Prince Harry and Meghan

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Regardless of what Meghan Markle’s religion is, her father is Episcopalian and her mother, a Protestant, she will be baptized into the Church of England before she marries Prince Harry.
 
jfz178 said:
The Church now teaches that non Catholics, who are following their religion, can go to Heaven.
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That is not correct. The Church teaches that nobody outside the Catholic Church can be saved.
I would be interested where in the CCC you can point me to your claim.
 
TheLittleLady said:
The law of Christ applies to everyone, not only Catholics. If this young woman has once attempted marriage, she is not free to marry a prince or a king or the guy who works at the oil change shop
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Bingo.
It’s not that people don’t wish them happiness. But I wouldn’t celebrate their marriage because it breaks the commandments and damages the integrity of marriage.
 
thistle said:
That is not correct. The Church teaches that nobody outside the Catholic Church can be saved.
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The fate of non-Catholics, as expressed at Vatican II:

The “Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium” (1964) is one of many documents to come out of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (often referred to as “Vatican II”). The Council was held in Rome between 1962 and 1965. Lumen Gentium" contains in its Chapter 1 an essay on “The Mystery of the church.” Sections 14 to 16 describe the potential for salvation of:

Followers of the Catholic Church,
Members of other Christian denominations, and
Believers of non-Christian religions. 5

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rcc_salv.htm

We lost the high and mighty, “We are the ONLY ones…” attitude long ago.

Section 846 of the CCC says, in essence:

Those who realize the Church’s role and who “refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” cannot achieve salvation or attain Heaven after death.

Section 847 states:

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

So, one outside the Church, who is ignorant of its necessity in his or her life, yet seeks God and follows a good conscience, may attain salvation.
 
tweedlealice said:
The Monarchy is at risk, anyway
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Are you British?
I’m American, so I don’t really care. I mean, it’s kinda fun to watch what other countries’ royals do, but it doesn’t affect my life so if they all go away (and have to make an honest living haha), so what?
 
I have about the same level of interest in Prince Harry and Megyn as I do in Kim and Khloe Kardashian and whoever they’re marrying this week. I do like to see the wedding gowns and the pomp of a royal wedding, and the hats.

But given the situations of William and Harry’s parents’ and uncle’s marriages, and the way some royals have behaved in the past, if they simply manage to have long happy marriages they will be doing well. I wish them the best. It was so sad what happened to their mum.
 
ConstantLearner said:
Section 847 states:

“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

So, one outside the Church, who is ignorant of its necessity in his or her life, yet seeks God and follows a good conscience, may attain salvation.
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You misunderstand. What you have quoted is about invincible ignorance and that is implicit baptism of desire making any such person inside the Church and not outside.

I repeat that the Church infallibly teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. What you comment on is an explanation of how someone not sacramentally baptised Catholic can still be inside the Catholic church.
 
  1. No one is saved through ignorance.
  2. Some might be saved despite ignorance.
  3. We do not know what constitutes invincible ignorance and what constitutes negligence.
  4. “May be saved” does not equal “Will be saved”
  5. Therefore it is possible that every Protestant who ever lives has gone and will go to Hell, and still that statement by the Church would remain infallible and without error.
 
thistle said:
The Church teaches that nobody outside the Catholic Church can be saved.
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Maybe some Church teaches that, but not the Catholic Church!

(Unless, of course, you’re simply attempting to say that there is no one outside of the Church, in which case (duh!) there’s no one outside the Church, so there’s no one saved outside the Church! :roll_eyes:)
I would be interested where in the CCC you can point me to your claim.
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Well, it certainly debunks your claim about EENS, in the section in which it addresses it directly!

In any case, the direct quotation comes from Lumen gentium, paragraph 16 or so. I’ll leave it as an exercise to the reader to refresh his memory… 😉
 
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You could also turn all that around and come up with some equally true propositions:
  • No one is prohibited from being saved because of ignorance.
  • All might be saved despite ignorance.
  • We shouldn’t judge what constitutes invincible ignorance and what constitutes negligence. That’s God’s job.
  • “May be saved” does not equal “Won’t be saved”
  • Therefore it is possible that every Protestant who ever lives has gone and will go to Heaven.
Whether that glass is half full or half empty would have to do with whether a person leans toward ecumenical tolerance or religious bigotry.
 
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Who is considered within the Church?
  1. Sacramentally baptised a Catholic.
  2. Baptism of blood (non-Catholics who die for the Catholic faith)
  3. Baptism of desire - explicit (e.g. a catechumen)
  4. Baptism of desire - implicit (those who fall under invincible ignorance)
Nobody outside the above four will be saved.

The Church does not list who specifically would fall under invincible ignorance because it does not know.
I personally believe that very few people will fall under that umbrella.
 
thistle said:
Nobody outside the above four will be saved.
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In other words, you’re making the empty claim I asserted you were:
@thistle: “No one outside the Church is saved!”
@Gorgias: “umm… who’s outside the Church?”
@thistle: “No one.”

:roll_eyes:
 
Where does it say in the Catechism where YOU get to declare who gets saved? Doesn’t God decide that?

Also, by what authority do you get to interpret the rules made by the Church in ways the Church isn’t even interpreting them?

Or do you just hate other religions? Or are you a troll? Just asking…
 
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Kei said:
A non Catholic who goes to heaven doesn’t get it because of their religion but in spite of it.
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I think that will be true for any human being granted entrance into heaven.
 
Thinking of all the people I know, most of whom are not Catholic, and I’m bummed that they’re all going to go to hell. 😶
 
They and the religious bigots on this thread will have a lot to talk about down there!
 
And how do you propose that Tribunals evaluate the marriages of non-Catholics? What’s your plan to secure the obedience of all 6 billion non-Catholics in the world?
 
Over simplification. Henry wanted an annulment, not divorce. Until the 20th century, divorce was exceedingly difficult and rare in the Church of England.
 
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