M
mary_bobo
Guest
Sorry, I don’t agree. There is only one pro-choice and that means it is okey to kill babies. Limiting abortions is not the issue. Stopping them is.
- Status
N
NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
No, the Church wants as few as possible, that is consistent. It is impossible to stop all of them in real life. In real life the best we can do is create situations to have as few as possible. It is applying the teachings in the real world and working within the framework of the real world in what is realistically possible, which is a small step by step process towards reducing them through a broad look at all parts of life. Both sides agree on many of these points and progress can be made in small steps and heels can be undug.
C
Caesar517
Guest
You could say, as you do, that the Church and that pro-choice group agree that there are too many abortions. You could also flip that around, as I did, and point out that the Church teaches that abortion is never acceptable while that group believes that abortion is sometimes acceptable. That is not consistency, that is divergence. The two groups happen to agree on something, but that does not reconcile the differences in teaching.
We shouldn’t be working with this group. They believe murder is acceptable. There is no compromise on life.
N
NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
That is assuming that they find it as not acceptable, which is not true. It is knowing there is a set number you can reach and change and a set number you cannot reach given your given resources of the present. It is working within your realistic means, not viewing it as “acceptable”. This is just one mischaractication which political rethoric has muddied the waters on which makes coming together difficult with the two groups.You could say, as you do, that the Church and that pro-choice group agree that there are too many abortions. You could also flip that around, as I did, and point out that the Church teaches that abortion is never acceptable while that group believes that abortion is sometimes acceptable. That is not consistency, that is divergence. The two groups happen to agree on something, but that does not reconcile the differences in teaching.
We shouldn’t be working with this group. They believe murder is acceptable. There is no compromise on life.
C
Caesar517
Guest
Can you replace the pronouns here and repost this? I’m not sure what you mean.
You’re saying the pro-choice group in question believes that abortion is never acceptable? :ehh:
N
NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
Yes I am, it is about different ways to approach the same problem. Much can be done without a narrow focus on RvW. It is about the situations which often lead to them and trying to work in those ways to head off problems later down the road. If you increase more social support resources and allow for the health of the mother (most people see it as a no win Catch22 situation), and at that point leave it up to the family and doctor.
C
Caesar517
Guest
So we should do what we can to indirectly assist mothers, but then keep abortion legal in some circumstances and leave it up to the mother in the end?
Does the same thing apply to murdering adults? Try to help people, but leave it up to them to decide whether murder is right for them or not – all the while supporting the “right” to murder?
F
Feste_1242
Guest
NewUlm1976_2000, can you provide a link to the website of this supposed anti-abortion pro-choice group?
P
Paradox2080
Guest
“Do these catholics automatically excommunicate themselves from the catholic church?”
Yes.
W
wanner47
Guest
Correct, but that’s like saying, “I think that all pedophilia should be stopped, but since there’s no way to stop it COMPLETELY, then we should make pedophilia legal while we work to minimize it.”
It makes no sense whatsoever. In both scenarios, innocent children are being harmed or killed. We can not tolerate that in the name of trying to minimize it.
ETA: While abortion is legal, it is unlikely it can be minimized very much. Many people who have abortions take that choice because it’s the easy way out, not because they absolutely cannot afford another child. The best way to immediately minimize abortions is to restrict access (i.e., make abortion illegal) in order to stop the people who have convenience abortions, and then work to eradicate poverty and the other situations that may sometimes drive people to consider abortion.
Also, see my signature quote.
J
JessMBH
Guest
I cannot believe what I have been reading on this “Catholic” forum.
No one on this site has posted that they are Pro-Choice, yet they still defend pro-choice people. It is mind-blowing how many “Catholics” can, in good consciense, do this.
All TRUE (yes I said TRUE!! You see that correctly!!) Catholics know that abortion is wrong and it is not a choice. Children are not supposed to be a choice, in that sense. What are we teaching our children and what message are we expressing to our non-Catholic friends? That even though these unwanted chilren are a burden, we must keep them because it is right? Let me ask a question. How many MARRIED (NOT shacked up!) PRACTISING Catholics (going to mass and receiving communion in a state of grace!) go out and have abortions? I bet that number is very miniscule. So why not teach our children all morals? Why not express them to our non-Catholic friends? Think how very wonderful that we express that love-making belongs in marriage and that it is for a husband and wife and no one else to partake in. Why not try to dress our children modestly so that they have a respect for themselves and others? Won’t that help with respecting their bodies? There are so many problems leading up to and following abortion.
Modesty-Obviously, as stated above. God wants us to dress modestly! He loves us and wants us to respect ourselves!
Birth control- It is a mortal sin! Let’s teach/express that inside or outside of marriage that birth control is not apart of God’s plan!
Pre-Marital sex - All of these non-abstinence(pro-birth control) promoting organizations are harming our senses! God make sex for marriage and no other place. When we introduce birth control into young raging hormonal teenagers they see sex reduced to the level of fun and pleasure that they can enjoy anytime. This is not what God wants. After that condom breaks or that pill dosen’t work, that girl–oh how she must be feeling! She dosen’t want a baby! But she was able to sin and have sex, the sin which she thought to be free of consequence- or “free of child.” People need to stop looking at children as NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES to having “fun” and start looking at children as a POSITIVE RESULT of love between a husband and wife!
Why not teach that? We keep saying abortion is wrong and immoral. Yes,it is!! But why not, instead of just condeming this, we try to spread the word to prevent even the action which causes it.
It’s kind of like a gun. You have a gun. It’s on the shelf not harming anyone. All of a sudden you start shooting the gun outside like a maniac(or at least where it isn’t supposed to be show). No one is suffering so no one says anything. When all of a sudden-someone is shot! WELL NOW WE NEED GUN CONTROL. No sweet heart, we need SHOOTING control. That gun was harmless when it was on the shelf!
Our bodies are “harmless” when on the “shelf.” When we start “shooting” everything is fine until someone is “hurt” (i.e. pregnant.) Only then do we try and control it. We don’t worry that someone is shooting (having sinful sex) -we only care that the bullets (babies) are on the right path (still alive).
So let’s think about this, if we get people to keep their guns(bodies) on the shelf, until they can go out to the shooting range (marriage) then our abortion problem should be close to solved.
It’s common sense. I don’t understand what’s so difficult. God’s way is simple. The hardest part is getting this (more and more) liberal world to agree.
We are Catholics. We are pro-life. We believe Jesus is present in the Eucharist. We celebrate the sacrifice of the mass.
Our beautiful and true religion has no gray areas…so why is everyone turning our great religion into a big debate? Go out and read the true Catholic facts! Stop looking into worldy “wannabe conservative” information.
Please.
No one on this site has posted that they are Pro-Choice, yet they still defend pro-choice people. It is mind-blowing how many “Catholics” can, in good consciense, do this.
All TRUE (yes I said TRUE!! You see that correctly!!) Catholics know that abortion is wrong and it is not a choice. Children are not supposed to be a choice, in that sense. What are we teaching our children and what message are we expressing to our non-Catholic friends? That even though these unwanted chilren are a burden, we must keep them because it is right? Let me ask a question. How many MARRIED (NOT shacked up!) PRACTISING Catholics (going to mass and receiving communion in a state of grace!) go out and have abortions? I bet that number is very miniscule. So why not teach our children all morals? Why not express them to our non-Catholic friends? Think how very wonderful that we express that love-making belongs in marriage and that it is for a husband and wife and no one else to partake in. Why not try to dress our children modestly so that they have a respect for themselves and others? Won’t that help with respecting their bodies? There are so many problems leading up to and following abortion.
Modesty-Obviously, as stated above. God wants us to dress modestly! He loves us and wants us to respect ourselves!
Birth control- It is a mortal sin! Let’s teach/express that inside or outside of marriage that birth control is not apart of God’s plan!
Pre-Marital sex - All of these non-abstinence(pro-birth control) promoting organizations are harming our senses! God make sex for marriage and no other place. When we introduce birth control into young raging hormonal teenagers they see sex reduced to the level of fun and pleasure that they can enjoy anytime. This is not what God wants. After that condom breaks or that pill dosen’t work, that girl–oh how she must be feeling! She dosen’t want a baby! But she was able to sin and have sex, the sin which she thought to be free of consequence- or “free of child.” People need to stop looking at children as NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES to having “fun” and start looking at children as a POSITIVE RESULT of love between a husband and wife!
Why not teach that? We keep saying abortion is wrong and immoral. Yes,it is!! But why not, instead of just condeming this, we try to spread the word to prevent even the action which causes it.
It’s kind of like a gun. You have a gun. It’s on the shelf not harming anyone. All of a sudden you start shooting the gun outside like a maniac(or at least where it isn’t supposed to be show). No one is suffering so no one says anything. When all of a sudden-someone is shot! WELL NOW WE NEED GUN CONTROL. No sweet heart, we need SHOOTING control. That gun was harmless when it was on the shelf!
Our bodies are “harmless” when on the “shelf.” When we start “shooting” everything is fine until someone is “hurt” (i.e. pregnant.) Only then do we try and control it. We don’t worry that someone is shooting (having sinful sex) -we only care that the bullets (babies) are on the right path (still alive).
So let’s think about this, if we get people to keep their guns(bodies) on the shelf, until they can go out to the shooting range (marriage) then our abortion problem should be close to solved.
It’s common sense. I don’t understand what’s so difficult. God’s way is simple. The hardest part is getting this (more and more) liberal world to agree.
We are Catholics. We are pro-life. We believe Jesus is present in the Eucharist. We celebrate the sacrifice of the mass.
Our beautiful and true religion has no gray areas…so why is everyone turning our great religion into a big debate? Go out and read the true Catholic facts! Stop looking into worldy “wannabe conservative” information.
Please.
R
rpp
Guest
Lots of people claim to be opposed to abortion, yet pro-“choice”. There is no difference in this attitude than saying, I do not think Jews should be gassed, and I think it is morally wrong, but who am I to impose my will on someone and tell them they cannot murder a Jew?
T
twb1621
Guest
Your absolutely correct.
There is no such thing as a pro choice Catholic, period. Just where are we going? Well let’s see. We have enacted laws and given our approvals for abortion, the selective elimination of the most vulnerable of human life. Some call it the “right to choose” but that sentence rarely seems to go any further verbally. We are working diligently to eliminate the words “In God We Trust” from our currency. Is it that we no longer trust Him? Or is it we no longer believe in Him. We are, in a growing number of our states, supporting the legalization of “same sex” marriages and some barbaric means to pursue stem cell research. We have “drive-by” shootings and assaults performed against our youths by our youths; We discipline children for outward signs of affection when they so much as hug a friend; We produce serial killers who can select people at random, look down the sights of a sniper rifle while hidden and end a life for amusement; We have school massacres performed by our children gunning down our children; fathers and mothers not only killing each other but killing their own infants and children before committing suicide; We have families destitute and living in cardboard boxes under bridges while some corporate executives receive hundreds of millions of dollars in bonus money in one quarter (not including their regular income). Many institutions including commercial businesses will not allow employees to say the Words “Merry Christmas” as a greeting. But it still represents the Celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ whether some like it or not. And on it goes as if the time will never come that we will have to answer for the transgressions of the society we created.
N
newbetx
Guest
Or, “cafeteria catholics”… I know to many here, ignorance is of no consequence. Even their own. Many pro-choicers can be reasoned with and converted. Most won’t go the other way. The key is to love and to guide, not degrade and appear self righteous. A properly worded message wins out over an insult every time.
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
more like pro-murder baby killer heretics.
C
Caesar517
Guest
- Status