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CMatt25
Guest
Thank you L&L. Yes I meant the collective “our”.
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CMatt25
Guest
Great at least we can agree about private messaging with one another. And I saw you edited your post to reflect my not IDing so even that’s clearer.
C
CMatt25
Guest
Who is Catholic, Bob, could depend on who one asks or where one is.
B
beafedor
Guest
Dear friend, sorry I give you a lot to chew on:
What is a woman’s right of privacy to choose? Do you believe that a scared, pregnant woman who doesn’t find the emotional and financial support that she needs is in a cool, responsible state of mind to enjoy her private right to kill her baby?
Are there grey areas in either supporting or opposing legal child killing? Please use simple, direct words that my poor french brain can understand (the language barrier doesn’t help me to understand all the long political statements).
What do you think that women need abortion for? What does it solve? How does it improve life?
Do you know how a girl feels when the guy who got her pregnant tells her at best: “you are on your own now”? but most likely: “how could you let this happen, you’re in charge of birth control. (slapping) I want you to get rid of that”.
Do you think that “abortion rights” have helped women? Do you think that we mothers are happy to terminate our babies lives? Do you think that a pregnant woman is not a mother in both body and mind? Why would anybody wish for her to be responsible for destroying the life growing within her and bear that guilt for the rest of her life?
Do you think that we have very much progressed as a society when our boyfriends are giving up on us because “my body, my choice” translates into: “I don’t have to have any responsibility in this pregnancy”?
Isn’t it our duty as Christians to care for the poor and the homeless by providing support to our sisters in need? For example keeping a spare room available in case God puts on our way a pregnant woman in need and being opened to adoption?
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catharina
Guest
Nice to learn that you agree about this.
(News to me.)
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CMatt25
Guest
Well of course it would be news to you Catharina since we don’t message.
J
JimG
Guest
That’s good. Ever since the original SCOTUS abortion decisions of 1973, pro-life groups have worked within the states to pass various restrictions. Quite often, especially in the early decades, such restrictions, even when passed overwhelmingly by state legislatures, were ruled unconstitutional by various courts.
In the U.S. Congress, it took three tries simply to pass legislation prohibiting partial birth abortion, and a “health” exception was required even though medical testimony showed that such a procedure is never needed to save a woman’s health or life. .
But the legal environment has improved somewhat, and it is easier now to pass restrictions. The stronger the restriction, the more it will be challenged by pro-abortion groups. It’s a lot easier to have abortion restrictions passed in state legislatures, where they belong, (because the people generally support them) than it is to keep them from being struck down by federal courts.
I recommend Bernard Nathanson’s book “Aborting America,” for a review of all the lies that were instrumental to the creating of a right to abortion in the U.S.
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CMatt25
Guest
Beafedor, just so you don’t think I am ignoring you I will come back and try to answer your questions later when I have more time. Right now I am about ready to head out and going to chew on some dinner.
But are you in France? I have no idea what the laws are there. I think you might have a universal healthcare delivery system which I might prefer if the French model is anything like the European model we Americans describe the European and Canadians models to be. But when it comes to abortion law in France I have no idea. I don’t speak a lick of French I am sorry to say. So bear with me. And it is dificult for me not to separate a democracy’s laws of political making from faith. I know that is a difficult thing for some to digest though. God bless you and peace.
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CMatt25
Guest
While I have my doubts a majority of Americans would vote the extreme position of the Church with no exception, yes Jim even I voted for a restriction when given the opportunity. And if partial birth has no medical reason, then we don’t have to worry about any medical drs recommending it. If one does then he or she must have medical reason. I don’t have a medical degee myself to say. But see these restrictions are what I am talking about when I suggest after nearly 40 yrs it is time to find common ground and compromise. Perhaps it means keeping abortion safe and legal but rare. So then we can move on to other life issues. That is just what I and others believe. God bless you.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
I agree with you. And yeah, haiku because
of the way you structure your posts
like that of a poem, short or otherwise.
I like haiku also, as well as poetry in general. Especially prayerful poems, although my reading of them is really limited. I just enjoy the psalms during mass.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
You’re welcome.Thank you L&L. Yes I meant the collective “our”.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
That would be assuming that abortionists have virtuous motivations. I’m just thinking of Philadelphia right now. “Dr.” Kermit must have felt there was good reason to snip a 6 pound baby’s spine.
Why? Common ground I think is impossible, because we are talking of human rights of an unborn. The right to life must recognized for all of them, not some.
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Eric_Peter
Guest
By the time a woman found out that she’s pregnant, implantation have occurred.
**Week 1 of pregnancy **- starts on the last day of the previous menstrual cycle. There is no actual baby at this week. No ovum was released.
**Week 2 of pregnancy **- Ovum is usually released on the last day of week 2, or the first day of week 3 (plus or minus).
-Lifespan of an ovum is only about 24 hours, so conception usually happens less then a day after ovulation.
-Scientist and doctors have confirmed that life begin at conception, no matter what public opinions is. Without life, cell cannot divide and grow. And they agreed that zygote (single cell), blastocyst (70-100 cells) consist of human life.
-Zygote fulfills the four criteria of biological life. the criteria is
First day of conception - Zygote. Contain complete human DNA that will determine it’s characteristic (gender, race, eye color, hair color, height, etc) in the future. The DNA cannot be changed or edited. Cell starts to divide immediately after conception.
Zygote develops from 1 celled stage to 2-celled stage, and slowly divide to 4-celled staged, 8-celled stage and go on. they subdivide every 12-20 hours. Identical twins usually occurs at this stage (between 2 celled stage to 16 celled stage time)
3-5 days after conception, zygote has now become morula. Morula consist of at least 32 cells. It continues to develop to blastocyst.
Blastocyst consist of outer cells which forms a hollow ball (like a hollow egg shell) which will become placenta and other supporting tissues, and other and a centered cells group which will become fetus (a human being)
by the last day of week 2 pregnancy or the frist day of week 3 pregnancy, implantation occurred. This is when the medical pregnancy begins.
**Week 3 pregnancy **- after implantation, women had no idea that they are pregnant at this stage yet. Even the very sensitive pregnancy test kit cannot detect pregnancy at this stage.
around 2 or 3 days of week 3 pregnancy, primitive placental blood circulation has begun. The embryo now its very own distinctive blood type from the mother.
The embryo’s form at this stage looks like a DVD disc.
Brain starts to develop during this week.
**Week 4 pregnancy **- usually pregnancy can be detected by pregnancy test kit at the first day of week 4. However, false negative are also common and some women take longer days for their pregnancy to be detected.
the embryo now has 3 layers.
inner layer consists of cells that will develop into lungs, liver, and digestive system.
middle layer consists of cells that will develop into bones, muscles, kidneys, sex organs and heart.
outer layers consist of cells that will develop into skin, hair, eyes, and nervous system.
Week 5 pregnancy - 3 weeks after fertilization. baby looks like this.
http://www.deathroe.com/baby_development/images/week1_3.jpg
It has heart beat (since the first day of this week) and is pumping a different blood type from the mother, has a primitive intestine, and a neural tube, and a brain. it has arms and leg, and individual fingers, and even fingerprints.
Week 6 pregnancy - it has eyes.
I think I better stop here. it’s going to be a looooooooooong post.
As to whether zygote or embryo is human being, humans are funny creatures.
When they are expecting babies, the mother and father will call the zygote or embryo " the baby", “my baby”, etc even knowingly it’s only few cells. When they do not want the baby, or encouraging “right to choose abortion” they start to list down a long list as to why a zygote or embryo or even fetus cannot be a human being. By this logic, one can say “My baby wasn’t a human being”.
Pro-choice, you decide. P/S: sorry for my poor English command.
**Week 1 of pregnancy **- starts on the last day of the previous menstrual cycle. There is no actual baby at this week. No ovum was released.
**Week 2 of pregnancy **- Ovum is usually released on the last day of week 2, or the first day of week 3 (plus or minus).
-Lifespan of an ovum is only about 24 hours, so conception usually happens less then a day after ovulation.
-Scientist and doctors have confirmed that life begin at conception, no matter what public opinions is. Without life, cell cannot divide and grow. And they agreed that zygote (single cell), blastocyst (70-100 cells) consist of human life.
-Zygote fulfills the four criteria of biological life. the criteria is
- metabolism,
- growth,
- reaction to stimuli, and
- reproduction.
First day of conception - Zygote. Contain complete human DNA that will determine it’s characteristic (gender, race, eye color, hair color, height, etc) in the future. The DNA cannot be changed or edited. Cell starts to divide immediately after conception.
Zygote develops from 1 celled stage to 2-celled stage, and slowly divide to 4-celled staged, 8-celled stage and go on. they subdivide every 12-20 hours. Identical twins usually occurs at this stage (between 2 celled stage to 16 celled stage time)
3-5 days after conception, zygote has now become morula. Morula consist of at least 32 cells. It continues to develop to blastocyst.
Blastocyst consist of outer cells which forms a hollow ball (like a hollow egg shell) which will become placenta and other supporting tissues, and other and a centered cells group which will become fetus (a human being)
by the last day of week 2 pregnancy or the frist day of week 3 pregnancy, implantation occurred. This is when the medical pregnancy begins.
**Week 3 pregnancy **- after implantation, women had no idea that they are pregnant at this stage yet. Even the very sensitive pregnancy test kit cannot detect pregnancy at this stage.
around 2 or 3 days of week 3 pregnancy, primitive placental blood circulation has begun. The embryo now its very own distinctive blood type from the mother.
The embryo’s form at this stage looks like a DVD disc.
Brain starts to develop during this week.
**Week 4 pregnancy **- usually pregnancy can be detected by pregnancy test kit at the first day of week 4. However, false negative are also common and some women take longer days for their pregnancy to be detected.
the embryo now has 3 layers.
inner layer consists of cells that will develop into lungs, liver, and digestive system.
middle layer consists of cells that will develop into bones, muscles, kidneys, sex organs and heart.
outer layers consist of cells that will develop into skin, hair, eyes, and nervous system.
Week 5 pregnancy - 3 weeks after fertilization. baby looks like this.
http://www.deathroe.com/baby_development/images/week1_3.jpg
It has heart beat (since the first day of this week) and is pumping a different blood type from the mother, has a primitive intestine, and a neural tube, and a brain. it has arms and leg, and individual fingers, and even fingerprints.
Week 6 pregnancy - it has eyes.
I think I better stop here. it’s going to be a looooooooooong post.
As to whether zygote or embryo is human being, humans are funny creatures.
When they are expecting babies, the mother and father will call the zygote or embryo " the baby", “my baby”, etc even knowingly it’s only few cells. When they do not want the baby, or encouraging “right to choose abortion” they start to list down a long list as to why a zygote or embryo or even fetus cannot be a human being. By this logic, one can say “My baby wasn’t a human being”.
Pro-choice, you decide. P/S: sorry for my poor English command.
M
Mijoy2
Guest
Isn’t there one argument for “pro-choice”? I think there may be.
The argument being, if there is a law, one has the legal right to choose something within the constraints (or lack of constraints) that law.
With this in mind, if shooting your neighbor for violating the 10 o’clock curfew of no loud noise in an apartment complex was the law, then I’d be pro-choice in stating that if someone were to exercise thier legal right under this law, I believe they should not go to jail. They did not violate the law.
If that is a definition of pro-choice, I am pro-choice. Pro-choice is not the issue. The issue is that abortion is killing of the innocent. Opponents (those who call themselves pro-choice) have a point. I don’t understand why we refer to abortion advocates as pro-choice. Why do we not call them what they are; “advocates of murdering the innocent”. Maybe we could shorted it, “pro-infanticide”. Then when the discussions begin, we will not be talking about the “woman’s right to choose”, the label will force the discussion centered on, “the persons right to kil an innoccent childl”.
Pro-choice is a whimpy term. Time we did away with it.
The argument being, if there is a law, one has the legal right to choose something within the constraints (or lack of constraints) that law.
With this in mind, if shooting your neighbor for violating the 10 o’clock curfew of no loud noise in an apartment complex was the law, then I’d be pro-choice in stating that if someone were to exercise thier legal right under this law, I believe they should not go to jail. They did not violate the law.
If that is a definition of pro-choice, I am pro-choice. Pro-choice is not the issue. The issue is that abortion is killing of the innocent. Opponents (those who call themselves pro-choice) have a point. I don’t understand why we refer to abortion advocates as pro-choice. Why do we not call them what they are; “advocates of murdering the innocent”. Maybe we could shorted it, “pro-infanticide”. Then when the discussions begin, we will not be talking about the “woman’s right to choose”, the label will force the discussion centered on, “the persons right to kil an innoccent childl”.
Pro-choice is a whimpy term. Time we did away with it.
L
LCMS_No_More
Guest
Brown vs. Whitman?
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century153
Guest
Maybe the pro-lifers need to make a stronger argument for it. I saw on EWTN a man interviewed who has an organization that is making pro-life advertisements. I just cannot remember the website address or his name. Maybe someone here can enlighten me. Anyway, what we need to do is put it out there in people’s faces until they get it in their head what it is all about. Constantly over and over again – like a Coke commercial. They need funding and I think the Catholic Church should help them out. We can turn it around – but first we have to believe it.
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estesbob
Guest
Both were equally pro-abortion so a Catholic could have voted for either.
I
Iowa_Mike
Guest
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Iowa_Mike
Guest
Compromise??? Surely you jest. You mean that based upon the circumstances it is OK to abortion a living child… How does one compromise on murder?
By the by how can partial birth abortion possible have a medical implication? I mean the baby is prevented from fully exiting the womb and then it’s murdered. Three is no justification for partial birth aboriton…none…ever.
God Bless,
Iowa Mike
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
Happy with Obama?
And for goodness sake, it’s not all about the economy! I’m so tired of hearing how people are only concerned with saving the economy. Save the economy, kill your children. How many politicians have said, “The most important issue is job creation…”?
THAT’S getting your priorities mixed up. God help us!
I believe the Catholic message is more of this idea: Vote LIFE “so that you and your descendants may live.”
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