Priests ordained against their will?

Status
Not open for further replies.
HomeschoolDad

HomeschoolDad

Administrator
Staff member
Was it ever the practice in the Church (either East or West) to ordain men against their will?

I seem to recall a reference, don’t know where, don’t know when, haven’t been able to find it online, of ordinands being chained to the floor as they were being ordained. If this was ever the practice, could this have been mere symbolism — “you are now a slave to Christ” — or could it have been to make sure unwilling men didn’t bolt and run away?

And would orders in this case be valid?
 
Holy Orders is like the sacrament of Matrimony. Full consent must be obtained.
 
Marriages are often annulled because an essential element of the consent is lacking. Are ordinations ever annulled for the same reason?
 
EZweber said:
Holy Orders is like the sacrament of Matrimony. Full consent must be obtained.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is true, but what if it is less than full consent?

There can be any number of external pressures in either sacrament. In the case of matrimony, there is the legendary “shotgun wedding”, as well as social pressures, expectations that temporal goods will be maintained (to ensure the continuation of estates, maintenance of royal and noble bloodlines, alliances between kingdoms in the case of monarchy, and so on).

Likewise, could there have been pressures to be ordained in medieval societies — “God has called you, the bishop has called you, the people of God have proclaimed you worthy — “Axios!” — and all of this manifests God’s will for you and for His Church, not necessarily what you want or don’t want”?

The personal wishes of individuals have not always been paramount as they are in today’s modern society. What, also, of the tribes and kingdoms baptized en masse when their kings or leaders converted to Christianity? “Baptize them all, God will know His own”.
 
Bernoulli said:
Marriages are often annulled because an essential element of the consent is lacking. Are ordinations ever annulled for the same reason?
Click to expand...
I know that ordinations are invalidated for canonical defects such as having attempted suicide and not having received a dispensation, so I presume it is possible. It would be pretty unlikely though.
 
The canon law suggests that ordinations would be valid, but the ordained cannot exercise the order:
Can. 1044 §1 The following are irregular for the exercise of orders already received:
1° one who, while bound by an irregularity for the reception of orders, unlawfully received orders;
– –

§2 The following are impeded from the exercise of orders:
1° one who, while bound by an impediment to the reception of orders, unlawfully received orders;
– –
Click to expand...
 
My question was not so much whether orders conferred against the will of the ordinand would be invalid — though that, too, is a concern — but whether men were ever ordained against their will, in earlier times that were unlike ours, and whether actual physical force was ever employed to make sure that at least the externals of the ordination did, in fact, take place.
 
There is a long discernment period and I highly doubt if any priest is being ordained against their will. This is a hypothetical and almost nonsense debate for that very fact. There are surely men who want to be ordained but their mentors, instructors and such do not let them proceed because they know their want is not sincere. I think everyone is even more careful these days about who proceeds.

Maybe in the middle ages, a middle son begrudgingly was ordained and rather be the earl or sir whoever the eldest brother was and had the choice to be ordained or run away into the woods and live as a hermit. It’s like someone
 
thelibrarian said:
There is a long discernment period and I highly doubt if any priest is being ordained against their will. This is a hypothetical and almost nonsense debate for that very fact.
Click to expand...
In the modern era, when we are so concerned — I would even say obsessed — with what each and every individual “wants”, it is indeed hypothetical, and to chain a man down to the floor and ordain him would be nonsense. It just doesn’t happen.

However, not all societies have always been like this. I am not saying that this was right, just stating the fact. Chinese culture, to use one example, has never been about the individual above all things. It is all about the greater good as they perceive it. Arranged marriages have been the norm in many, many societies. As I noted, entire kingdoms were baptized when the king converted to Catholicism. And so on.

As I have mentioned in another post, we had a saying when I was growing up, “it’s not what you want, it’s what God wants”. I find it very, very good for one’s spiritual life, as well as one’s temporal happiness, to look at life and at oneself and say “Is what I want, or prefer, really the best way to go? Does God have other plans? Have those plans manifested themselves in my life’s circumstances? Might I look at my life, for a moment forget about myself, and see the goodness in something I don’t even necessarily want or like? And might I concentrate more on liking what I have, rather than having what I want?”.
 
There were definitely men who were made bishops against their will in the early days of the Church. Often they were hermits who wanted to continue that lifestyle, or educated men just passing through an area on their way someplace else, and they would be grabbed and made bishop, sometimes locked up to get them to say yes.

I have not heard of forced ordinations however. As someone else said, there were probably men who were forced to be a priest or alternatively forced to marry, due to family pressure.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
and they would be grabbed and made bishop, sometimes locked up to get them to say yes.
Click to expand...
That sort of thing, I have heard about. The important point would be that they were “locked up” until they agreed. In other words, they had to agree to let it happen. If they were unwilling, they were not ordained/consecrated.

The notion of guys being chained to the floor, though, due to the fact that they did not want to be there…and yet they were ordained? Never heard of such a thing. Which doesn’t mean it could never have happened.

Dan
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top