Primitive Baptism and Calvinism

[Xolixia]

My boyfriend, who is Primitive Baptist, gave me an article to read called “Abstract to the Doctrine of Salvation as Advocated by the Primitive Baptists”. I can’t include a link to it, but if you search for it, you should find it. It is written by Elder David Pyles.

After doing some research, I find that what’s written is mostly Calvinist teaching, and the last two points made in the article don’t seem to bring forth anything in google search. They are “Direct operation of the Holy Spirit” and “Revealing Gospel”. Which may be Calvinism, but what I researched listed five main points of Calvinism as opposed to seven. My question then is this: How do I go about discussing this with him, especially those last two points since I can’t find anything when doing research? I want to be able to discuss with scriptural references supporting the Catholic faith and refuting those points. I could potentially be not looking hard enough, but I figured I’d ask the Catholic Answers people on here. I request that you please actually search for the article and read it before replying. Also, please refrain from saying things like “Find a new boyfriend” or “You will be better off dating a Catholic especially for marriage purposes”, or anything rude or sarcastic. I want to talk about this with him; he gave it to me for that reason. We are both open to discussion. Thanks.

Edit: I see the article is linked anyway, somehow. Wanted to let you all know.

 

[EZweber]

First of all, if you want to access a professional apologist, google Catholic Answers contact us and it should be fairly straightforward from there. I would start with the issues of sola scriptura and the authority of the Church. Predestination is much harder to tackle as it is closely linked with the infinite and omniscient nature of God, which is beyond human understanding. If you need Scriptural references for that, I can supply them. Predestination is possible to refute, but on a personal level I don’t know that much about it, and it deals with more difficult concepts. It also is refuted by authority.

 

[po18guy]

I would contact or call/text Dr. David Anders, who has a daily show, Called to Communion on EWTN (YouTube streamed live). He was a staunch Calvinist who set out to disprove the Catholic Church. You know what happened.

 

[nightshade]

Calvinism is such a good example of what happens when people interpret scripture on their own without the Magisterium.

 

[EZweber]

I will post contra predestination verses as I find them.
Luke 13:6-9 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Lo, these three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down; why should it use up the ground?’ And he answered him, ‘Let it alone, sir, this year also, till I dig about it and put on manure. And if it bears fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.’”

 

[EZweber]

Matthew 23:37 (Christ)"‘O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!’"

 

[Xolixia]

Thank you! I’ll be sure to do that.

 

[spiderweb]

In regards to the Direct Operation of the Holy Spirit, there are things that Catholics agree with, at least in principle. Example:

" the gospel can never serve towards elevating natural men to a state of spirituality."

Although what is meant by a “state of spirituality” is vague, hearing the Gospel does not save anyone, we are saved by Grace (Ephesians 2:5-8).

However there are some things that are scripturally inaccurate or flat out contradict scripture.

" Jesus taught that those dead in trespasses and sins would be quickened by the power of his voice (Jn 5:25-29). In this same context it is taught this voice will also raise the bodily dead at the end of time. A man can give the words of Christ but not His voice , and as Christ will not use man to raise the bodily dead, neither does He use man to raise the spiritually dead."

Actually Jesus did use man as his instruments in both raising the bodily dead and spiritually dead.

Peter raised Tabitha from the dead (Acts 9:36-41)

Jesus gives authority to raise the spiritually dead through forgiveness of sins (John 20:23)
Also through baptism (Acts 2:38, 22:16) which also implies the the Holy Spirit being received through or after being baptized.

Also look very carefully at the texts that are listed as reference and see if they actually say what is being stated that they say. Example: In “Preservation of the Saints” this is really a statement of “Once Saved, Always Saved”.
" Romans 8:29 asserts all who are called and justified are also predestined to glorification. It follows that any falling short of glorification must never have been truly called and justified." and " This cannot be the case for God’s children (Romans 8:33) since they are sanctified once for all (Hebrews 10:10) and are forever perfected (Hebrews 10:14)
It then goes on to say
" The scriptures teach God will bring corrective chastisement against all of His disobedient children" and references Hebrews 12:6-8. Read carefully Hebrews 12:7 “IF (that is a big qualifying IF) ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons.” The article states that “God’s children cannot go to hell” but it neglects to consider the big IF they endure. They will be saved only if they endure to the end (Matt 10:22, 24:13, Mark 13:13). Logically then, God’s children were called, and Justified, even chastened, but if they failed to endure to the end, then they must never have been truly called and justified, which is inconsistent with scripture and logic.

A great free resource just on this topic (and others) is the talk by John Martignoni entitled “Once Saved, Always Saved” available here http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/download