have no problems with married priests, but eliminating clerical celibacy for this reason is not the answer. The answer is to cultivate an atmosphere and expectation of virtue and holiness within the priesthood.

 

[Michael1978]

My understanding is that this is not primarily a pedophile issue but a homosexual issue. An overwhelming percentage of the abuse victims were post-pubescent males. The real question is why have so many homosexuals been allowed into the seminaries and then moved up into the hierarchy of the Church to then turn a blind eye on the homosexual abuses taking place.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

I was a child in the 1970s and 1980s. Already then there was a shortage of priests and such functions. Our sunday school and also team building trips for us altar servers were not run by priests but by laiety. For example we had a senior (adult) altar server who was also the church’s MC and he organized a day event about once a year so we could practice and rehearse all our altar server skills and improve the general way we did things. He was very fond of precison and accuracy and it all looking as smart as possible and we even practiced things like exactly where to stand and where to walk and how to genufklect at the right moment in the right place which (according to him) nobody besides us was doing right. But of course there was a fun elment to it too and in between we played games and did team building extercises and things. We also got together and sang our favourite hymns. The priest was way too busy to take an active part and only showed up once and stayed for about 10 minutes before vanishing. Ditto for summer camp. It ws all done by laiety (mostly ladies actually) and the priest only turned up to say mass and for the serious teaching and discssion stuff.

But I guess that maybe a gneration before my time, when there were still many more priests around, many of those jobs would have been handled by priests.

 

[redbetta]

Reading this thread makes me mad. I wish I could have had another adult mentor me as a kid because my parents were pretty useless and gave me no direction. But, nobody wants anything to do with someone else’s kid anymore because it’s a liability. And here we are with a lot of sad and directionless youth all because a few people betrayed the trust placed on them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We need to be careful not to present this as only a male on male issue. A significant number of female victims are described in the reports. Also, it has been shown that some child predators will abuse both genders, so the priest may have abused boys only because it was easier for him to access them.
I keep having to repeat this, but Fr. Maskell in “The Keepers” abused altar boys at his first parishes, was then moved to a girls’ school and proceeded to abuse a number of girls. The orphanage abuse report currently running on Buzzfeed contains an account of a priest molesting little girls. Many female victims have come forward in USA.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Me too. I feel my parents placed some very high expectations on me in my childhood. Academic excellency and so on. They were also very strict and didn’t tolerate any nonsense and I never really felt confident discussing things, which is why mostly I didn’t. I didn’t have any aunts or uncles either as basicalyl they weren’t on speaking terms with much of their family. I didn’t meet my cousins until i was an adult. I wished at the time I could have an adult I could confide in and discuss some of the things that were gnawing at my mind.

 

[redbetta]

With me, there was more of a language barrier between me and my parents. Also, they were pretty lazy and thought sending me to a good school was sufficient parenting.

 

[godisgood77]

I have no problems with married priests, but eliminating clerical celibacy for this reason is not the answer

Good…

For the record, I am not advocating for the elimination of celibacy. I just do not believe it should be a litmus test for clergy. After all, Peter was married…

 

[godisgood77]

My understanding is that this is not primarily a pedophile issue but a homosexual issue. An overwhelming percentage of the abuse victims were post-pubescent males. The real question is why have so many homosexuals been allowed into the seminaries and then moved up into the hierarchy of the Church to then turn a blind eye on the homosexual abuses taking place.

My understanding is that most of this is related to rape… A grown man and an underage boy or girl…a larger percentage being boys. For the boys, whether they are post pubescent or not is irrelevant. These are sexual predators and they are raping children and teens.