Priests more into psychology than Jesus..

[EasterJoy]

I have heard some very worldly advice coming from priests these days, whether in homilies or in the confessional or wherever…

This one priest, during confession, got very irritated w/ me because i wouldn’t agree to take psych drugs… When i said that (something to the effect of) i would rather carry my cross… He got angry and said something about … that i was inflicting crosses on others… Little does he know… I don’t socialize much, so can’t inflict too much of my cross on anyone… & when i do socialize, i try not to do such things…

anyway… another priest suggested i get counseling about this issue i brought up… Then he kept bringing up an issue from my distant past, went on and on about how i need to be healed of tht, even though i told him, in effect, that Jesus had already healed me and was continuing the process of healing… He seemed to ignore the issue i thought was most important… to focus on what he thought was important…

It just seems that priests nowadays (a lot of them) are more into psychology than spiritualiity… and True Psychology comes from Jesus… the one who knows us perfectly…

Have you experienced this or something like it??

As other have pointed out, there are problems that are psychiatric in origin and that need medication. Most priests aren’t a medical physicians and are not qualified to give medical advice, but it is a mistake and may even be prideful to ignore it when your confessor asks you to consult with a mental health professional. Priests don’t get kick-backs from psychologists. If they think you might benefit from therapy, at least consider it. If they think your biggest problems is a different one than you do, think about that. Otherwise, why did you go to this physician of souls? To tell him what to do? You even got the same advice when you sought a second opinion. Nobody can diagnose you over the internet, but do consider that in prayer.

If your back was bad and you basically could not do any productive work because you refused treatment, because you thought the problem was a character flaw and not in your body, or because you thought you had cancer instead, would that be just about you? What about those who do not benefit from the work you aren’t providing to them? Likewise, your choice not to have a social life is not just about you. You may have something to contribute that others need. Your life is* never* just about you. Maybe this applies to you, or maybe not, but think about it.

All of us have ways in which we are not “productive”, because we lack either the aptitude or the opportunity. Of course, this is OK. What God wants us to do, he will give us the means to do. If you are useless to anyone else in your social sphere because you are too stubborn to get help, though, think about that. Maybe you are right, but maybe not. Even if it is humbling, consider looking into the suggestions of your two confessors. God may have something in mind for you to do that you have not dreamed of, and you may need healing from a medical professional to do it. It is just a thought.

It’s my opinion women want to talk more about their problems than men. At length. And** they don’t necessarily want a solution from you. The talking is enjoyable in itself.**

As a man, I feel tired even typing this [grin].

I once timed a female friend talking about her problems to me. I think she went on for a good 45 mins. I also found that as long as I said ‘um’ or ‘I see’ every so often, she was happy. Every time I suggested a solution to her problems, she wasn’t interested.

Nowadays I try to be blunt, but polite. I’m not obliged to waste my time and energy on those who don’t really want my advice.

My strategy is to quickly jolly them out of their funk if I can, and if I can’t, head for the hills. I think of the word ‘joviality’, and behave like a benevolent English Lord. I strive to be manly, and ‘Cut the Gordian knot’ of nonsense.

Never let other people wear you down with their negativity. Always leave 'em laughing, or just leave. [grin]

I would quibble with the “enjoyable” bit, but I have run into this. There are people who basically feel that if you don’t want to allow them to “fix” your problem by taking their advice, then don’t bother them with your problems. This is very good advice, for all concerned. Do not go to those who need to give advice when advice is not what you want.

Would you go to a priest for spiritual advice, a doctor for medical advice, or a financial planner for financial advice, and not take it? It is like that with those you choose to share your personal problems with. (I do not mean you, Layman, but the general “you”.) There are those who give advice and those who are simply content to be a listener. If you know a friend will want to give you advice that you feel they are not qualified to give, then don’t ask them. Find a friend who is a listener, when listening is what you need.

There are those who know how to just listen, without telling you how to run your life, and those who will see your admission of your problems as an invitation to do some problem-solving. It is not that one way is wrong. It is that one is given one gift and another is given another gift. Some do both, but they are few. Don’t try to change one type into the other. It just frustrates everyone involved.

 

[KingAlfred]

Couldn’t have said it better…

Again, very well said…

i have been to so-called Catholic therapists… and… i know i am going to get jumped on by others reading this but… She didn’t say or do anthign “wrong”… yet i still felt it was wrong to go to her & tell her all my “stuff”…

Sometimes you just can’t put a finger on why you feel something is wrong… But you know, it could be the Holy spirit telling you… and i don’t want to go against the HS… I have done that in the past and the result was disastrous…(duh:banghead: :hypno: uch: ) In fact, i suppose sin, generally speaking, can be defined as going against the HS…

I have often had the feeling i should do or not do something and when i went against that feeling, i suffered…

As you see various therapists, document the ideas and insights you find helpful. Privately dismiss those you don’t. Over time, you will amass a great body of affirmations you believe to be true about your condition, and they will constitute ‘your truth’. Don’t seek validation of those ‘conclusions’, but simply press on, in search of new affirmations. Psychology and psychiatry still have a *long, long way to go *to become definitive, medical disciplines. We still don’t know much, objectively, about the generation of human thought.

 

[distracted]

As you see various therapists, document the ideas and insights you find helpful.

thanks for the advice but i don’t plan on going to any psychogists… I’m “damaged for life” when it comes to that kind of thing… I really do believe that i am supposed to go it alone with Jesus… (which is far from alone, of course…).

Psychology and psychiatry still have a *long, long way to go *to become definitive, medical disciplines. .

also, there is a $ agenda in everything… a lot of pscyh doctors seem to want to push drugs on people… One time i went to a dr. jus for a phsical… 1st time meeting him… he didn’t know anything about me except results of blood work… Yet, he wanted to prescribe Zoloft… I told him forget it… (so mnay words) & he actually got angry at me… but i insisted…

(incidentally, he also wanted to put me on anti-cholesterol drugs because my chol was 304. I refused that also… (My HDL was over 100)… I had read a lot of books on that kind of drug (not good)… Again, he got angry… Who knows why… I mean, gee… i thought it was my body for crying out loud… That was yrs ago & i am suffering no heart disease (had a recent EKG)… blood pressure is about 100/70… sometimes lower…

I just dont’ trust doctors… and i never will… (unless i break my leg or something… )…

 

[distracted]

In the same way that priests should do, we should not go beyond our our experience and expertise as we can do damage.

amen… Even if a priest DOES have psych knowledge… that doesn’t mean he knows someone’s most pressing “issue” just by talking (no- interrupting) with the person for a minute or two…

 

[distracted]

It’s my opinion women want to talk more about their problems than men. At length. And** they don’t necessarily want a solution from you. The talking is enjoyable in itself.**

]

you obviously have never been to an AA meeting… Men can talk women under the freaking table…

 

[EasterJoy]

thanks for the advice but i don’t plan on going to any psychogists… I’m “damaged for life” when it comes to that kind of thing… I really do believe that i am supposed to go it alone with Jesus… (which is far from alone, of course…).

also, there is a $ agenda in everything… a lot of pscyh doctors seem to want to push drugs on people… One time i went to a dr. jus for a phsical… 1st time meeting him… he didn’t know anything about me except results of blood work… Yet, he wanted to prescribe Zoloft… I told him forget it… (so mnay words) & he actually got angry at me… but i insisted…

(incidentally, he also wanted to put me on anti-cholesterol drugs because my chol was 304. I refused that also… (My HDL was over 100)… I had read a lot of books on that kind of drug (not good)… Again, he got angry… Who knows why… I mean, gee… i thought it was my body for crying out loud… That was yrs ago & i am suffering no heart disease (had a recent EKG)… blood pressure is about 100/70… sometimes lower…

I just dont’ trust doctors… and i never will… (unless i break my leg or something… )…

I know what you mean, but I also know the doctors wonder why you give up the blood for the test if they aren’t going to find anything you want treatment for? I’m sure you can kind of see the point, can’t you?

I’ve had depression…it can be a lot more obvious from the outside than from the inside. If it is very bad, it is very obvious, and very quickly. It doesn’t take a battery of tests to see it. From the inside, you’re thinking “Life is a vale of tears.” From the outside, they can see “Here is somebody with brain chemistry that only lets him see the tears, and not the rejoicing.”

You’re describing an awful lot of people who don’t see the joy of Christianity in you. That must concern you, doesn’t it?

you obviously have never been to an AA meeting… Men can talk women under the freaking table…

You are not currently self-medicating your crosses with alcohol, though, right?

I can’t know you over the internet, but I am really wondering if you are ever going to find a confessor who won’t absolutely insist you get help that goes significantly beyond that which can be offered in the confessional.

If you don’t trust doctors, then you don’t want a physician who’s not even been to medical school, yes? That would be you. Jesus has arranged a physician for your soul, right? He’s also not you. So be ready to humble yourself to try at least some of the treatments that so many have suggested, won’t you? It might take some imagination to find someone you’re willing to consider, I will admit. If you contact a naturopath, for instance, perhaps you can get some suggestions on mental health help that doesn’t include drugs.

Unless you know a priest or a doctor who agrees with you, and since you know you have at the very least had some stuff in the past that was beyond your own ability to manage just between you and the Lord, you’re bound to question yourself and your own motivations, too, and not just the doctors’. Again, though, this is just a thought for you to consider. A guess from across the internet can only be that: a guess.

I wish the best to you. If you have something to cope with that looks anything like depression from the outside, you have a cross to bear, that is for sure. Do not mess around with it, OK? Even doctors have physicians; only the foolish ones practice the art of medicine on themselves. Let someone in this world have some kind of surveillance over you. As you know, depression kills people. Once it gets to that point, asking for help can be nearly impossible. Your life is precious. Just in case depression is what you do have, you can’t afford to risk that your self-diagnosis has been incorrect. That would violate the dictates of prudence.

 

[distracted]

I know what you mean, but I also know the doctors wonder why you give up the blood for the test if they aren’t going to find anything you want treatment for? I’m sure you can kind of see the point, can’t you?

can psych disorders be found in blood work?? i just wanted to know if my heart was healthy (& cholesterol, etc…)

I’ve had depression…

you never experience it anymore?? Well, not to be a smart — but… if you are not depressed at all anymore… maybe you found a way to shut out the world entirely?? I mean, with 35 yrs of legalized baby-killing in this country… that alone would be enough to depress a christian…

.it can be a lot more obvious from the outside than from the inside. If it is very bad, it is very obvious, and very quickly. It doesn’t take a battery of tests to see it.

that is very true… and a valid point. However, when i enter a confessional, i am far from depressed. My depression only comes here & there… but never when confessing (excpet that this particular priest was enoguh to depress a person… He didn’t depress me, though because i, frankly, had a strane feeling before i went in that something wasn’t 'right" about him… so i was expecting something weird…

you’re thinking “Life is a vale of tears.” From the outside, they can see “Here is somebody with brain chemistry that only lets him see the tears, and not the rejoicing.”

Again, you are wrong. If anything, i enjoy life a little too mcuh… My depression comes when i am thinking about the aforemntioned… (abortion) and things like that…

You’re describing an awful lot of people who don’t see the joy of Christianity in you. That must concern you, doesn’t it?

No… Catholics in general do not show their joy (not like some Protestnats do…).

You are not currently self-medicating your crosses with alcohol, though, right?

i drink one 1/2 glass of wine sometimes… If that is self-medicating, i guess i am… Considering all i have heard about the health benefits of wine, i am probably not drinking enough…

I can’t know you over the internet, but I am really wondering if you are ever going to find a confessor who won’t absolutely insist you get help that goes significantly beyond that which can be offered in the confessional.

it wouldn’t do him any good. I am NOT going there… Period-End of Sentence…

for instance, perhaps you can get some suggestions on mental health help that doesn’t include drugs.

i don’t have a seroius mental disorder (more emotional than mental) that cannot be healed (albeit over a period of time) by Jesus Christ… and my submission to him…

I wish the best to you. If you have something to cope with that looks anything like depression from the outside, you have a cross to bear, that is for sure. Do not mess around with it, OK? Even doctors have physicians; only the foolish ones practice the art of medicine on themselves. Let someone in this world have some kind of surveillance over you. As you know, depression kills people. Once it gets to that point, asking for help can be nearly impossible. Your life is precious. Just in case depression is what you do have, you can’t afford to risk that your self-diagnosis has been incorrect. That would violate the dictates of prudence.

i appreciate the advice but i do not trust anyone… If you knew a tip of the iceberg of what i have been through, you would understand why. I am NOT going to share my “stuff” with any human being… PTSD that is caused by human evil is the hardest to “cure”… I have worked on my issues ad nauseum… and i have concluded that that is one thing that is NOT going to change about me… my lack of trust in humans…

There are some things we humans just have to accept… I think that americans in particular, humans in general, are always tryign to perfect things… It’s like: See a problem?? Well, we have the answer… or if we don’t, this or that other person (expert) over ther has the answer… But whatever you do… do not ACCEPT things as they are… You can change, you can change… Do whatevery you can to perfect [whatever]

Well, i believe in accepting things that one cannot change… and another thing: How do we always know that God even wants us to work on changing any given thing??

May God’s will be done… not my own…

 

[EasterJoy]

can psych disorders be found in blood work?? i just wanted to know if my heart was healthy (& cholesterol, etc…) you never experience it anymore?? Well, not to be a smart — but… if you are not depressed at all anymore… maybe you found a way to shut out the world entirely?? I mean, with 35 yrs of legalized baby-killing in this country… that alone would be enough to depress a christian…

that is very true… and a valid point. However, when i enter a confessional, i am far from depressed. My depression only comes here & there… but never when confessing (excpet that this particular priest was enoguh to depress a person… He didn’t depress me, though because i, frankly, had a strane feeling before i went in that something wasn’t 'right" about him… so i was expecting something weird…

Again, you are wrong. If anything, i enjoy life a little too mcuh… My depression comes when i am thinking about the aforemntioned… (abortion) and things like that…
No… Catholics in general do not show their joy (not like some Protestnats do…).

i drink one 1/2 glass of wine sometimes… If that is self-medicating, i guess i am… Considering all i have heard about the health benefits of wine, i am probably not drinking enough… it wouldn’t do him any good. I am NOT going there… Period-End of Sentence… i don’t have a seroius mental disorder (more emotional than mental) that cannot be healed (albeit over a period of time) by Jesus Christ… and my submission to him…

i appreciate the advice but i do not trust anyone… If you knew a tip of the iceberg of what i have been through, you would understand why. I am NOT going to share my “stuff” with any human being… PTSD that is caused by human evil is the hardest to “cure”… I have worked on my issues ad nauseum… and i have concluded that that is one thing that is NOT going to change about me… my lack of trust in humans…

There are some things we humans just have to accept… I think that americans in particular, humans in general, are always tryign to perfect things… It’s like: See a problem?? Well, we have the answer… or if we don’t, this or that other person (expert) over ther has the answer… But whatever you do… do not ACCEPT things as they are… You can change, you can change… Do whatevery you can to perfect [whatever]

Well, i believe in accepting things that one cannot change… and another thing: How do we always know that God even wants us to work on changing any given thing??

May God’s will be done… not my own…

I could not agree more with your point about trying to be perfect. That is a huge source of anxiety in this country. If you think this world is in your hands, there is no way not to be depressed. If you think joy is in chasing what the world passes off as “happiness”, you’re doomed to failure, too, although that doesn’t sound like what you’re going through. If you remember that the world is in God’s hands, if you give in to the inescapable conclusion that we and everybody else need the saving Death and Resurrection of Our Lord, that we need forgiveness and always will, then yes, rejoicing is the order of the day. There are a lot of Alleluias in Catholicism. Really. Look at Mother Theresa’s sisters, the Missionaries of Charity. They smile like the Lord is coming back any second. That is part of their ministry.

St. Paul did say “Rejoice in the Lord always!” and “Dismiss all anxiety from your minds.” The Lord also willed that we should get through this vale of tears as one. We cannot put needs that only God can fill in the hands of humans (put not your trust in princes), but you cannot read either the Scriptures or the teachings of the Church and come away with the idea that ours is an individual faith. That is a Protestant concept!

There is a reason that the Lord said that those who scandalized one of the little ones deserves to be thrown into the sea with a millstone around their neck, too. This business of trusting and being willing to be vulnerable after life has whacked you for it is a long-term thing. When God has perfected us, we will be as willing to do it, to be as vulnerable and as willing to suffer betryal for the sake of love as Our Lord was. In the meantime, you sound as if you have earned your place as that lamb that gets the ride on his shoulders. Just never say “never”, though. He’ll get you back on your feet.

I’ll leave you with this, though: when I let Jesus go to bat for those who have hurt me, when I say, “Yes, your blood is sufficient to win forgiveness even for them”, I find that I can accept forgiveness, too. That is a heavy load to carry, and a good one to lose, but it seems like putting it down is something that can only be managed for a little while at first, then a little longer each time. That’s where my depression comes from, though: from refusing my need to forgive and be forgiven. That may not apply to you, but if it does, it is a good place to start.

Good luck to you, and God go with you always.

 

[distracted]

I could not agree more with your point about trying to be perfect. That is a huge source of anxiety in this country. If you think this world is in your hands, there is no way not to be depressed. If you think joy is in chasing what the world passes off as “happiness”, you’re doomed to failure, too, although that doesn’t sound like what you’re going through. If you remember that the world is in God’s hands, if you give in to the inescapable conclusion that we and everybody else need the saving Death and Resurrection of Our Lord, that we need forgiveness and always will, then yes, rejoicing is the order of the day. There are a lot of Alleluias in Catholicism. Really. Look at Mother Theresa’s sisters, the Missionaries of Charity. They smile like the Lord is coming back any second. That is part of their ministry.

St. Paul did say “Rejoice in the Lord always!” and “Dismiss all anxiety from your minds.” The Lord also willed that we should get through this vale of tears as one. We cannot put needs that only God can fill in the hands of humans (put not your trust in princes), but you cannot read either the Scriptures or the teachings of the Church and come away with the idea that ours is an individual faith. That is a Protestant concept!

There is a reason that the Lord said that those who scandalized one of the little ones deserves to be thrown into the sea with a millstone around their neck, too. This business of trusting and being willing to be vulnerable after life has whacked you for it is a long-term thing. When God has perfected us, we will be as willing to do it, to be as vulnerable and as willing to suffer betryal for the sake of love as Our Lord was. In the meantime, you sound as if you have earned your place as that lamb that gets the ride on his shoulders. Just never say “never”, though. He’ll get you back on your feet.

I’ll leave you with this, though: when I let Jesus go to bat for those who have hurt me, when I say, “Yes, your blood is sufficient to win forgiveness even for them”, I find that I can accept forgiveness, too. That is a heavy load to carry, and a good one to lose, but it seems like putting it down is something that can only be managed for a little while at first, then a little longer each time. That’s where my depression comes from, though: from refusing my need to forgive and be forgiven. That may not apply to you, but if it does, it is a good place to start.

Good luck to you, and God go with you always.

i was just ready to leaave the forums… almost didn’t read this but it is the perfect one to end with…

I have forgiven all the poeple who have hurt me, although sometimes i have to admit, i somewhat “take it badk”… because they don’t even seem one bit sorry… but then, who knows? i don’t keep in touch with them…

All i know is that none of those who have hurt me has ever apologized or tried to make things right in even the slightest way… but i have forgiven them… For one thing: i know that i am no better than they…

Yes, forgiving others helps one to fogive oneself… I wish this one perosn i have in mind rightn now would realie that… (long story)… but anyway…

thanks again… I have to get moving… but really enjoyed your words…

God bless your day…

 

[brigid12]

If the right medicine will work for you, then HUMBLE YOURSELF and accept it as God’s provision and healing for you.

 

[distracted]

Humble yourself…

and let other people make their own decisions…

 

[strugglingalong]

Honestly, I do think that a fair number of Novus Ordo priests have been influenced more by psychology than by theology, they think more about psychological love than Our Lord’s Divine Love. What they need is more prayer and less feet stuck in the mire of the world. Sad but true. Jesus, send us holy priests with hearts belonging to You alone!

I too have struggled with some psychological difficulties. I was in a psychiatric ward my senior year of high school for making threats against my own life. I’ve battled depression and anxiety and despair. The question remains how much of this battle is truly mental and how much of it is spiritual. Make no mistake, depression and anxiety and despair have been experienced by the Saints. Many of them speak of suffering with them at times. Many were tempted to despair.

Is there such a thing as a chemical imbalance? Yes but it is more rare than our world would have us believe. There is a book, Healing the Soul in the Age of the Brain, written by a psychiatrist, who basically says that same things. I’ve heard others say that too.

Let me say this too. I’ve been through tons of counseling. I’ve been told I should try medication. Because most doctors and counselors buy into the medical model that most everything is a result of biological causes, they can be very quick to suggest medication. There is a definite over-dosing going on especially as it pertains to psychotropic medications! I don’t fault you for not taking medication especially if you’re not a danger to yourself or others.

The priest of whom you’ve spoken sounds fairly self-centered. “It’s okay if you want to suffer but why make others suffer?” Where is the spirit of true, sacrificial charity? Our neighbor in need should never been seen as a cause for us to suffer but as a person for us to love in God.

I do think God can heal us. For me, it means staying close to Him, lots of prayer, spiritual reading and discipline. I’ve learned that a lot of my depression, anxiety and despair came as a result of habitual sins and of living a very, very self-centered lifestyle whereby I basically was feeding all of my sensual desires. When we live for Christ, He gives us strength. Our suffering has value, too, in Our Lord when united to Him in His Holy Cross.

From what you’ve said, dear sister, it does sound like the priest had has own problems. A priest should not, no matter what the problems or difficulties of the penitent may be, react as you say he did. He should be patient, charitable and extending mercy as well as wise counsel.

If you can get by without medication, even if you have sufferings, I say do it. Take your cross to Jesus - He knows your pain and your difficulties; He will be your strength and He still heals. If it comes to a point of being a danger to yourself or others, or if you cannot function in life, then that may be a time to consider medication as a last resort. Trust in Jesus, place all your confidence in His love for you.

And while you’re at it, try to find a good, orthodox, holy Confessor, maybe at a more traditional parish.

Pax Christi tecum.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I thought you were supposed to confess your SINS to the priest, not your problems.

 

[EasterJoy]

I thought you were supposed to confess your SINS to the priest, not your problems.

Well, you’re not supposed to go into what you think is the entire psycho-social case history that lead to your sins, unless you’re asked to do so. If a particular sin is a chronic failure, though, a confessor might ask about that kind of thing.

Honestly, I do think that a fair number of Novus Ordo priests have been influenced more by psychology than by theology, they think more about psychological love than Our Lord’s Divine Love. What they need is more prayer and less feet stuck in the mire of the world. Sad but true. Jesus, send us holy priests with hearts belonging to You alone!

I too have struggled with some psychological difficulties. I was in a psychiatric ward my senior year of high school for making threats against my own life. I’ve battled depression and anxiety and despair. The question remains how much of this battle is truly mental and how much of it is spiritual. Make no mistake, depression and anxiety and despair have been experienced by the Saints. Many of them speak of suffering with them at times. Many were tempted to despair.

Is there such a thing as a chemical imbalance? Yes but it is more rare than our world would have us believe. There is a book, Healing the Soul in the Age of the Brain, written by a psychiatrist, who basically says that same things. I’ve heard others say that too.

Let me say this too. I’ve been through tons of counseling. I’ve been told I should try medication. Because most doctors and counselors buy into the medical model that most everything is a result of biological causes, they can be very quick to suggest medication. There is a definite over-dosing going on especially as it pertains to psychotropic medications! I don’t fault you for not taking medication especially if you’re not a danger to yourself or others.

The priest of whom you’ve spoken sounds fairly self-centered. “It’s okay if you want to suffer but why make others suffer?” Where is the spirit of true, sacrificial charity? Our neighbor in need should never been seen as a cause for us to suffer but as a person for us to love in God.

I do think God can heal us. For me, it means staying close to Him, lots of prayer, spiritual reading and discipline. I’ve learned that a lot of my depression, anxiety and despair came as a result of habitual sins and of living a very, very self-centered lifestyle whereby I basically was feeding all of my sensual desires. When we live for Christ, He gives us strength. Our suffering has value, too, in Our Lord when united to Him in His Holy Cross.

From what you’ve said, dear sister, it does sound like the priest had has own problems. A priest should not, no matter what the problems or difficulties of the penitent may be, react as you say he did. He should be patient, charitable and extending mercy as well as wise counsel.

If you can get by without medication, even if you have sufferings, I say do it. Take your cross to Jesus - He knows your pain and your difficulties; He will be your strength and He still heals. If it comes to a point of being a danger to yourself or others, or if you cannot function in life, then that may be a time to consider medication as a last resort. Trust in Jesus, place all your confidence in His love for you.

And while you’re at it, try to find a good, orthodox, holy Confessor, maybe at a more traditional parish.

Pax Christi tecum.

If you are voluntarily entertaining thoughts of doing harm to yourself, that is both a problem and a sin, just as it would be a sin if you voluntarily entertained thoughts of robbing a bank or cheating on your wife. You can bet that if you confessed that you willfully entertained thoughts about killing yourself or obtaining the means to do it, your confessor would insist that you get mental help for that. If you confess that you drink or eat to excess, then he might want to ask some questions about that, too. It depends.

Our failures are usually not either/or, sin or psychology. A combination of sin and lack of virtue can be expected to have psychological consequences. If you misuse your body, that is a sin. Once you hurt yourself, it is a medical problem. You need treatment. Some things, like a heart attack, happen to people who did not abuse their bodies, too. Mental health works the same way.

There is apparently a problem in the clinical criteria for depression, as these currently allow for a rather small number of reasons that a mentally healthy person might exhibit the symptoms of clinical depression. For instance, if your husband dies, clinicians will expect you to be off your feed, morose, joyless, have trouble sleeping, and so on for a period of time. If your business fails or your husband leaves you for a 20 year old, however, that does not currently meet the current criteria. There are clinicians who by common sense do not diagnose clinical depression when there is a good reason for these feelings, but there are some who “go by the book”, and therefore basically attempt to medicate people who are simply experiencing real life. Then there is the aspect of whether health insurance will pay for the help you do need… it is all kind of complicated, unfortunately.

As for putting up with suffering, be careful about that advice. It has its place, but…Needless suffering can cause needless wear and tear on the body, not just the mind, just as improperly medicating to relieve symptoms can interfere with treating causes. Failing to treat mental illness can be a failure to treat the body. In other words, there are times when treating pain is the most morally correct course, while sometimes refraining from medical relief is the better course. We are to do what is right, whether we like it or not. That we like it a course of treatment does not mean it is the wrong course.

 

[elts1956]

can psych disorders be found in blood work?? i just wanted to know if my heart was healthy (& cholesterol, etc…) you never experience it anymore?? Well, not to be a smart — but… if you are not depressed at all anymore… maybe you found a way to shut out the world entirely?? I mean, with 35 yrs of legalized baby-killing in this country… that alone would be enough to depress a christian…

that is very true… and a valid point. However, when i enter a confessional, i am far from depressed. My depression only comes here & there… but never when confessing (excpet that this particular priest was enoguh to depress a person… He didn’t depress me, though because i, frankly, had a strane feeling before i went in that something wasn’t 'right" about him… so i was expecting something weird…

Again, you are wrong. If anything, i enjoy life a little too mcuh… My depression comes when i am thinking about the aforemntioned… (abortion) and things like that…
No… Catholics in general do not show their joy (not like some Protestnats do…).

i drink one 1/2 glass of wine sometimes… If that is self-medicating, i guess i am… Considering all i have heard about the health benefits of wine, i am probably not drinking enough… it wouldn’t do him any good. I am NOT going there… Period-End of Sentence… i don’t have a seroius mental disorder (more emotional than mental) that cannot be healed (albeit over a period of time) by Jesus Christ… and my submission to him…

i appreciate the advice but i do not trust anyone… If you knew a tip of the iceberg of what i have been through, you would understand why. I am NOT going to share my “stuff” with any human being… PTSD that is caused by human evil is the hardest to “cure”… I have worked on my issues ad nauseum… and i have concluded that that is one thing that is NOT going to change about me… my lack of trust in humans…

There are some things we humans just have to accept… I think that americans in particular, humans in general, are always tryign to perfect things… It’s like: See a problem?? Well, we have the answer… or if we don’t, this or that other person (expert) over ther has the answer… But whatever you do… do not ACCEPT things as they are… You can change, you can change… Do whatevery you can to perfect [whatever]

Well, i believe in accepting things that one cannot change… and another thing: How do we always know that God even wants us to work on changing any given thing??

May God’s will be done… not my own…

Dear Distracted you answered Easter Joy:
‘you never experience it anymore?? Well, not to be a smart — but… if you are not depressed at all anymore… maybe you found a way to shut out the world entirely?? I mean, with 35 yrs of legalized baby-killing in this country… that alone would be enough to depress a christian…’

First of all, depression is quite different from feelings of sadness, or that “blue” feeling we all have from time to time. If you have bouts of depression, you know they last for longer periods of time and are much more difficult to battle. I am unhappy about the baby killing, but I don’t think about it on a daily basis. Am I angry about it and do I get frustrated about it? Yes, but until we
Christians can come together and find a way to change the circumstances I see no need to dwell on such things. I would think you do, which is one sign of depression.

Also, in your first post, you asked if anyone else had ever experienced the same problem with priests during confession that you have. Apparently, none have. They have given you suggestions to seek medical help. You have not listened, but protest you will not, under any circumstances, seek professional help. This is a very foolish stance.

You say you don’t even know if Christ wants us to change anything. Well, you came here. What were you expecting? Support and hear someone say, “Gee, you poor thing, that priest was really terrible”. I don’t know why he walked out of the confessional, but perhaps he was just tired of hearing you talk in circles??? He knew you weren’t willing to take his advice, which was probably very good, so why stay and listen to your justifications of why you are the way you are?

“Lord grant me the Serenity to accept those things I cannot change, (others, circumstances) the courage to change the ones I can (yourself) and the WISDOM to know the difference.”

 

[distracted]

Honestly, I do think that a fair number of Novus Ordo priests have been influenced more by psychology than by theology, they think more about psychological love than Our Lord’s Divine Love. What they need is more prayer and less feet stuck in the mire of the world. Sad but true. Jesus, send us holy priests with hearts belonging to You alone!

I too have struggled with some psychological difficulties. I was in a psychiatric ward my senior year of high school for making threats against my own life. I’ve battled depression and anxiety and despair. The question remains how much of this battle is truly mental and how much of it is spiritual. Make no mistake, depression and anxiety and despair have been experienced by the Saints. Many of them speak of suffering with them at times. Many were tempted to despair.

Is there such a thing as a chemical imbalance? Yes but it is more rare than our world would have us believe. There is a book, Healing the Soul in the Age of the Brain, written by a psychiatrist, who basically says that same things. I’ve heard others say that too.

Let me say this too. I’ve been through tons of counseling. I’ve been told I should try medication. Because most doctors and counselors buy into the medical model that most everything is a result of biological causes, they can be very quick to suggest medication. There is a definite over-dosing going on especially as it pertains to psychotropic medications! I don’t fault you for not taking medication especially if you’re not a danger to yourself or others.

The priest of whom you’ve spoken sounds fairly self-centered. “It’s okay if you want to suffer but why make others suffer?” Where is the spirit of true, sacrificial charity? Our neighbor in need should never been seen as a cause for us to suffer but as a person for us to love in God.

I do think God can heal us. For me, it means staying close to Him, lots of prayer, spiritual reading and discipline. I’ve learned that a lot of my depression, anxiety and despair came as a result of habitual sins and of living a very, very self-centered lifestyle whereby I basically was feeding all of my sensual desires. When we live for Christ, He gives us strength. Our suffering has value, too, in Our Lord when united to Him in His Holy Cross.

From what you’ve said, dear sister, it does sound like the priest had has own problems. A priest should not, no matter what the problems or difficulties of the penitent may be, react as you say he did. He should be patient, charitable and extending mercy as well as wise counsel.

If you can get by without medication, even if you have sufferings, I say do it. Take your cross to Jesus - He knows your pain and your difficulties; He will be your strength and He still heals. If it comes to a point of being a danger to yourself or others, or if you cannot function in life, then that may be a time to consider medication as a last resort. Trust in Jesus, place all your confidence in His love for you.

And while you’re at it, try to find a good, orthodox, holy Confessor, maybe at a more traditional parish.

Pax Christi tecum.

thank you so much for your words. Just reading it had a healing effect on me… because it is always nice to know that someone understands… what i am saying…When people argue and disagree with you all the time, you begin to feel very lonely and … you CAN feel depressed… Even so, i have learned to rise above what people think. I have lived long enough to see how wrong many people are, generally speaking, about mnay different htings… particularly concerning those they criticize… i speak of myself here also… but i can honestly say i only get irritated with people who attack me first… or attack someone else, for no good reason… anyay…

It was weird about the priest’s behavior… He just started acting “weird” almost as soon as i opened my mouth… I guess i should make more of an effort to pray for him. Those who are (or seem to be) away from Christ… need our prayers more than anyone… (If i could just stop hating him! ) Just kidding…

I was going to see a confessor today whom i thought would be good to talk to (even though he does seem to talk about psychology too much… so maybe he really isn’t the right oen for me to go to… but at least he listens…). But then i asked Jesus waht he wanted me to do… and i heard some words that i htoght came from him (made total sense tht he would want me to do what i heard i should do)… so i put off seeing the priest. I think that gettingg outside oneself, as you mention, is one of the best ways to get “better”.

About your problems in adolescences… I think maybe all or most of us have been there… more or less. Adolescence is a strange phase in life… Hope you are doing better now - WAY…

 

[distracted]

I thought you were supposed to confess your SINS to the priest, not your problems.

kinda hard to do when he doesn’t listen to a word you say -

Did you read the OP …??

 

[distracted]

Failing to treat mental illness can be a failure to treat the body. e.

So uh…

Who says i have one of those???

oh yeah… you must be referring to the priest who knew me as well as God does after he heard 3 words come of out of my mouth…

 

[EasterJoy]

So uh…

Who says i have one of those???

oh yeah… you must be referring to the priest who knew me as well as God does after he heard 3 words come of out of my mouth…

I was referring to this advice, not you:
“If you can get by without medication, even if you have sufferings, I say do it. Take your cross to Jesus - He knows your pain and your difficulties; He will be your strength and He still heals. If it comes to a point of being a danger to yourself or others, or if you cannot function in life, then that may be a time to consider medication as a last resort.”

Failure to treat a mental illness CAN be a failure to treat the body. I’m not saying that you have a mental illness, nor that any illness, mental or otherwise, that you might have is an illness that you are morally bound to accept treatment for. I’m saying that advising someone over the internet that psychiatric medications should only be used a last resort is too extreme.

 

[distracted]

I

Failure to treat a mental illness CAN be a failure to treat the body. I’m not saying that you have a mental illness, nor that any illness, mental or otherwise, that you might have is an illness that you are morally bound to accept treatment for. I’m saying that advising someone over the internet that psychiatric medications should only be used a last resort is too extreme.

well, its an extreme to give anyone the advice to use drugs also… Who knows what all side effects those drugs have…

I’ll tell you who - God…

And if God wnated me to use meds… He would have put them in either my body or the food i eat…

& he does… because chocolate, for example, boosts seritonin levels which helps with mood… ditto coffee…

I don’t trust psych docotrs… or anyone else for that matter… I trust Jesus and ony Jesus…