Pro Choice/Abortion “Catholics”

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Not true at all. I simply said not all women become pregnant by choice or have abortions by choice. I said nothing about poverty, this isn’t an issue that only affects the poor. I also didn’t say I agree abortion is a solution, I’m merely stating a sad reality. Do you pretend to know what goes in behind the closed doors of every woman’s home? Don’t twist my words.
 
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What bearing does the small number of rapes have on the fact that 99% of abortions are procured by women who were not raped, and who therefore could have avoided pregnancy by the avoidance of having sex when and with a man with whom they did not want to have a baby?
 
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Annie said:
What bearing does the small number of rapes have
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I think the bearing it has is on choice of language that shows we’re not dismissing these women. Their number may be small but their individual anguish may be large. Debates on this issue can often become abstracted, and can forget the individual people involved. While rare cases may make for poor law-making, I think we should always be sensitive to the fact that those individuals may be reading our words. Pro-life arguments can sadly come across as a little callous at times. I think we need to watch our language a little more carefully than we do.
 
On the one hand, I am willing to amend my statement as I did later in the discussion.

On the other hand, in order to have clear discussions about issues in their general sense, it is sometimes necessary to simply state baldly what one wants to say, without hedging the matter for fear of its being read by an emotionally vulnerable person. Perhaps those who are likely to be so affected should care for themselves by avoiding such topics.

Inisfallen was making one point, and I wanted to counter that point. During the course of our discussion, I have learned a better way to put that point, one which acknowledges that 1% of those who seek abortion did not agree to have sex.

Given that only 1/2 of those women impregnated by rape seek an abortion, I think it is possible to help those women who are impregnated through rape to deal with the situation in ways other than condemning the unborn baby to death.

Thus, this aspect of the abortion issue is a numerically small aspect which has other solutions, such as support through the terrible mess this event makes of her life.
 
LateCatholic said:
Personally, I am disgusted by the Republican view. Republicans are NOT pro-life. They are pro-birth.
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This is a democratic lie said to make a democratic voter more comfortable with their decision to vote for a party that advocates evil. It is the lie they tell to feel good rather than to do good.
 
Have you worked with women in crisis pregnancies?

What have they told you are the reasons they choose abortion?
 
Annie said:
Actually not true. The abortion rate among women 15-44 completed its rise in the first 2 years of Reagan’s presidency and declined thereafter. See my link above.
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The biggest decline in abortions was under Clinton and Obama. There of course is limited sample size, but to claim there is no correlation between the general democratic policies of helping the people and reduced abortion would not be correct.

My personal opinion is that in the 1990’s the Republican party made a concerted effort to woe evangelical and religious voters using the abortion issue as a carrot, even though none of their policies actually help stop abortions and unwanted pregnancies. With all due respect, you are being duped. How can you force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term on one hand, and with the other take away her health care, job security, and safety net with the other? Seems hypocritical to me.
 
EXdrinker said:
This is a democratic lie said to make a democratic voter more comfortable with their decision to vote for a party that advocates evil. It is the lie they tell to feel good rather than to do good.
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Yet you vote for a man that has been divorced twice, brags about committing sexual assault, is proud to be a racist and bigot, punishes and cripples the poor, and separates mothers from their babies.
If you think Republicans are the party of morality you are either ignorant or brainwashed. or both.
I honestly do not know how a Christian Republican sleeps at night. I really don’t.
 
LateCatholic said:
I can go on and on.
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Limited Catholic, indeed…
The destruction of a human life in its most dependent and helpless form is not a religious issue.
Funny, I guess you think, “thou shalt not kill” is not a religious issue either??
 
LateCatholic said:
Yet you vote for a man that has been divorced twice, brags about committing sexual assault, is proud to be a racist and bigot, punishes and cripples the poor, and separates mothers from their babies.
If you think Republicans are the party of morality you are either ignorant or brainwashed. or both.
I honestly do not know how a Christian Republican sleeps at night. I really don’t.
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Unfortunately I was left with no alternative than to vote for him. He was the only viable option left at that point to combat the party of death. Will I accept the person divorced twice and that bragged about sexual assault over the one who advocates for killing babies and intrinsically disordered sexual unions as civil rights that breakdown our culture? It wasn’t much of a choice but one that was very easy to make when the time came. As for your other points, they are talking points of the left and not reality. You should find a conservative that you respect and discuss them rather than rely on leftist drivel.
 
brian_custer said:
yet the “politicians” from “blue-states” are the most rabidly, intense pro-abortion advocates

very sad…

and, frankly, completely inexcusable…
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Yeah. “Pro-choice” candidates are non-starters for me when it comes to my vote. I am perfectly willing to consider a democratic candidate, or from the republican party, I am a center swing voter. Pro-choice though, … well I just move on.

Based on what I see from the Republicans right now, well it looks like there isn’t much to choose from any more. The democrats are no better, thats for sure. Really depressing.
 
You know that your points 1 and 6 are against Catholic teaching? Point 4 is also meant to be handled very carefully, preferably in the home.
 
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By their fruits we shall know them! I like Kavanaugh and Gorsuch – the fruits of Trump’s work so far is not bad at all!
 
OTOH, the biggest increase in {ETC:} abortions occurred when there was an increasing amount of aid as well as access to ABC and education. Consider NYS. Consider the Carter years. Consider that despite already being on Medicaid, many women still get abortions.

The point I want to make here is that poverty does not cause abortions.

Every woman who seeks an abortion is not poor.

What every woman who seeks abortion is is pregnant.

What causes abortion is unwanted pregnancy, not poverty.

And what is pregnancy caused by? Sex.

So the root cause of abortion is sex, not poverty.
 
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Loud-living-dogma said:
By their fruits we shall know them! I like Kavanaugh and Gorsuch – the fruits of Trump’s work so far is not bad at all!
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Well there is economic good afoot, and that is good. Abortion clinics have been closing, and that is good. Trade inadequacies are being addressed… that is good, at least to the eyes of an amateur.

What isn’t so good is impulsiveness… from the seat of the most powerful office in the world. We get to be overcautious about who we put in the White House. The “cure” is no good if it kills the patient.

If your a tiny state like Israel, it makes sense to put up a fence to prevent daily cafe bombings, which have stopped as a result. Even then there are tunnels. Spending billions on a wall that wont be effective while mentally ill people sleep in the streets, well that is just crazy.

We can do better than this. Why should we have to choose between corrupt abortion queens, and megalomaniacs? The pay isn’t that bad. The perks last a lifetime. It is ok to expect better material than what we have been getting.

I should not have to even be pointing this out. Sorry… I am not fussing at you, just about the state of American politics.
 
Annie said:
So the root cause of abortion is sex, not poverty.
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Poverty is not a cause it is an effect:


The above reference is not meant to justify abortions, it is to show Democratic policies are more effective for reducing abortions.

The root cause of abortion is an unwanted pregnancy.
The solution is to make unwanted pregnancies into ‘wanted’ pregnancies.

Catholics cannot solve the problem of abortion because they refuse to limit any type of pregnancy - wanted or unwanted. Catholic policy is and always has been “pro-pregnancy”, regardless of your economic standing.
The more Catholic babies the better. It’s so true it is a meme. If the Catholic hierarchy finally agreed that birth control was a “good” thing, I would change my opinion of Catholicism on this issue. But despite the 98% approval rate for birth control in the USA, Catholics leadership refuses to step into the modern age.

Republicans are far worse. They are “pro-birth”. They don’t care about the health of viability of the baby or other. They just want your vote, so they claim to support “pro-birth” policies.

Democrats (and I’m NOT a Democrat) are the only party that promotes policies that not only PREVENT unwanted pregnancies but also convert unwanted pregnancies into “wanted” pregnancies.

In fact, I am STUNNED that a Catholic would even argue with me. Since when are Catholics against health care? Since when are Catholics against helping the poor? I don’t get it. I think you are all being tricked by the Republicans. They just want your votes, and then they do everything they can to get richer.
 
SeriousQuestion said:
Pro-choice Catholic is an oxymoron.
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Depends on how it is defined I suppose. In Western countries we respect the choice of people to be the way we choose our government, and we respect the laws the chosen government makes, even when we disagree with them. We operate within a law that is based on choice of the wider community. Such is democracy, for good or bad.

Choice is deeply engrained in Western culture, again for good and bad.
 
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LateCatholic said:
In fact, I am STUNNED that a Catholic would even argue with me. Since when are Catholics against health care? Since when are Catholics against helping the poor? I don’t get it. I think you are all being tricked by the Republicans. They just want your votes, and then they do everything they can to get richer.
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I think you are the one being tricked by the left. They always claim to support the poor, but they too are only after votes. They too will do everything they can to fill their own pockets with riches while using other people’s money to “help” the needy. And they never acknowledge that abortion is the taking of a human life, but just treat it as a woman’s health issue to minimize it.
 
You are looking at all these issues with secular glasses on. Also, just because Democrats always want the federal government to solve a problem, that doesn’t mean that the federal government is always (or ever) the best and first solution.
 
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