Priests just blending in

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domineutvideam said:
I’ve noticed the opposit. It’s particularly the younger priests who are wearing the roman collar and even a cassock. Generally speaking, this isn’t a huge problem in the area I live in, but typically when I’ve seen priests not wearing clericals it has been the older priests.
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The difference of opinion may lie in how you define “older” and “younger”.

When speaking of priests, some people define younger as “still playing golf”.
 
ByzCath said:
No problem. Here is what Canon Law says;

Can. 966 §1 For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.

§2 A priest can be given this faculty either by the law itself, or by a concession issued by the competent authority in accordance with can. 969.

Can. 969 §1 Only the local Ordinary is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any whomsoever of the faithful. Priests who are members of religious institutes may not, however, use this faculty without the permission, at least presumed, of their Superior.

§2 The Superior of a religious institute or of a society of apostolic life, mentioned in can. 968 §2, is competent to give to any priests whomsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of his own subjects and of those others who live day and night in the house.

Canon 968 §2 just says that the religious superiors can hear confessions of the members of their order and all who live “day and night” in the orders religious houses.

So if a priest is in an airport that is not part of a diocese where he has faculties he can not validly absolve someone.

Now when a priest is acting as a chaplain to a group on a trip he can hear their confessions and validly absolve becuase that comes from his bishop as those people on the trip are of the same diocese but he can not validly absolve anyone not of that group without faculties from the local ordinary.
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Hopefully this is the NEW Code of Canon Law (1983)? If it IS, thanks I did not know all this, and that it is CANON LAW! Gee, how sad to know that a person I know, an older lady goes to the SSPX for CONFESSION, as per she is a member of that schismatic group.😦
 
fiat1122 said:
Hopefully this is the NEW Code of Canon Law (1983)? If it IS, thanks I did not know all this, and that it is CANON LAW! Gee, how sad to know that a person I know, an older lady goes to the SSPX for CONFESSION, as per she is a member of that schismatic group.😦
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Yes, it is the current Code of Canon Law.

You can find it on the internet at this link.

Code of Canon Law Website
 
chris_molter said:
Easy for a Canadian to say! Try living in Florida for 20 years and see if that alters your thinking a bit! 😃

(I don’t think I’ve ever seen clergy wearing shorts with clericals, although I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened!)

btw, here’s Almy’s “Panama Shirt” for clergy. I could see a priest wearing shorts with it… 👍

almy.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=31004
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I think that would be me. I’m the type of person who like shorts, but would want to wear the collar as well. I also, like the idea of a cassock, though not necessarily all the time.
 
Hello Folks.

Here are some thoughts from a guy on the inside…

As a priest I wear my blacks/collar at all times while at the parish, while out doing parish business, or sacramental duties. There is a ministry all it’s own in simply wearing the blacks. It does set an example and make a statement that people need to see. However, while running errands like grocery shopping or things of that nature, I often dress down a bit, such as wearing a casual shirt of having my collar out, simply because it does get very aggravating having everybody asking me ridiculous questions, hassling me for cash (which I don’t have much of) snooping around in my shopping cart (literally), and basically interrogating every move I make.

As a diocesan priest, I have taken a vow of celibacy and obedience. As someone pointed out already, we do not take a vow of poverty. We live in the secular world and serve in the secular world and we do have to provide for ourselves (besides housing and some food costs). We earn a fairly meager salary and we have to also provide for our own retirement, not to mention pay massive amounts of taxes because we’re considered, “self-employed.” And yes, priests (and all Christians) should strive to live simply, but also practically. I bought a new truck last year, because in the long run it’s much cheaper than putting tons of cash in some run down piece of junk every month.

Here in St. Louis we get 4 weeks of vacation, and a week for retreat. When I take a week or two off to get away and regain my sanity, I do get a lot of snide remarks such as…“Oh, it sure must be nice father!” Keep in mind that we work weekends and holidays and put in 12-14 hour days on a fairly regular basis. It’s very easy to get burned out. If we don’t take the time to get away and catch our breath, then we are no good to anybody.

Anyhow, that’s my take on things.

God Bless.👍
 
It would be nice if someone offered to pay for your groceries. In the good old days, someone would have.

Thanks for the good work you do. 👍
 
Fr. Joe,

I don’t think anyone should judge a priest for taking a vacation. There’s so much pressure on you all.

Although I do have to say that I love seeing priests out in public with their collars. Their a sign of contradiction in the world.

I’ve also had the good fortune of finding a priest at an airport when I really wanted to make a good confession before getting on a plane. 🙂
 
Augustine22 said:
I’ve also had the good fortune of finding a priest at an airport when I really wanted to make a good confession before getting on a plane. 🙂
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This is one of the problems that we run into.

If the priest that you run into in the airport does not have faculites granted to him by the bishop whose diocese the airport is in then the confession is invalid. That is something that not many people realize.
 
Fr.Joe said:
However, while running errands like grocery shopping or things of that nature, I often dress down a bit, such as wearing a casual shirt of having my collar out, simply because it does get very aggravating having everybody asking me ridiculous questions, hassling me for cash (which I don’t have much of) snooping around in my shopping cart (literally), and basically interrogating every move I make.
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That’s perfectly understandable.

Recently, someone came and interrupted a meeting I was having with one of our priests to mooch some money - I said to the person (in a joking tone, of course) “He’s a priest; not an ATM machine.”

It broke the tension, and the priest was able to say to the person, “Well, you know, I don’t carry a lot of cash around with me, as a matter of fact, and I don’t have anything with me that you can have right now,” and the person went away without any further trouble.
 
Byzcath–

Are you absolutely sure that a confession to a priest in an airport is INVALID if that priest is not of that diocese or does not have the express permission of that bishop?

Something doesn’t sound quite right about that. What about if a priest is in international waters or airspace? Is a person just out of luck?

And if there’s an accident on the highway and a priest stops, he can’t hear the confession of a dying man and have it be valid if he’s not from that diocese or doesn’t have express permission from that bishop?

I don’t know. I’d have to see more information to believe that.
 
Byzcath–

I just did some looking on this and it looks to me like those confessions are valid.

Canon 967 - §2. Those who enjoy the faculty of hearing confessions habitually whether in virtue of office or by grant from the ordinary of the place of incardination or the place in which they have a domicile can exercise the same faculty everywhere unless (nisi) the local ordinary denies it in a particular case, with due regard for the prescription of canon 974, §§2 and 3.
 
Augustine22 said:
Byzcath–

I just did some looking on this and it looks to me like those confessions are valid.

Canon 967 - §2. Those who enjoy the faculty of hearing confessions habitually whether in virtue of office or by grant from the ordinary of the place of incardination or the place in which they have a domicile can exercise the same faculty everywhere unless (nisi) the local ordinary denies it in a particular case, with due regard for the prescription of canon 974, §§2 and 3.
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Your right, I didn’t read far enough into the Canons on this one. Just took what I knew for those schismatic groups who are hearing confessions but then they do not have faculties anywhere so their absolutions are invalid.

I know some priests though who do not dress this way for this very reason when they are traveling.
 
Augustine22 said:
Byzcath–

Are you absolutely sure that a confession to a priest in an airport is INVALID if that priest is not of that diocese or does not have the express permission of that bishop?
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This is accurate.
Something doesn’t sound quite right about that. What about if a priest is in international waters or airspace? Is a person just out of luck?
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You are always in some Bishop’s Diocese - the Bishop of Orlando’s Diocese includes the entire surface of the Moon, for example. I don’t know how the oceans are divided up, but you can never be physically outside of the Catholic Church - and if it were important to you, you’d find out whose Diocese you were in, to make a transAtlantic crossing, for example.
And if there’s an accident on the highway and a priest stops, he can’t hear the confession of a dying man and have it be valid if he’s not from that diocese or doesn’t have express permission from that bishop?
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Any priest, including a schismatic or excommunicated priest, can validly hear the confession of a dying person - he can also give the person the Sacrament of Extreme Unction without having to check in with the Bishop, first.
 
Jm–

Did you read the part of cannon law I gave to Byzcath? I just asked my priest and he told me what number to look up. I don’t think your right.

Byzcath just said he wasn’t right, too.
 
Augustine22 said:
Jm–

Did you read the part of cannon law I gave to Byzcath? I just asked my priest and he told me what number to look up. I don’t think your right.

Byzcath just said he wasn’t right, too.
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I don’t know about your diocese, but I think that since the abuse scandals that our archdiocese expressly forbids anyone not in an emergency situation from engaging in any Church-related ministry of any kind without a criminal background check and a check in with the person’s home diocese by the chancery office. They have to be responsible for who is out there acting expressly on the Church’s behalf.

That is, if it is required to expressly forbid the ministry, I think that has been done in most, if not all, of the United States. It isn’t likely there are many priests out there who are unaware of that.
 
Augustine22 said:
Fr. Joe,
I’ve also had the good fortune of finding a priest at an airport when I really wanted to make a good confession before getting on a plane. 🙂
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Unfortunately, this is one reason my priest doesn’t like to wear his collar in public. Recently, he was in the airport to go to Pennsylvania to visit his sick mother and a non-Catholic came up to him wanting to make a confession. He ordinarily doesn’t like to wear his collar away from the church because of this kind of thing, but he was running late (he likes to talk) and didn’t have time to change clothes. I got the feeling that he would have taken the time to hear the confession if the person had been Catholic. He’s that kind of person.

His willingness to hear the confession leads me to believe that it is permissable for priests to hear confessions outside of their diocese. I’m not sure if the airport is in our diocese or the neighboring diocese. It’s very close to the border.
 
I just heard back from my priest again who spoke to a cannon lawyer. This is what he said–

The cannon # I gave already usually rules the situation, #967.

It is presumed that a priest can hear confessions outside of his own dicoese. A bishop has to make clear that a person CANNOT hear confessions for them to be invalid and this is not the usual norm.

The situation for a priest NOT to be able to hear a confession outside of his own diocese is here–

Can. 974 §1. The local ordinary and the competent superior are not to revoke the faculty to hear confessions habitually except for a grave cause.

§2. When the faculty to hear confessions has been revoked by the local ordinary who granted it as mentioned in ⇒ can. 967, §2, a presbyter loses the faculty everywhere. If some other local ordinary has revoked the faculty, the presbyter loses it only in the territory of the one who revokes it.

§3. Any local ordinary who has revoked the faculty of some presbyter to hear confessions is to inform the proper ordinary of incardination of the presbyter or, if he is a member of a religious institute, his competent superior.
 
Augustine22 said:
I just heard back from my priest again who spoke to a cannon lawyer. This is what he said–

The cannon # I gave already usually rules the situation, #967.

It is presumed that a priest can hear confessions outside of his own dicoese. A bishop has to make clear that a person CANNOT hear confessions for them to be invalid and this is not the usual norm.

The situation for a priest NOT to be able to hear a confession outside of his own diocese is here–

Can. 974 §1. The local ordinary and the competent superior are not to revoke the faculty to hear confessions habitually except for a grave cause.

§2. When the faculty to hear confessions has been revoked by the local ordinary who granted it as mentioned in ? can. 967, §2, a presbyter loses the faculty everywhere. If some other local ordinary has revoked the faculty, the presbyter loses it only in the territory of the one who revokes it.

§3. Any local ordinary who has revoked the faculty of some presbyter to hear confessions is to inform the proper ordinary of incardination of the presbyter or, if he is a member of a religious institute, his competent superior.
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Yes, if you see above I gave in on this and admitted that I was mistaken. I was going on the study I did for SSPX and other schismatic priests whose absolutions are invalid.

As long as the Catholic priest has faculties somewhere his absolutions will be valid.
 
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