Priests out of uniform

[Petergee]

That is good. Only a true priest can help your soul. in these later times it is getting to be a battle. I see articles on the internet about how to dress and act like a priest to get free stuff from people.

That’s very sad. But I suggest one way to combat that problem would be for all REAL priests to always wear distinctive clothing when in public. That way people would be more used to seeing (men they know to be) priests around the place, and people wouldn’t find it such a rarity to actually meet someone they know to be a priest so they wouldn’t then want to shower him with gifts etc so much.

maybe we do need ID cards these days. but those can be forged also.

Well you could carry a laminated copy of your official permission to act as a priest signed by your bishop or religious superior. Then if anyone had any doubts he could contact the diocesan office or the monastery.

I’d like to say “it should be obvious after a few minutes’ conversation whether a man is a real priest or a fake priest”. But sadly seeing the way that some real priests behave and act, that’s not true.

 

[Petergee]

Priests need days off to function properly, and if they want to take a hike for example or ski it would look ridiculous with clerical garb on.

Yes, if he’s going on a 12-hour cross country hike in the mountains maybe. Or if skiing he could wear his waterproofs over his clerical garb so he could be in it when he takes them off and goes inside.

Other than these types of extraordinary situations requiring specialist clothing, if he’s just going about his normal business - shopping, travelling, going for a walk, going to a dinner, visiting friends or family, going to the doctor, bank, etc. etc. he should be wearing clericals.

 

[FrCorey]

Nothing like a nice pint of Guinness!!

and just try going into a bar in your cleric to get one…

 

[StTommyMore]

I am simply amazed at how many laymen are willing to issue decrees on how a priest should practice his ministry. No wonder there is a problem with vocations! Too many laymen who lack the courage to become priests telling priests what they should be doing, and if they aren’t they are somehow bad priests. It is up to the priest and hos bishop or superior, and not up to you or I, how a priest should be dressed.

 

[Petergee]

I am simply amazed at how many laymen are willing to issue decrees on how a priest should practice his ministry. No wonder there is a problem with vocations! Too many laymen who lack the courage to become priests telling priests what they should be doing, and if they aren’t they are somehow bad priests. It is up to the priest and hos bishop or superior, and not up to you or I, how a priest should be dressed.

I don’t see any layman here trying to make rules. The pope and bishops make the rules. We laymen are merely asking priests to abide by these rules. If more of them did, I guarantee there would be more vocations. Why would a young man want to become a priest when he sees the priests he knows bending over backwards to try to prove that they’re nothing special, just regular guys like any layman?

 

[padreb]

I don’t see any layman here trying to make rules. The pope and bishops make the rules. We laymen are merely asking priests to abide by these rules. If more of them did, I guarantee there would be more vocations. Why would a young man want to become a priest when he sees the priests he knows bending over backwards to try to prove that they’re nothing special, just regular guys like any layman?

Very well put. Thank you for saying it.

 

[padreb]

I am simply amazed at how many laymen are willing to issue decrees on how a priest should practice his ministry. No wonder there is a problem with vocations! Too many laymen who lack the courage to become priests telling priests what they should be doing, and if they aren’t they are somehow bad priests. It is up to the priest and hos bishop or superior, and not up to you or I, how a priest should be dressed.

Canon law and the directives from the USSCB are clear on how a priest should dress in public, I don’t understand why so many people think its ok to disregard this.

 

[MarkThompson]

I don’t see any layman here trying to make rules. The pope and bishops make the rules. We laymen are merely asking priests to abide by these rules. If more of them did, I guarantee there would be more vocations. Why would a young man want to become a priest when he sees the priests he knows bending over backwards to try to prove that they’re nothing special, just regular guys like any layman?

Maybe the young man isn’t interested in scoring holy orders to puff himself up as “special,” but instead in living out a a call to a life of prayerful service and ministration to God’s people?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

It is gettting very tiring hearing people say that as long as they follow the absolute legal minimum of requirements which are required to avoid a formal charge of disobedience, they need not bother trying to do anything extra above this, and that they deeply resent anybody suggesting that they should.

I don’t hear anyone trying to avoid a “formal” charge of disobedience or not wanting to bother trying to do anything extra. I’m sorry but that just seems disrespectful to the clergy we do have here.

My priest wears his collar almost all the time…even the times we have had him over for dinner. I’m just saying on his day off…when he might be out for a walk…I don’t expect that he would have to wear a collar. Like someone said…that is between him and the bishop. Sorry but it’s my belief that our priest need a little time off here and there to be effective. Even the Pope feels that. Jesus himself went away to think…

 

[Petergee]

Maybe the young man isn’t interested in scoring holy orders to puff himself up as “special,” but instead in living out a a call to a life of prayerful service and ministration to God’s people?

That’s the point. In receiving Holy Orders, a weak and unworthy man is given a special gift from God to serve and minister to God’s people through His Word and Sacraments. When a priest says, through his words or actions, “hey I’m just like you laymen”, he is throwing God’s priceless gift back into His face and saying that the gift is worthless and didn’t change him at all. When Joe Bloggs, layman, becomes ordained, he doesn’t remain just plain Joe Bloggs, he becomes Father Joe Bloggs,** another Christ!**

 

[Petergee]

I don’t hear anyone trying to avoid a “formal” charge of disobedience or not wanting to bother trying to do anything extra. I’m sorry but that just seems disrespectful to the clergy we do have here.

I didn’t say they weren’t trying to do anything extra in any area. I’m talking about the area of clerical dress, where some seem to think that “this is the legal minimum and that’s what I’m doing” is the end of the argument.

My priest wears his collar almost all the time…even the times we have had him over for dinner. I’m just saying on his day off…when he might be out for a walk…I don’t expect that he would have to wear a collar. Like someone said…that is between him and the bishop. Sorry but it’s my belief that our priest need a little time off here and there to be effective. Even the Pope feels that. Jesus himself went away to think…

Yes and even then the crowds figured out where He had gone and they followed Him there and interrupted His solitude. And instead of telling them “Go away, I’m off duty”, He had pity on them because they were sheep who needed a shepherd.

 

[Eric_Olsen]

Good post!
I too remember the days when nuns and priests would wear their habbits and collars outside of church at whaterver time of day.
I think you see less of it because:

1. They feel ashamed.
2. Lack of understanding what their ordination really means.

Just my opinion too.

WARNING! PERSONAL OPINIONS BELOW!!!

When a priest receives his ordination he is saying that he is giving his life, his entire life, to God for God’s use. I think that priests should look more to someone like St. Vianney and less to Protestant preachers for “personal time” allowances.

Again, personal opinion only and thus, weightless statements, but they are mine and I like them

 

[utah_rose]

I don’t hear anyone trying to avoid a “formal” charge of disobedience or not wanting to bother trying to do anything extra. I’m sorry but that just seems disrespectful to the clergy we do have here.

My priest wears his collar almost all the time…even the times we have had him over for dinner. I’m just saying on his day off…when he might be out for a walk…I don’t expect that he would have to wear a collar. Like someone said…that is between him and the bishop. Sorry but it’s my belief that our priest need a little time off here and there to be effective. Even the Pope feels that. Jesus himself went away to think…

I believe if you are a priest ordinarily wear your collar (and your STOLE for confessions but I still believe if a priest has some time on his own, he’s entitled to wear normal wear. One day our Pastor told us that he and a fellow priest were downtown walking and two Mormon missionaries approached them trying their best to convert them, when they both told the boys that “didn’t they know that we love being Catholic?” In that situation, wearing a clerical collar wouldn’t have been as effective.

Another time, when I was a child, our assistant pastor’s mother lived nearby and he was visiting with her, probably NOT in a Roman collar when a Jehovah’s witness came, and he invited him in. Then he politely took apart all the arguments he was proposing and probably things against the Church too.

So you see, some evangelization can also be done without them wearing a collar in public.
Perhaps some people seeing that they act properly in public and find out they are a priest, may be more comfortable talking to them when they’re not in clerical garb.

 

[padreb]

I believe if you are a priest ordinarily wear your collar (and your STOLE for confessions but I still believe if a priest has some time on his own, he’s entitled to wear normal wear. One day our Pastor told us that he and a fellow priest were downtown walking and two Mormon missionaries approached them trying their best to convert them, when they both told the boys that “didn’t they know that we love being Catholic?” In that situation, wearing a clerical collar wouldn’t have been as effective.

Another time, when I was a child, our assistant pastor’s mother lived nearby and he was visiting with her, probably NOT in a Roman collar when a Jehovah’s witness came, and he invited him in. Then he politely took apart all the arguments he was proposing and probably things against the Church too.

So you see, some evangelization can also be done without them wearing a collar in public.
Perhaps some people seeing that they act properly in public and find out they are a priest, may be more comfortable talking to them when they’re not in clerical garb.

The Mormons and the JWs come to the door of my rectory all the time and engage me in dialog even with me wearing my cassock. Last week 2 Mormon boys were here and wanted to know what "version’ of the bible I used, when I told them I didnt use a translation but read it in its original Greek they were utterly amazed, they had no idea that the bible was originally in Greek (or at least most of it).

 

[fkb]

We diocesan priests have never taken vows of poverty...

Or a vow of obedience. Only religious make vows. Secular clergy make promises of celibacy and obedience.

As a layman reading the above exchange between two clergy, my heart sank as it came across as being proud that poverty and obedience could be opted out-of. Sadly, it diminishes some of the luster that I once saw in the priesthood as being Christ’s representatives to “lead” the rest of us. But I guess that is the state of things.

Look beyond your laity trying to strip you of “rights” and see how much they adore you, as evidence on both sides of this discussion. Are they perhaps over-zealous of the uniform, some may be, but most are balanced in their perception.

So in the end, you will dress as you like, but I hope you will take the voice of your flock to heart. After all, what is being suggested is in the end a noble thing.

With great respect,

FKB

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

As a layman reading the above exchange between two clergy, my heart sank as it came across as being proud that poverty and obedience could be opted out-of.

How can I opt out of something that wasn’t asked of me? Diocesan priests do not make a promise or vow of poverty. Its not an opt out, its simply not part of our vocation. If you misunderstood that aspect of diocesan priesthood don’t blame the priest.

So in the end, you will dress as you like, but I hope you will take the voice of your flock to heart.

This board is not representative of the average parish so let’s not pretend that a small subset should act as the representatives of the majority. That’s not to say that what is said here is without merit, but let’s not try to expand it beyond what it is. There’s room for differences of opinion without implying the other side is less faithful to or less proud of their vocation…

 

[fkb]

If you misunderstood that aspect of diocesan priesthood don't blame the priest.

I clearly do not understand; forgive my ignorance. I blamed no one, but merely expressed my reaction to the exchange since on the surface obedience and poverty would instinctively be traits one would think the clergy would naturally adopt or strive to be, if only because it Jesus exhibited these characteristics.

implying the other side is less faithful to or less proud of their vocation

No one is suggesting this at all, since this would be judging something we can not possibly know. Sorry if the words I used gave that impression. I was strictly talking about the traditional use of clerical attire that appears to have declined, which for some has been an important outward sign of the Church’s presence around us.

Thank you NewEnglandPries.

FKB

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Yes and even then the crowds figured out where He had gone and they followed Him there and interrupted His solitude. And instead of telling them “Go away, I’m off duty”, He had pity on them because they were sheep who needed a shepherd.

so:shrug: I’m not saying our parish priest wouldn’t help someone on his day off…I know for a fact that he’ll answer questions on his day off. But does he have to be in his collar to do that? Or he might get called for “last rites” because he’s the only priest in our parish…that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t put on his collar and tend to his sheep…

What I am saying is that even Jesus saw the need for solitude…to get away… The Pope recognizes that as well. But somehow some of the laity feel that these priests need to be available to us 24/7. That would be very exhausting on our priests. But we think we know better…

 

[Petergee]

This board is not representative of the average parish so let’s not pretend that a small subset should act as the representatives of the majority.

I don’t know about that. I get the impression that if you took a proper scientific poll of the whole practising Catholic population, and of the non-practising Catholics, and even of the non-Catholics, all three groups would overwhelmingly answer “Yes” to the question 'Should Catholic priests wear distinctive clothes in public?"

 

[StTommyMore]

I don’t know about that. I get the impression that if you took a proper scientific poll of the whole practising Catholic population, and of the non-practising Catholics, and even of the non-Catholics, all three groups would overwhelmingly answer “Yes” to the question 'Should Catholic priests wear distinctive clothes in public?"

Since when is another’s piety anyone else’s business?