Priests having access to children in the first place

[Tis_Bearself]

In grade school and junior high, I also felt that nobody wanted to bother with us kids much. I was a kid during the 70s and as someone else said, there were starting to be fewer priests and most of the young ones were off doing their own thing, not bothering with us kids. Often the priests were more interested in just going and having adult fun, or engaging in some kind of activism in the city rather than dealing with their suburban parishioners. If there was some priest who was being “hip” or understanding “youth” in that sort of atmosphere, he would attract a lot of teens. I had a girlfriend who spent a lot of time with one of these youth-friendly priests and she very obviously had a crush on him. I don’t think anything untoward happened, but if that priest had been the type to make a move on a young girl, it would have been easy pickings.

When I went to an all-girls high school, there were mostly female lay teachers and they seemed much more interested in getting to know us. I wasn’t one to go seeking out friendships with teachers, but even I had a few of them I enjoyed being around and talking to. That school did have a percentage of messed-up teacher-pupil relationships both during and after my time, but most of the teachers were decent.

 

[Michael1978]

It is certainly a both/and situation, not either/or. There are homosexuals, rapists and pedophiles and a hierarchy that either actively or tacitly condones their actions.

 

[godisgood77]

It is certainly a both/and situation, not either/or. There are homosexuals, rapists and pedophiles and a hierarchy that either actively or tacitly condones their actions.

Sure… there are heterosexual priests who break their vows as well. Correlation does not equal causation… be very careful not to conflate the causes of these issues.

 

[Canvas]

How do any adults get to sexually abuse children? Teachers, neighbors, uncles, coaches, mom’s new boyfriend?

Because they are predators and where there is a will, there is a way. Adults who want to prey on children will put themselves in positions where they will be around kids, have authority over them, and isolate them. They are also often very manipulative and they hide in plain sight. They occupy traditional positions of trust.

 

[Michael1978]

Likewise we need to be careful not to overlook root causes because of political correctness or the fashion of the times.

 

[therese1998]

My understanding is that this is not primarily a pedophile issue but a homosexual issue. An overwhelming percentage of the abuse victims were post-pubescent males. The real question is why have so many homosexuals been allowed into the seminaries and then moved up into the hierarchy of the Church to then turn a blind eye on the homosexual abuses taking place.

I really think it is important for us to not shy away from the results of investigations, but not to assume, either. Again, the issue of male on male is significant, but not in and of itself an indication that the problem is purely homosexual. Also, we don’t know the number of priests with homosexual urges who DON’T act on those urges and don’t allow those around them too either. Just because someone has homosexual orientation doesn’t mean they’re okay with rape.

After all, Peter was married…

I don’t think the Church sees celibacy as a “litmus test”. I think they see it for exactly what it is…a discipline that can reap very powerful rewards. As far as it being mandatory, my personal opinion is that does not guarantee that these men will be able or willing to put in the work that precedes those rewards. It is NOT, however, my call to make.

related to rape

Yes, I believe that is true. Most men, regardless of their sexual orientation, would regard rape with repugnance. One who is willing to rape in order to satisfy even a strong urge is one who has issues with the abuse of power. If this person is sexually attracted to males or to children, that is possibly a separate matter.

Likewise we need to be careful not to overlook root causes because of political correctness or the fashion of the times.

Definitely…

 

[MikeInVA]

It is a disgusting reality that we have to be sure that our children aren’t left with Priests

Why do you single out priests? I didn’t want my children left with any adult alone for any reason. That includes teachers, coaches, scout leaders and neighbors. And I never want to be alone with a child without another adult present.

 

[semper_catholicus]

I can say that, based on my own experience, the sacristy can become a very hidden place, even during the main Sunday mass.

I also get the impression that priests had access to kids in catholic schools during school hours.

 

[Allegra]

I can think of any number of reasons priests would be alone with kids. Confession. Counselling. Many priests are teachers or school administrators. Some are coaches or lead a youth group or scouting troop.

 

[JanetF]

Prior to 2002 when reforms were put in place such as not being alone with children, a priest might be active with the youth in his parish in many ways, similar to a lay youth ministry person today (although today, lay persons are not allowed to be alone with kids either).

Some priests may have been active with kids athletically, going on camping trips, etc. Being an altar boy wasn’t the issue, it was the connection established in that relationship that might have led to other events/occasions with the priests when he would have access to kids without parents being around. Parents trusted the priests much more then than they do now!

Also, anytime someone went to a priest for counseling, it would be possible for the priest to take advantage of the opportunity of being alone with the person.

 

[Brendan_64]

That sounds horrendous.

 

[JanetF]

It is a disgusting reality that we have to be sure that our children aren’t left with Priests

Since the reforms put in place in the US in 2002, priests are not allowed to be alone with children. Nor are any other volunteers at church functions. Part of the Protecting God’s Children program outlines this very clearly.

On a personal note, my husband would never let me leave him alone at the house when our daughter had friends over. Not because he’s an abuser, but because he never wanted ANY issue to arise.

 

[Brendan_64]

I say that we return to the practice of allowing married priests in the Latin Rite and allow men of proven virtue to minister to the people of God as Priests;

This assumes that normal men, who would otherwise have married, will turn to abusing and even raping children out of sexual frustration because they are not married.

I would have thought that affairs with adult females would be the most likely outcome of a normal man not being able to remain celibate, not abusing or raping a child or teenager.

The horrendous abuse that has occured would not seem to be because priests cannot marry. The notion that a normal man will abuse a child or teenager because he is unmarried suggests a very low opinion of men in general.

 

[godisgood77]

This assumes that normal men, who would otherwise have married, will turn to abusing and even raping children out of sexual frustration because they are not married.

I do not follow your logic…

I’m suggesting that we return to allowing married men of proven virtue as priests. As a way to weed out rapist, perverts and address the priest shortage crisis.

I have no idea where you came up with the idea that this assumes that “normal men” would start raping kids…

 

[glencor63]

Most men want a wife and family. Celibacy precludes marriage and children. That’s a huge percentage of candidates eliminated from the priesthood. Very, very few people have the gift of celibacy. It’s a charism. It cannot be taught. The men that don’t want to marry traditionally would be asexuals (very small percentage of the human population), homosexuals, and those with psychosexual disorders, like pedophiles. By demanding celibacy the Church opened the door to many men entering the priesthood for reasons not related to serving God. The abuse crisis is intrinsically linked to the celibacy requirement. The late Richard Sipe (former priest) concluded as much in his 25 year study. Many Catholics are in deep denial that a discipline of the church, albeit noble has failed.

 

[Lara]

There are many things you’ve got wrong. For starters, there are always a percentage of men who don’t want to be married. They’re not necessarily asexual, homosexual, or deviants. They just may not be up to the challenges of being a husband or father. They may still have plenty of sexual desire, but just not the right circumstance to marry. Do you really look at single people as so strange?

Celibacy is a discipline. If it cannot be taught, all women should fear stepping outside of the house. All men have to be celibate some or most of the time.

Traditionally a man would enter the priesthood because he wanted to serve the Church. He sacrificed to do so, and he knew that going in.

 

[Joey12]

This is a good question to ask.

Of the situations I know of, the mother of one child in my Diocese wrote a book about it and he was an altar boy for a sexual abusing priest. He had multiple churches to say mass at and used to take the boy in the car with him to travel between churches and the abuse would occur in the car.

I also know of examples involving Marist brothers who ran a High School (now a Diocesan school) and because it was originally a Marist brothers school, the brothers would have living quarters attached to the school, so it was quite easy for them to get access to their private quarters with children. Additionally, the Marist brothers were also teachers and the kids would scramble for seats in the classroom where they were out of reach of the “kiddy fiddlers” who would use the classroom to inappropriately touch the kids.

There was obviously too much trust in priests because of the role they perform. I also looked up to priests as a young adult but so many of the priests in my diocese, including ones I trusted have been charged or jailed that it is not possible for me to put them on a pedestal. When you know someone who has committed suicide and you know people who were happy to see a priest they know go to jail, it just isn’t possible.

I think one of the real challenges as a parent is watching how people behave toward your children. I’ve personally witnessed a local priest act in a “weird” way toward my kids and I have distanced my family from him, as I would with any other adult that behaves strange. But acting weird is not enough to lay an accusation against someone. What power do we have in a parish to say that a priest doesn’t seem fully mature and should be removed from office? People have approached our bishop and the bishop asked him to resign but he refused, and without any further evidence other than “weird” behaviour you can’t do anything. I would like to see some form of control given to the parish community if they are unhappy with their priest. I know this opens a pandora’s box but we are the ones with eyes on the ground that witness the behaviour. There is also this doubt in my head about being a “judas” for calling someone’s behaviour into question. Most people just leave the parish and search for a priest they like.

We are entering a new era where we have to be awake of dangers all around us. I don’t know how we are to navigate it but I know that we have to be very, very vigilant.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Celibacy is a discipline. If it cannot be taught, all women should fear stepping outside of the house. All men have to be celibate some or most of the time.

Yes, I agree. “Celibacy” does not mean the lack of a sex drive. Many if not most of us are celibate during portions of our life, often large portions. I myself and a number of relatives of mine have been celibate for long periods when either we ourselves were physically unable to have sex or our spouses were unable to, or when we were physically distant from a spouse for a long period of time such as during a military deployment or a distant work assignment, or when spouses died.
The sex drive doesn’t just vanish during this time, and good Catholics don’t masturbate or look for other sexual outlets.

It is a learned discipline and difficult for young people (women too) although the degree of difficulty may vary by person. Some people are just better at finding ways to cope. It’s not a “charism”. God doesn’t pick certain people and gift them with the ability to be celibate. It is something learned and a sacrifice made for God.

 

[ZMystiCat]

When complaints started coming in, he got promoted to be the director of an orphanage. No parents to complain…kids had nowhere to go.

It’s unfortunate that I can’t tell if the person who promoted him was either incredibly stupid or incredibly evil.

It seems to have worked well in the Eastern Rites as they do appear to have issues with predatory priests.

Starting in August of last year, there was someone who started collecting a compendium of sexual abuse cases that came from Eastern Orthodox churches. I’ve linked the, to my knowledge, most recent one, which also mentions attempted cover ups. (Note: I haven’t read all the posts, nor have I been able to verify their veracity.)

Now, I’m not saying that the Eastern Orthodox committed crimes on the scale, absolutely or relatively, to that of the Catholic Church. I just think it is worth noting that they may have their own problems and don’t necessarily hold the solution to our own, either by us implementing their practices or us jumping over to them.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I was in Catholic school in the 90s. I ended up in a small group for children whose parents were divorcing. The priest came to pick us up from class, and then we went over to the rectory for our meeting. It was just us little kids and a couple friars for about 45 minutes.

Nothing untoward happened, but I’d imagine this would not be allowed today. I doubt my mother knew we were alone with friars in the rectory.