Priests out of uniform

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Petergee said:
That’s the point. In receiving Holy Orders, a weak and unworthy man is given a special gift from God to serve and minister to God’s people through His Word and Sacraments. When a priest says, through his words or actions, “hey I’m just like you laymen”, he is throwing God’s priceless gift back into His face and saying that the gift is worthless and didn’t change him at all. When Joe Bloggs, layman, becomes ordained, he doesn’t remain just plain Joe Bloggs, he becomes Father Joe Bloggs,** another Christ!**
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How is a priest/religious who is following his promise/vow of obedience to his bishop/superior saying “hey I’m just like you laymen”?
 
Petergee said:
I didn’t say they weren’t trying to do anything extra in any area. I’m talking about the area of clerical dress, where some seem to think that “this is the legal minimum and that’s what I’m doing” is the end of the argument.
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This is my take.

We have a requirement and you as a layman have no authority to require more.

I never said that I do the “minimum”. That is not my argument.
 
StTommyMore said:
Since when is another’s piety anyone else’s business?
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It’s not. I was answering the claim that the opinion that priests should obey** the rules set down by the pope and bishops** regarding clerical clothing, is merely a popular opionion on CAF but not the opinion of others not on CAF.
 
ByzCath said:
How is a priest/religious who is following his promise/vow of obedience to his bishop/superior saying “hey I’m just like you laymen”?
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He’s not. All we are asking is that priests obey their superiors in this matter.
We have a requirement and you as a layman have no authority to require more.
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Nobody here has required more.
I never said that I do the “minimum”. That is not my argument.
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Good.
 
Petergee said:
It’s not. I was answering the claim that the opinion that priests should obey** the rules set down by the pope and bishops** regarding clerical clothing, is merely a popular opionion on CAF but not the opinion of others not on CAF.
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Just the same, we all have enough to worry about on our own without concerning ourselves with the obedience (or lack thereof) of others. We do not have to answer for another’s behavior for good or ill, and as such, we have no right to criticize another before our own lives are in order. I mean honestly, this thread is a level of nitpicking that is mind-boggling. I mean seriously, with the serious problems facing the Church, do you honestly feel the best way to spend our energies is to complain about whether or not individual priests are wearing their collar when they are going grocery shopping?
 
fkb said:
Code: 
We diocesan priests have never taken vows of poverty...
Code: 
Or a vow of obedience. Only religious make vows. Secular clergy make promises of celibacy and obedience.
As a layman reading the above exchange between two clergy, my heart sank as it came across as being proud that poverty and obedience could be opted out-of. Sadly, it diminishes some of the luster that I once saw in the priesthood as being Christ’s representatives to “lead” the rest of us. But I guess that is the state of things.

Look beyond your laity trying to strip you of “rights” and see how much they adore you, as evidence on both sides of this discussion. Are they perhaps over-zealous of the uniform, some may be, but most are balanced in their perception.

So in the end, you will dress as you like, but I hope you will take the voice of your flock to heart. After all, what is being suggested is in the end a noble thing.

With great respect,

FKB
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In the Eastern Church, bishops are picked from the monastic life. I have a friend that is about to take monastic vows in a Benedictine community. He’s been a Diocesan priest for almost 30 years. In order to do that he must get permission from his ordinary, the bishop. People have the most interesting perceptions about the priesthood and religious life. I personally believe that all single priests should belong to religious communities, like Franciscans, Benedictines, Dominicans, etc. No offense, but I’m not a fan of Jesuits for reasons I won’t go into. It’s just a personal preference.
 
StTommyMore said:
Just the same, we all have enough to worry about on our own without concerning ourselves with the obedience (or lack thereof) of others. We do not have to answer for another’s behavior for good or ill, and as such, we have no right to criticize another before our own lives are in order.
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If our brother does wrong, we are commanded by Christ to bring it to his attention and to rebuke him for it and tell him to correct it. This applies even to laymen correcting priests. Some laymen have even corrected popes for their bad behaviour. Yes we must put our own lives in order first. But that does not mean we cannot make any criticism of others until we outrselves have become living saints.
I mean honestly, this thread is a level of nitpicking that is mind-boggling. I mean seriously, with the serious problems facing the Church, do you honestly feel the best way to spend our energies is to complain about whether or not individual priests are wearing their collar when they are going grocery shopping?
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Yes because whether or not priests obey this rule affects us the laity and even affects non-Catholics and non-Christians. It’s not just a personal matter between the priest and his bishop or the pope.
 
I know for a fact that the priest in our parish where shorts under their habits. I’ve seen them many times leave the office in civilian cloths. One of them dons his habit at will just to be comfortable. But if you wore a long dress too you’d see the need to wear clerics. I feel we’re concentraiting more on the externals than the internals. Wearing a habit or cleric does not make the man or woman. If the clerics acts like a …dissenter… he gravely misrepresents the Church. Such should be said, and is, about the scandals. Those priests need interior conversion, not a habit or clerical suit. And if it seems like I’m jumping sides its because I look at the person, not the office. If the person doesn’t act like a true Christian, whether wearing clerics all the time or not, I don’t consider them Christ like.
 
Petergee said:
If our brother does wrong, we are commanded by Christ to bring it to his attention and to rebuke him for it and tell him to correct it. This applies even to laymen correcting priests. Some laymen have even corrected popes for their bad behaviour. Yes we must put our own lives in order first. But that does not mean we cannot make any criticism of others until we outrselves have become living saints.

Yes because whether or not priests obey this rule affects us the laity and even affects non-Catholics and non-Christians. It’s not just a personal matter between the priest and his bishop or the pope.
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THIS IS A MATTER OF DRESS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How is this for fraternal correction: you are not as holy as you think you are. Stop holding yourself up as some kind of spiritual paragon.
 
PbloPicasso said:
I know for a fact that the priest in our parish where shorts under their habits. I’ve seen them many times leave the office in civilian cloths. One of them dons his habit at will just to be comfortable. But if you wore a long dress too you’d see the need to wear clerics. I feel we’re concentraiting more on the externals than the internals. Wearing a habit or cleric does not make the man or woman. If the clerics acts like a …dissenter… he gravely misrepresents the Church. Such should be said, and is, about the scandals. Those priests need interior conversion, not a habit or clerical suit. And if it seems like I’m jumping sides its because I look at the person, not the office. If the person doesn’t act like a true Christian, whether wearing clerics all the time or not, I don’t consider them Christ like.
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The rules (at least for Latin-rite priests in most western countries) say that if a priest is doing some activity where his cassock (the black “dress”) would be a hindrance, he may wear a black shirt, jacket and trousers instead (still with a clerical collar of course).
 
StTommyMore said:
THIS IS A MATTER OF DRESS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! How is this for fraternal correction: you are not as holy as you think you are. Stop holding yourself up as some kind of spiritual paragon.
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I’m not. In fact I specifically said in the very passage you quoted that I am not a living saint. In fact I am probably the worst sinner here. But I at least try to obey the Church’s minimal rules. All I am asking is that priests do the same.
 
Petergee said:
I’m not. In fact I specifically said in the very passage you quoted that I am not a living saint. In fact I am probably the worst sinner here. But I at least try to obey the Church’s minimal rules. All I am asking is that priests do the same.
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All I know is that I have had my fill. Too many people here just want something to criticize. Instead of supporting our priests, you complain. Next time you wonder why there is a vocations crisis, take a long look in the mirror. If you would devote as much energy to actually supporting our priests as you do to complaining and criticizing, there would be a lot more men entering Holy Orders.
 
StTommyMore said:
All I know is that I have had my fill. Too many people here just want something to criticize. Instead of supporting our priests, you complain. Next time you wonder why there is a vocations crisis, take a long look in the mirror. If you would devote as much energy to actually supporting our priests as you do to complaining and criticizing, there would be a lot more men entering Holy Orders.
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Personally, I spend far more time and energy supporting priests than complaining about and criticising them.
 
padreb said:
Why does everyone insist on not paying any attention to the canon law and directives of the USSCB quoted earlier. It is stated quite clearly what a priest should wear in public. 🤷
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Arcchbishop Dolan (new president of the USCCB) recently appeared in an interview in “lay clothes.” If the hierarchy of the Church is using its own “common sense” as to when to wear what, then it follows that everyone else will as well.
 
padreb said:
Canon law and the directives from the USSCB are clear on how a priest should dress in public, I don’t understand why so many people think its ok to disregard this.
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I myself are far more upset (although this would belong to a different thread) about nuns wearing shorts and certain orders of them practicing Wicca.

If a priest isn’t wearing a collar 24/7 thats okay with me, but when I see a nun dressed immodestly or worse yet practicing the occult to me that’s far worse.
 
Nuns practicing Wicca???:eek: Please tell me that can’t be right…
utah_rose said:
I myself are far more upset (although this would belong to a different thread) about nuns wearing shorts and certain orders of them practicing Wicca.

If a priest isn’t wearing a collar 24/7 thats okay with me, but when I see a nun dressed immodestly or worse yet practicing the occult to me that’s far worse.
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