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Jesusstreet
Guest
It is an evil question, because it is saying there’s something wrong with Catholics necessarily, rather than saying there’s something wrong with the world, and people need to repent and return to GOD. Rather than say Catholics are guilty of sin. Worse of all Catholics, and where Catholics are morally correct you want to destroy that, and point to sin. The devil is playing up his victory. This is the devil’s question, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
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Corki
Guest
Both are, as the author said, horrific. But in terms of lives lost as well as souls lost, I have to agree with the author.I don’t know, banjo. To me, both are equally regrettable. Either, if allowed to go unchecked, will, in my opinion, have very grave consequences.
I am against the death penalty but in terms of the abortion debate it is a classic red herring. The judicial killing of several hundred convicted criminals a year cannot be discussed as if it is an equal problem to the killing of thousands of completely innocent children EVERY DAY. And embryonic stem cell harvesting could increase that number exponentionally.
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estesbob
Guest
Exactly. I too oppose the death penalty but our Chruch does not nor does it result in a anywhere the carnage abortion does. Usually when people bring this up in an abortion thread they are either trying to rationalize their support of pro-abortion canidate s and /or political parties or trying to change the subject.Both are, as the author said, horrific. But in terms of lives lost as well as souls lost, I have to agree with the author.
I am against the death penalty but in terms of the abortion debate it is a classic red herring. The judicial killing of several hundred convicted criminals a year cannot be discussed as if it is an equal problem to the killing of thousands of completely innocent children EVERY DAY. And embryonic stem cell harvesting could increase that number exponentionally.
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catechumen08
Guest
I don’t know, Corki. If you look at it in terms of the number of souls lost, they might be tantamount to each other. How many souls have the actions of pedophile priests turned away from the Church? How many souls would’ve come into the Church had it not been for the scandals? I’m not trying to lessen the effect of pro-abortion sentiments in any way, I’m just saying that the ramifications of either are very grave indeed, and it’s near impossible to ascertain which one whose effects are more profound.Both are, as the author said, horrific. But in terms of lives lost as well as souls lost, I have to agree with the author.
I am against the death penalty but in terms of the abortion debate it is a classic red herring. The judicial killing of several hundred convicted criminals a year cannot be discussed as if it is an equal problem to the killing of thousands of completely innocent children EVERY DAY. And embryonic stem cell harvesting could increase that number exponentionally.
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estesbob
Guest
That is a good point. The homosexual Priests scandal tore the soul of the Church-abortion tears the sould of society.I don’t know, Corki. If you look at it in terms of the number of souls lost, they might be tantamount to each other. How many souls have the actions of pedophile priests turned away from the Church? How many souls would’ve come into the Church had it not been for the scandals? I’m not trying to lessen the effect of pro-abortion sentiments in any way, I’m just saying that the ramifications of either are very grave indeed, and it’s near impossible to ascertain which one whose effects are more profound.
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Holly3278
Guest
Wow. What an incredibly bigoted thing to say.
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estesbob
Guest
So which of the 20 some odd posts in this thread are you refering to?Wow. What an incredibly bigoted thing to say.
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aspawloski4th
Guest
the deinition of prolife primarely is anti abortion, and secondarly anti euthenaisia and anti asissted suicide. the official catechism allows Catholics to be prodeath penalty, and for a just war which in some cases includes premtive. to me prolife means not only being against abortion, but also never trivializing it as an issue as popes and bishops have said its above other issues.Wonder what it means to be a pro-life Catholic who is for the death penalty and pre-emptive war on your scale.
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estesbob
Guest
Correct-generally when someone starts puting the death penalty on the same moral level as abortion their political views are behind it. Somehow they rationalize its ok to vote for a pro-abortion canidate if they oppose the death penalty.the deinition of prolife primarely is anti abortion, and secondarly anti euthenaisia and anti asissted suicide. the official catechism allows Catholics to be prodeath penalty, and for a just war which in some cases includes premtive. to me prolife means not only being against abortion, but also never trivializing it as an issue as popes and bishops have said its above other issues.
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Dale_M
Guest
Perhaps this is your definition, but I am sure there are many people who would disagree with you. Pro-life can be viewed as simply that - pro-human life. It would support policies which promote human life, and oppose policies which promote death.the deinition of prolife primarely is anti abortion, and secondarly anti euthenaisia and anti asissted suicide.
Indeed, but this does not mean that the death penalty doesn’t fall within the pro-life agenda.the official catechism allows Catholics to be prodeath penalty
Can you provide a past example of a pro-life, preemptive war?and for a just war which in some cases includes premtive.
And to stay on topic, I think the author is very wrong to suggest the opinions of people (which can be ignored) are worse than the destructive behavior of priests (which can not be ignored).
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dmelosi
Guest
So murder is just an opinion?Perhaps this is your definition, but I am sure there are many people who would disagree with you. Pro-life can be viewed as simply that - pro-human life. It would support policies which promote human life, and oppose policies which promote death.
Indeed, but this does not mean that the death penalty doesn’t fall within the pro-life agenda.
Can you provide a past example of a pro-life, preemptive war?
And to stay on topic, I think the author is very wrong to suggest the opinions of people (which can be ignored) are worse than the destructive behavior of priests (which can not be ignored).
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estesbob
Guest
It doesnt from the standpoint of the ChurchPerhaps this is your definition, but I am sure there are many people who would disagree with you. Pro-life can be viewed as simply that - pro-human life. It would support policies which promote human life, and oppose policies which promote death.
Indeed, but this does not mean that the death penalty doesn’t fall within the pro-life agenda.
well thats a new one." pro-life premptive war". I am not aware of the US being involved in any pre-emptive wars.Can you provide a past example of a pro-life, preemptive war?
45 million dead children-looks like lot more than an “opininion” to me.How can one ignore that death count?And to stay on topic, I think the author is very wrong to suggest the opinions of people (which can be ignored) are worse than the destructive behavior of priests (which can not be ignored).
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aspawloski4th
Guest
I was responding t a post more than I was t the thread. myself I think they are equil. while a few priests are doing wrong. thousands are who are more defenseless are getting ripped apart in the womb. quite frankly Im sick and tired of abortion being trivialized and skirted. things like the planes flown into the twin towers and the more current bridge collapse t could be God getting a bit ticked off. everyone out there better smell the toast burning, abortion as an issue is not going away, and wont let up any till the unborn have the some protection under the law as the born like it or lump it. the issue isnt going away deal with it!Perhaps this is your definition, but I am sure there are many people who would disagree with you. Pro-life can be viewed as simply that - pro-human life. It would support policies which promote human life, and oppose policies which promote death.
Indeed, but this does not mean that the death penalty doesn’t fall within the pro-life agenda.
Can you provide a past example of a pro-life, preemptive war?
And to stay on topic, I think the author is very wrong to suggest the opinions of people (which can be ignored) are worse than the destructive behavior of priests (which can not be ignored).
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stbruno
Guest
we are comparing apples to oranges here.
Both are wrong…and it’s nonsense to decide which is worse than the other…
Both are wrong…and it’s nonsense to decide which is worse than the other…
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MelanieAnne
Guest
The number of children aborted in the name of “choice” (forgetting always, the choice of the child would mostly likely be to live!) is so numerous that were any other group of humans killed in such numbers it would be called a Holocaust. So that is what I call it ~ the Abortion Holocaust.
The Abortion Holocaust dwarfs all holocausts that have come before it in human history, just in sheer numbers. The figures I have seen on EWTN indicate the worldwide abortion death toll is approximately 5000 per HOUR. This has been going on for decades, so the human death toll is enormous, and too tragic for me to calculate.
Pro-abortion Catholics should be excommunicated. End of story. I don’t care who they are, or how high up on the food chain they are. When they advocate death for innocent children, they are out of bounds. This isn’t a political statement, it’s a statement about what is right and wrong. Life is right. Murder, no matter what you call it, is wrong.
I agree with the previous post that both pro-abortion Catholics AND pedophile priests are wrong and this is apples and oranges and comparisons are nonsense.
Having said that, if the death penalty is legal, I’d sooner see it applied to pedophiles (priests or otherwise) than anyone else. They’re evil to pray on the weakest and most vulnerable among us. To me, they’re more evil than murderers. But regardless of the penalty they receive in this life, I trust there is a special place in Hell reserved just for them.
The Abortion Holocaust dwarfs all holocausts that have come before it in human history, just in sheer numbers. The figures I have seen on EWTN indicate the worldwide abortion death toll is approximately 5000 per HOUR. This has been going on for decades, so the human death toll is enormous, and too tragic for me to calculate.
Pro-abortion Catholics should be excommunicated. End of story. I don’t care who they are, or how high up on the food chain they are. When they advocate death for innocent children, they are out of bounds. This isn’t a political statement, it’s a statement about what is right and wrong. Life is right. Murder, no matter what you call it, is wrong.
I agree with the previous post that both pro-abortion Catholics AND pedophile priests are wrong and this is apples and oranges and comparisons are nonsense.
Having said that, if the death penalty is legal, I’d sooner see it applied to pedophiles (priests or otherwise) than anyone else. They’re evil to pray on the weakest and most vulnerable among us. To me, they’re more evil than murderers. But regardless of the penalty they receive in this life, I trust there is a special place in Hell reserved just for them.
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estesbob
Guest
The point is some of the harshest critics of the church’s handling of the homosexual Priests scandal are those who are also adamant supporters of pro- abortion politicians and in some cases pro abortion themselves. There are also ones who want a ordained women and homosexual marriage For them this scandal is nothing more than a vehicle by which they can push their political agenda on the Church.we are comparing apples to oranges here.
Both are wrong…and it’s nonsense to decide which is worse than the other…
It is important as we repent and grieve over this scandal that we keep in mind there are things that are as bad or worse than this facing us. Our enemies are using this scandal to try and destroy us-often from within.
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catechumen08
Guest
Hi MelanieAnne, I too decry the actions of pro-abortion “Catholics”; however, I don’t know if they should be excommunicated. I agree, though, that they should not receive Communion. The Pope didn’t go so far as to excommunicate pro-abortion politicians, but I believe they’re to be denied Communion. I can certainly understand where you’re coming from, though.Pro-abortion Catholics should be excommunicated. End of story. I don’t care who they are, or how high up on the food chain they are. When they advocate death for innocent children, they are out of bounds. This isn’t a political statement, it’s a statement about what is right and wrong. Life is right. Murder, no matter what you call it, is wrong.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I overstated my intentions. I am sorry.Hi MelanieAnne, I too decry the actions of pro-abortion “Catholics”; however, I don’t know if they should be excommunicated. I agree, though, that they should not receive Communion. The Pope didn’t go so far as to excommunicate pro-abortion politicians, but I believe they’re to be denied Communion. I can certainly understand where you’re coming from, though.
Denial of communion until they reconcile the actions of their own life with respect for all life would work for me too. Their own recognition that they are not worthy to receive communion, and thus not seek it, would also work for me. What I can’t stomach is the Eucharist being given to people who support the murder of babies.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
<<What I can’t stomach is the Eucharist being given to people who support the murder of babies. >>
I’m distressed, too.
But the errant sheep are likewise part of the flock.
If they receive communion unto their own condemnation, it’s on their own heads.
After all, did Jesus deny His Body and Blood to Judas?
Maybe the grace in the Holy Mysteries might lead them to repentance. Can we not hope and pray so?
I’m distressed, too.
But the errant sheep are likewise part of the flock.
If they receive communion unto their own condemnation, it’s on their own heads.
After all, did Jesus deny His Body and Blood to Judas?
Maybe the grace in the Holy Mysteries might lead them to repentance. Can we not hope and pray so?
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