Pro-choice Catholics

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century153

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I debated whether to start this thread under Moral Issues but decided to put it under Social Justice because its about, in my opinion, justice for the unborn.

Are there any pro-choice Cathlics out there? I will state right fom the beginning lest anyone out there might believe anythng else given the title of the thread –
Code: 
          **"I AM PRO-LIFE"**
The reason for this thread is to have a calm and civil discussion about abortion. If there are any pro-choice Cathlics out there, please state your reasons for this belief and if possible, please back it up with scripture and Catholic teaching. Also, I would like to know if whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, do you attend chuch regularly and participate in your faith fully?

Thank you – and I pray this will be an inspiring and uplifting experience for all who participate.

To the Moderators: Please montior this discussion and if it becomes vile I ask that you shut it down.
 
century153 said:
I debated whether to start this thread under Moral Issues but decided to put it under Social Justice because its about, in my opinion, justice for the unborn.

Are there any pro-choice Cathlics out there? I will state right fom the beginning lest anyone out there might believe anythng else given the title of the thread –
Code: 
          **"I AM PRO-LIFE"**
The reason for this thread is to have a calm and civil discussion about abortion. If there are any pro-choice Cathlics out there, please state your reasons for this belief and if possible, please back it up with scripture and Catholic teaching. Also, I would like to know if whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, do you attend chuch regularly and participate in your faith fully?

Thank you – and I pray this will be an inspiring and uplifting experience for all who participate.

To the Moderators: Please montior this discussion and if it becomes vile I ask that you shut it down.
Click to expand...
You cannot be pro-abortion and Catholic at the same time. You can be a pro-abortion former Catholic, dissident Catholic, heretical Catholic etc. but you place yourself outside the Church when you support abortion which is roundly condemned by the Church as a non-negotiable intrinsic evil.

I am a Catholic, I go to confession monthly, faithfully attend mass, accept all doctrines, precepts, and teachings of the Church derived from scripture, Apostolic Tradition (T), infallible papal pronouncements and the constant teaching of the Ordinary and Universal Magesterium.

I’m not sure what the aims of your thread are. How can one have a civil discussion about abortion? To what end? Is your aim to convert pro-abortion people to pro-life etc? The arguments from pro-choice people, former Catholics or otherwise, are well known.

I’m not sure what bible citations or sources are necessary to support the Church’s condemnation of abortion because there are so many. Really all one has to do is look to the magesterium for an answer. However if you need some further evidence take a look at the writings of the 12 Apostles in the 1st century (Didache) and the constant teachings of the Church since then that condemn abortion in the most absolute terms. The Didache states:
Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.
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The constant teaching of the Universal and Ordinary Magesterium of the Catholic Church condemns abortion. This has been upheld throughout the ages by the Pope and all the bishops in communion with him…as such error is impossible.

Good luck with your post.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
Iowa_Mike said:
You cannot be pro-abortion and Catholic at the same time. You can be a pro-abortion former Catholic, dissident Catholic, heretical Catholic etc. but you place yourself outside the Church when you support abortion which is roundly condemned by the Church as a non-negotiable intrinsic evil.
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Catholics for Choice

catholicsforchoice.org/actioncenter/CatholicsforaFreeChoice-SpeakOut.asp

Call to Action

cta-usa.org/

Catholics for a Free Choice

catholicsforchoice.org/about/default.asp
 
The “catholic” Universities continue to crank out the pro-choice, pro-noncelibate homosexual agenda catholics.

lifesitenews.com/news/dissidents-baum-and-de-roo-to-speak-friday-at-ontario-catholic-college/

Pro-gay Baum, dissident De Roo to speak Friday at Ontario Catholic college
by Patrick B. Craine
Thu Jan 20, 2011 14:39 EST

"St. Jerome’s University is not unfamiliar with criticism for hosting Catholics who disagree with their Church on key issues. For example, in 2002, they hosted a keynote on faith and public life by pro-abortion former Prime Minister Joe Clark. In 2003, they honoured posthumously Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, the father of legalized abortion in Canada, hosting a keynote by pro-abortion former Prime Minister John Turner."
 
century153 said:
I debated whether to start this thread under Moral Issues but decided to put it under Social Justice because its about, in my opinion, justice for the unborn.

Are there any pro-choice Cathlics out there? I will state right fom the beginning lest anyone out there might believe anythng else given the title of the thread –
Code: 
          **"I AM PRO-LIFE"**
The reason for this thread is to have a calm and civil discussion about abortion. If there are any pro-choice Catholics out there, please state your reasons for this belief and if possible, please back it up with scripture and Catholic teaching. Also, I would like to know if whether you are pro-choice or pro-life, do you attend chuch regularly and participate in your faith fully?

Thank you – and I pray this will be an inspiring and uplifting experience for all who participate.

To the Moderators: Please montior this discussion and if it becomes vile I ask that you shut it down.
Click to expand...
Hello friend, yes there are “pro-choice” Catholics and “pro-life with exceptions folks” on this forum. There have been several threads under Social Justice and Moral Theology. I have been a contributor on the pro-life side with an abortion experience, testifying of the harm abortion does to women. The threads usually start nicely and then it goes ugly. In any case, I’ll be following up with you guys. Keep in mind that we don’t know how our brothers were brought up and what has influenced their beliefs. Peace be with you all.
 
You can’t be both Catholic and pro-choice; if you think you are you are deceiving yourself.** The organizations posted above are not sanctioned by the Church.** :nope: Just so people know. IMO there should be a way to sue these groups for misrepresenting themselves by using “Catholic” in their names, but it’s probably not possible. The best we can do is tell the truth about them so those ignorant of their agendas can be informed. :sad_yes:

**For a link to thread about this in forum of group "Catholic Women Speaking Out Against Radical Feminist Ideology, click here: **forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=528520
 
For the sake of discussion, perhaps ‘Catholic’ can be defined here as one who considers oneself Catholic and/or practices Catholicism (attends mass, etc.). This way, we can skip past all the posts to come about there being no such thing as a pro-choice Catholic. Of course, there is always the question as to what differentiates a ‘bad Catholic’ from a non-Catholic who only still thinks he/she is Catholic.

Of course, I’m not sure many pro-choice Catholics are likely to come on this thread and present their cases. It probably seems like going before a firing squad. We’ll see though.
 
This topic continues to rise and bloom through the parched land that is Conservative Catholicism - that is to say, true Catholicism. I’m not sure why posters continue to bring it up when it has been addressed and fought over time and again, as if forum members have suddenly found themselves on the battlefield at Antietam and the moderators are watching to see if anyone actually draws a Springfield Rifle-Musket.

There is no way a practicing conservative Catholic will ever agree with a pro-choice individual who is or has ever been affiliated with the Catholic Church. It’s a no-brainer. The true Catholic has a duty and a desire to believe all doctrine, all dogma, all ideology presented by the Magisterium. The once-and-perhaps-never-again Catholic, even though yoked by the Church’s teaching that he or she is once-and-forever a Catholic no matter what foul and evil deeds that person may have been involved in, will usually decline any invitation to return to the swaddling safety of the Church, and will go it alone. This person may be of the pro-choice persuasion.

I am pro-choice. The average CAF member may find others in the archives who have made strong arguments for the pro-choice side. It makes no difference what has been said or what will be said. It is all without purpose. What happens is you get to pontificate, and then the pro-choice folks head out on the battlefield with their sling shots, only to be brought down by the sheer numbers of muskets from the other side, the muskets that are allowed by the moderators because they are defending the fort. I’m not even talking about vitriolic posting or name calling. I’m just referring to the fact that the “Evil Other Side” is tolerated only so long, and then a shut-down judgment is made.

If you are not acting the gadfly here, just what do you hope to gain or learn by dragging us all out of our burrows one more time? I’m game, but I do not have the freedom to express the 360 degrees of my view because the threat is always there that the very UNCatholicness of my position may warrant a banishment. Or is that what you want?

gen
 
Barbkw said:
Catholics for Choice

catholicsforchoice.org/actioncenter/CatholicsforaFreeChoice-SpeakOut.asp

Call to Action

cta-usa.org/

Catholics for a Free Choice

catholicsforchoice.org/about/default.asp
Click to expand...
I’m sorry but they are no longer Catholic and I object to them calling themselves Catholic…once they embraced abortion they excommunicated themselves “latae sententiae”. In addition these groups hold a number of other views that are outside Church doctrine…bad news all.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
beafedor said:
Hello friend, yes there are “pro-choice” Catholics and “pro-life with exceptions folks” on this forum. There have been several threads under Social Justice and Moral Theology. I have been a contributor on the pro-life side with an abortion experience, testifying of the harm abortion does to women. The threads usually start nicely and then it goes ugly. In any case, I’ll be following up with you guys. Keep in mind that we don’t know how our brothers were brought up and what has influenced their beliefs. Peace be with you all.
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No there are not “pro-choice” Catholics for reasons I already outlined. If someone has had an abortion or has reformed and no longer support abortion fine. But if they still embrace it…no. You can’t be pro-choice, pro-abortion and be Catholic at the same time.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
Gen, thanks for replying to this thread. What do you mean by being pro-choice may I ask? Peace be with you.
 
genevievelives said:
This topic continues to rise and bloom through the parched land that is Conservative Catholicism - that is to say, true Catholicism. I’m not sure why posters continue to bring it up when it has been addressed and fought over time and again, as if forum members have suddenly found themselves on the battlefield at Antietam and the moderators are watching to see if anyone actually draws a Springfield Rifle-Musket.
gen
Click to expand...
The OP has only been a member since October. Perhaps he or she hasn’t ever participated in a rising and blooming of this discussion.🤷
 
genevievelives said:
This topic continues to rise and bloom through the parched land that is Conservative Catholicism - that is to say, true Catholicism. I’m not sure why posters continue to bring it up when it has been addressed and fought over time and again, as if forum members have suddenly found themselves on the battlefield at Antietam and the moderators are watching to see if anyone actually draws a Springfield Rifle-Musket.

There is no way a practicing conservative Catholic will ever agree with a pro-choice individual who is or has ever been affiliated with the Catholic Church. It’s a no-brainer. The true Catholic has a duty and a desire to believe all doctrine, all dogma, all ideology presented by the Magisterium. The once-and-perhaps-never-again Catholic, even though yoked by the Church’s teaching that he or she is once-and-forever a Catholic no matter what foul and evil deeds that person may have been involved in, will usually decline any invitation to return to the swaddling safety of the Church, and will go it alone. This person may be of the pro-choice persuasion.
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First of all, you shouldn’t assume that one must be a conservative catholic to be pro-life. There are even liberal (in a political sense) Catholics on these forums who are pro-life (though some conservatives are loath to admit that there could be such a thing as a pro-life liberal). Personally, I don’t think abortion should really by a left-right debate (it is by circumstance, not by nature).
I am pro-choice. The average CAF member may find others in the archives who have made strong arguments for the pro-choice side. It makes no difference what has been said or what will be said. It is all without purpose. What happens is you get to pontificate, and then the pro-choice folks head out on the battlefield with their sling shots, only to be brought down by the sheer numbers of muskets from the other side, the muskets that are allowed by the moderators because they are defending the fort. I’m not even talking about vitriolic posting or name calling. I’m just referring to the fact that the “Evil Other Side” is tolerated only so long, and then a shut-down judgment is made.
Click to expand...
The strength of an argument is, of course, largely in the eye of the beholder. And of course you are outnumbered; this is, after all, a Catholic forum. I certainly sympathize with your position. I live on a strongly liberal college campus, where any attempt to defend the pro-life position in a class or discussion in any humanities department generally precipitates indignant harangues from all sides.

If it’s any consolation, I tend more take the admittedly condescending “misguided pro-choicers don’t know they’re wrong” attitude than the “evil demon-posessed murders” approach.
If you are not acting the gadfly here, just what do you hope to gain or learn by dragging us all out of our burrows one more time? I’m game, but I do not have the freedom to express the 360 degrees of my view because the threat is always there that the very UNCatholicness of my position may warrant a banishment. Or is that what you want?
Click to expand...
gen
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Banishment? Why, without the likes of you around, who would their be to ‘pontificate’ to?

Well, continuing with the war analogy, “Once more into the breach, dear friends!”
 
beafedor said:
Sure, I’m French and it is the french word for Catholic.
Click to expand...
(I listed myself in the same ID spot as “catholic”, meaning “universal and all-embracing” and suffered a torrent of backlash from other posters claiming I was deliberately trying to deceive them. There is not much room for creativity here. This is why I asked. ~ gen)
 
genevievelives said:
This topic continues to rise and bloom through the parched land that is Conservative Catholicism - that is to say, true Catholicism. I’m not sure why posters continue to bring it up when it has been addressed and fought over time and again, as if forum members have suddenly found themselves on the battlefield at Antietam and the moderators are watching to see if anyone actually draws a Springfield Rifle-Musket.

There is no way a practicing conservative Catholic will ever agree with a pro-choice individual who is or has ever been affiliated with the Catholic Church. It’s a no-brainer. The true Catholic has a duty and a desire to believe all doctrine, all dogma, all ideology presented by the Magisterium. The once-and-perhaps-never-again Catholic, even though yoked by the Church’s teaching that he or she is once-and-forever a Catholic no matter what foul and evil deeds that person may have been involved in, will usually decline any invitation to return to the swaddling safety of the Church, and will go it alone. This person may be of the pro-choice persuasion.

I am pro-choice. The average CAF member may find others in the archives who have made strong arguments for the pro-choice side. It makes no difference what has been said or what will be said. It is all without purpose. What happens is you get to pontificate, and then the pro-choice folks head out on the battlefield with their sling shots, only to be brought down by the sheer numbers of muskets from the other side, the muskets that are allowed by the moderators because they are defending the fort. I’m not even talking about vitriolic posting or name calling. I’m just referring to the fact that the “Evil Other Side” is tolerated only so long, and then a shut-down judgment is made.

If you are not acting the gadfly here, just what do you hope to gain or learn by dragging us all out of our burrows one more time? I’m game, but I do not have the freedom to express the 360 degrees of my view because the threat is always there that the very UNCatholicness of my position may warrant a banishment. Or is that what you want?

gen
Click to expand...
The labels ‘conservative Catholic’ or ‘liberal Catholic’ are misnomers. Just as there is only One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church this is only ‘a Catholic’. If there were such a thing as a conservative or a liberal Catholic, which camp would Jesus fit into?

Also, if you are pro-choice then by definition you are not Catholic because Catholics are bound to believe all things which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal Magisterium (see Vatican I documents, Chapter 3, On Faith, paragraph 8). It is that simple. Therefore if you were once Catholic and now accept abortion you have excommunicated yourself ‘latae sententiae’ and have placed yourself outside the Church. If you were never a Catholic in the first place then the way you present yourself on this forum is specious. In either event the debate over abortion has been had and abortion proponents have lost. Church doctrine clearly condemns abortion, settled science has determined that human life begins at the instant of conception, technology can now show the baby in the womb thus dispelling the myth that a baby is just a bunch multiplying cells and the DNA of a baby in the womb is unique (a combination of the father and mother). So those who favor abortion have been reduced to the emotional "a woman’s right to choose’ argument and the slaughter roles on.

If speaking the truth makes me a gadfly…so be it; John 18:37-38: 37 “Pilate said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice. 38 Pilate saith to him: What is truth? And when he said this he went out again to the Jews, and saith to them: I find no cause in him.”

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
 
Describing suction abortions as “pro-choice” is an attempt at sanitizing terminology so that murder becomes more palatable.
 
Barbkw said:
Describing suction abortions as “pro-choice” is an attempt at sanitizing terminology so that murder becomes more palatable.
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Vacuum suction is murder but medical abortion is not? If you want to argue the point, argue the entire point.

Here we go again. The term “pro-choice” encompasses a great deal more than whether Sally makes an appointment for an abortion. You know this if you look up the word “choice” in the dictionary. You may think that the pro-choice movement is full of sanitizing terminology, and that is your right. But an abortion is also a medical procedure. This is just a fact, not an end-run around the reality that a death occurs during most abortions.

This is more than a bumper sticker discussion, Barbkw. If the only thing any of had to resort to was quips and one-liners, then I would consider this discussion over before it began.

gen
 
Iowa_Mike said:
The labels ‘conservative Catholic’ or ‘liberal Catholic’ are misnomers. Just as there is only One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church this is only ‘a Catholic’. If there were such a thing as a conservative or a liberal Catholic, which camp would Jesus fit into?

Also, if you are pro-choice then by definition you are not Catholic because Catholics are bound to believe all things which are contained in the word of God as found in scripture and tradition, which are proposed by the church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal Magisterium (see Vatican I documents, Chapter 3, On Faith, paragraph 8). It is that simple. Therefore if you were once Catholic and now accept abortion you have excommunicated yourself ‘latae sententiae’ and have placed yourself outside the Church. If you were never a Catholic in the first place then the way you present yourself on this forum is specious. In either event the debate over abortion has been had and abortion proponents have lost. Church doctrine clearly condemns abortion, settled science has determined that human life begins at the instant of conception, technology can now show the baby in the womb thus dispelling the myth that a baby is just a bunch multiplying cells and the DNA of a baby in the womb is unique (a combination of the father and mother). So those who favor abortion have been reduced to the emotional "a woman’s right to choose’ argument and the slaughter roles on.

If speaking the truth makes me a gadfly…so be it; John 18:37-38: 37 “Pilate said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice. 38 Pilate saith to him: What is truth? And when he said this he went out again to the Jews, and saith to them: I find no cause in him.”

God Bless,

Iowa Mike
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That is my point. I’m sorry you missed it. Catholicism = abhorrence of anything that takes life, as Catholics believe it is only the right of God to do so. And until you are pregnant and wish you weren’t, Iowa Mike, I will keep the torch lit for “choice”.

Actually, I think Jesus was considered somewhat of a radical, else he would not have been arrested, judged and crucified. Or was that just bad politics? What would be the rallying cry if Jesus had not attracted negative attention and been killed?

Jesus wasn’t in either the conservative or the so-called “liberal” Catholic camp. He was a Jew.

gen
 
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