Privately dissenting humanae vitae while obeying it anyway

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notredame_999

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can a catholic still receive communion if they don’t use contraception personally, but believe the church should allow it in some very rare circumstances (considering the health of the mother)? Is this a form of dissent which can send a person to hell?
 
No Roman Catholic sins in obedience to Church teaching. God surely will not hold the flock responsible for what they are fed from a pulpit.

“The walls of hell are lined with the skulls of bishops.”
Saint John of the Cross
 
can a catholic still receive communion if they don’t use contraception personally, but believe the church should allow it in some very rare circumstances (considering the health of the mother)? Is this a form of dissent which can send a person to hell?
I don’t believe one can sin for thoughts that stay in one’s mind.

If translated into physical action, that would be sin.

If one persuaded another to their dissident way of thinking so as to “lead them astray,” that might be a graver sin.

But if one keeps their thoughts to themself and obeys what they are taught in action, methinks they would be OK. It’s what you do that matters.

God bless and ICXC NIKA.
 
I don’t believe one can sin for thoughts that stay in one’s mind.

If translated into physical action, that would be sin.

If one persuaded another to their dissident way of thinking so as to “lead them astray,” that might be a graver sin.

But if one keeps their thoughts to themself and obeys what they are taught in action, methinks they would be OK. It’s what you do that matters.

God bless and ICXC NIKA.
Hmmm, I’m pretty sure that your first sentence is incorrect. :confused:
 
**I don’t believe one can sin for thoughts that stay in one’s mind.**If translated into physical action, that would be sin.

If one persuaded another to their dissident way of thinking so as to “lead them astray,” that might be a graver sin.

But if one keeps their thoughts to themself and obeys what they are taught in action, methinks they would be OK. It’s what you do that matters.

God bless and ICXC NIKA.
Not true. What about Lust?
 
I have found that once I did the research I came to understand the Church’s position on her teaching. So I decided not to make anymore pain for myself by disagreeing with her. She cannot be mistaken on moral teaching as she is led by the Holy Spirit. I realized He was much smarter than I.

God Bless.
 
I have found that once I did the research I came to understand the Church’s position on her teaching. So I decided not to make anymore pain for myself by disagreeing with her. She cannot be mistaken on moral teaching as she is led by the Holy Spirit. I realized He was much smarter than I.

God Bless.
Very good response! 👍
 
Stop throwing chapter and verse at her (him?) and stop with the assumption that she hasn’t read and done research. Many faithful Catholics have done a lot of reading, struggling, thinking, praying, and hoping… but yet still cannot reconcile themselves to this teaching.

notredame_999, I think it’s pretty heroic to realize you disagree with something, and then show the Magisterium so much respect that you obey it anyway. I myself was not able to do that. Not only do I think you are not sinning, I think you are showing an amazing level of restraint of will and obedience. Rock on.
 
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 5:28[/BIBLEDRB]
We are talking about a person’s opinions regarding contraception. The passage you quoted has to do with lust and adultery. Let’s not assume that one specific quote applies to every possible unrelated instance! 🙂 Christ is more sensible than not, after all.
 
We are talking about a person’s opinions regarding contraception. The passage you quoted has to do with lust and adultery. Let’s not assume that one specific quote applies to every possible unrelated instance! 🙂 Christ is more sensible than not, after all.
Actually, I think they were showing an example of how we can sin in our thoughts.
 
can a catholic still receive communion if they don’t use contraception personally, but believe the church should allow it in some very rare circumstances (considering the health of the mother)? Is this a form of dissent which can send a person to hell?
Well, do you really believe that you are wiser than the pope? That might be the sin of pride. You should keep praying for better understanding of this topic.
 
If a person is disagreeing with Church teaching, then that is a serious issue, especially on something as important as contraception. Church doctrine is Church doctrine. It is infallible.
 
Stop throwing chapter and verse at her (him?) and stop with the assumption that she hasn’t read and done research. Many faithful Catholics have done a lot of reading, struggling, thinking, praying, and hoping… but yet still cannot reconcile themselves to this teaching.

notredame_999, I think it’s pretty heroic to realize you disagree with something, and then show the Magisterium so much respect that you obey it anyway. I myself was not able to do that. Not only do I think you are not sinning, I think you are showing an amazing level of restraint of will and obedience. Rock on.
This is my answer also.
 
can a catholic still receive communion if they don’t use contraception personally, but believe the church should allow it in some very rare circumstances (considering the health of the mother)? Is this a form of dissent which can send a person to hell?
The Humanae Vitae is not infallible teaching. Above that the Judge about the heaven and hell is Jesus Christ, and this function was not given to anyone else.

Obedience is required, not because it is true, but because we are the Church Militant, and in the military there must be order.

The Humani Generis prefers the rule based morality over the goal based morality.

Until the 20th Century due to the high level of child and childbirth mortality every drop of sperm must have been used for inseminating to have 3 or more surviving childre for adulthood in every family. In in 20th Century this changed. The problem in that the previous 10 childbirth by women reduced to two in the US or below two in many European countries. This is wrong, and as experience proved the emphasis on strict rules did not prevented it.
 
Struggling with Church teachings isn’t a sin if you don’t encourage yourself or others to doubt. When you find yourself struggling, consider that the Church has been around for generations and has stood firm- it’s guided by the Holy Spirit, who will help you see the truth if you ask.
 
No, it would be a thoughtcrime to willfully dissent on the teaching on contraception. You have to give full religious assent to anything taught by the ordinary or extraordinary magisterium of the Church.
 
This article may be helpful: cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffid=115
An excerpt:
The authentic Magisterium represents the Pope’s authority to teach. The Pope exercises the authentic Magisterium whenever he teaches on faith and morals. Whether the document contains infallible statements or not, the document as a whole carries this authority. “[T]he faithful ‘are to adhere to it with religious assent’ which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it” (Catechism, no. 892, quoting LG 25). This level of obedience is further defined in canon 752 of the Code of Canon Law as “a religious respect of intellect and will…. [T]herefore the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid whatever is not in harmony with that teaching.”
Code:
  The Pope commonly uses encyclicals to communicate such pronouncements. Humanae Vitae, for example, contains teachings of the ordinary Magisterium that require the assent of divine and catholic faith. However, the primary intent of the encyclical was not to define such teachings, for they had already been recognized by the Church. Rather, the intent was to lead the faithful in a better understanding of Revelation and apply the deposit of faith to the particular circumstances of our time. The faithful are obligated to embrace such teaching with religious assent of intellect and will and avoid whatever is not in harmony with the encyclical as a whole.
Disagreeing with Humanae Vitae is a failure to meet one’s obligation to give it religious assent of intellect. If one is stubbornly holding on to the disagreement that is probably a sin. If one is struggling to agree but finding it difficult that is probably not a sin. When I was in a similar situation (with a different teaching) I confessed my disagreement in the Sacrament of Confession. This acknowledged that I knew that I ought to agree and also allowed me to receive the grace of the Sacrament to help me to conform to Church teaching. I recommend this to you too.
 
I am a convert to the Catholic faith because of Humanae Vitae rather than in spite of it, so I’ll share a bit.

I grew up in a Protestant family where the norm was that some form of artificial birth control was expected to be used (a marriage prep question would be “what kind?”). I absolutely never questioned the legitimacy of using contraception in marriage. But then I started getting these pulls toward the Church. And I was married to a Catholic who was perfectly fine with my use of contraception (in fact, he got rather angry when I told him I wasn’t going to do so any more and why, but I’m getting ahead of the story).

So, I said “If I could just understand this teaching, I would obey it”. I was unwilling to convert until I was willing to follow the teaching because I didn’t think it was appropriate to call myself Catholic if I were still holding out against a teaching of the Church. Now, honestly, I did not think it could be understood. Now those pulls toward the Church got me started praying the Rosary on a daily basis at the beginning of May. At first, I was offering it for control of my tongue because I’d fallen into a rather bad habit of using the same language that the truck drivers did while I had been working receiving. After two weeks, I had gained that control (to the point that I wasn’t even thinking the words in situations that would have previously gotten a streak of 70% swear words). So, I said to myself, “OK, I’ll pray for understanding of that teaching” … I still thought it was impossible to understand, but I felt it was important to consent to all Church teaching before converting instead of just making a sham of it by still being, in my heart, Protestant.

Well, three days of this went by, and I’m praying the Rosary again and I’m alone in the house when I hear a Voice speak to me. The voice says “Obey.” Like an obstinate child, I met the Voice with “but I want to understand!” and the Voice said “I want obedience.” That’s when I realized Who had been speaking and I was flat on the floor.

The funny thing was, shortly after this, we got an issue of a magazine that we were subscribing to which I forget the name of (this was 13 years ago, after all) which would dedicate each issue to a particular topic. And, you guessed it–the topic of that issue was contraception. So I got the understanding I was praying for after all.

In the end, the virtue is obedience. Obey, but pray for understanding.

And yes, things didn’t turn out as I had hoped … my husband was very angry when I told him I was no longer going to contracept as I guess it had been an “easy out” for him as well to have a contracepting Protestant wife and still consider himself a good Catholic. But I tried that dodge too “OK, God, I’ll obey after I convince him that it’s the way to go …” when I tried that, I got a “Who do you think you’re trying to fool?” and that was that.

Yes, this is private revelation and I did discuss it with a priest prior to RCIA. But the message is one that no one can argue against, and I share it because I was once in that position of “I don’t understand this teaching, it seems cruel, it’s incomprehensible, and there are just some times when it’s wrong”. And now I know better.
 
can a catholic still receive communion if they don’t use contraception personally, but believe the church should allow it in some very rare circumstances (considering the health of the mother)? YES Is this a form of dissent which can send a person to hell?NO
At least according to my confessor/spiritual director!
I too struggle with this issue, as I know my mother, grandmother & great-grandmother did before me!

When I talked to my priest about it, he told me that it was the ***action ***of using birth control that was sinful. Not understanding something is not a mortal sin and not understanding, or even accepting the teaching was not important in this particular case. What was important is that I OBEYED the law of the Church, and continued to pray for God’s grace to understand and finally come to learn to accept the teaching.
And that is the most important thing, I must do both- obey & pray!

It is all part of the journey of faith, my friend! If you don’t have one,
I suggest you seek out a spiritual director. They can be a wonderful resource to help you work through issues like this!🙂
 
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