Pro-choice Catholics

[Iowa_Mike]

No, Mike. You are missing the point. Earlier you got wroth with another poster over this same thing!

Thinking like the inquisition does not make you a persecutor of Joan of Arc.

This is a strawman, Mike. No one here has claimed that the term “heretic” cannot be used by Catholics. What we have said is that individual Catholics are not to use the term with our brethren.

You are right, if you cannot accept the Teaching of the Apostles and of our Lord clearly in the Scriptures on this matter, it doesn’;t much matter. If they cannot influence your attitude, I am sure that I cannot.

Yes.

One of my points of study are the forum rules, where I find this:

“Making any negative statements about our bishops, deacons, priests, sisters or religious brothers is not allowed. Speaking to anyone of them in an inappropriate tone while on the forum is not allowed.”

I think labeling a priest as a heretic is dangerously close, and clearly your tone is quite disparaging of the man. If you cannot be corrected by the words of Sacred Scripture,then perhaps your continued posting privileges are important enough to you that you will take the forum rules into consideration?

If you have a complaint take it to one of the moderators. I will continue this via PM as I’ve asked you repeatedly not to divert the thread. Perhaps you should look up the rules on these.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[CMatt25]

Matt, I think you will find, eventually, that no amount of promoting your agenda of moral relativism on CAF is going to further your cause. Faithful Catholics cannot embrace moral relativism, or the “pro-choice” stance. As Catharina has staded - these “causes” have already been settled for us.

Guan, I am not promoting an agenda or trying to further any cause for faithful Catholics to embrace. I am discussing various beliefs for anyone who may want to learn about others. CAF existed I thought for faithful Catholics to defend their Church teachings but also in part to discuss various beliefs which people hold. And in the case of this thread about pro choice Catholics, I only thought perhaps I could contribute in regard to pro choice beliefs.

 

[guanophore]

If you go back to my earlier premise regarding proof vs faith and all those things you must first place faith in, it is by faith you believe the Catholic Church reveals the truth.

I deny no such thing. I just deny that we can say we know with absolutely certainty other than by faith and belief.

What it seems to mean is that you don’t really believe that God’s revelation exists outside of human faith and belief.

God has revealed Truth to mankind. There are many avenues through which we access the Truth, including faith, but also reason, and what we observe in nature itself.

We CAN know Truth that God has revealed.

 

[catharina]

distraction, diversion, destruction …
a thread destroyed by a couple of drum-beaters …

God have mercy on us.

 

[CMatt25]

Well, for one thing you must excuse posters who assume you are, because you’ve, well, said you were.

PR. I have no idea why you continue to post old posts of mine. You did the same on another thread. The past does not matter. It is the present in which we live. People change religious affiliations. There are Catholics who later even actually join other churches or ecclesial communities (whichever you prefer to call them). If someone once identified Catholic and then was received into TEC for instance, are you going to keep saying, oh but they used to identify as a Catholic?

 

[Iowa_Mike]

No, Mike. You are missing the point. Earlier you got wroth with another poster over this same thing!

Thinking like the inquisition does not make you a persecutor of Joan of Arc.

This is a strawman, Mike. No one here has claimed that the term “heretic” cannot be used by Catholics. What we have said is that individual Catholics are not to use the term with our brethren.

You are right, if you cannot accept the Teaching of the Apostles and of our Lord clearly in the Scriptures on this matter, it doesn’;t much matter. If they cannot influence your attitude, I am sure that I cannot.

Yes.

One of my points of study are the forum rules, where I find this:

“Making any negative statements about our bishops, deacons, priests, sisters or religious brothers is not allowed. Speaking to anyone of them in an inappropriate tone while on the forum is not allowed.”

I think labeling a priest as a heretic is dangerously close, and clearly your tone is quite disparaging of the man. If you cannot be corrected by the words of Sacred Scripture,then perhaps your continued posting privileges are important enough to you that you will take the forum rules into consideration?

Off subject, see my PM.

Iowa Mike

 

[PRmerger]

PR. I have no idea why you continue to post old posts of mine.

Only because you keep sounding so puzzled why people think you’re Catholic.

I just wanted to provide an explanation as to why people might do so.

No other reason.

Incidentally, why would you object to posting old posts?

You are certainly free to find any of my posts and post them here.

 

[CMatt25]

may i know, what are the rights to privacy?
privacy of what?

Privacy in personal reproductive decisions without government interfering in such decisions.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

So I haven’t read all 31 pages of this thread, but has anyone run across this site: catholicsforchoice.org/
I was tempted to send them an email, but i’m tired right now and don’t want to say anything that I will regret when I wake up. I’m shocked by their agenda and values. It’s clear that they are good people who are seeking Christ, but are they for real? This pdf talks about how they justify their views: catholicsforchoice.org/documents/TruthaboutCatholicsandAbortion.pdf

later on they say: “Catholics can, in good conscience, support access to
abortion and affirm that abortion can be a moral choice.
Indeed, many of us do.”…interesting :ehh:

 

[PRmerger]

People change religious affiliations.

Fair enough.

There are Catholics who later even actually join other churches or ecclesial communities (whichever you prefer to call them). If someone once identified Catholic and then was received into TEC for instance, are you going to keep saying, oh but they used to identify as a Catholic?

Not at all, Matt.

But if this ex-Catholic were to continue to be puzzled as to why posters identified him with the Catholic faith, it would make one wonder.

It would seem prudent for the ex-Catholic to say, “Oh, yes, I can see why you would say that, as I did post here quite recently identifying myself as a Catholic, but I have, in the interest of “truth in advertising” changed my religious affiliation to a TEC” (whatever that is).

 

[guanophore]

Hmmmmm. You applaud me on the one hand Guan for no longer identifying myself as a Catholic.

Indeed I do! :clapping:

And now you say if it depends on who I ask or where I am,

No, I was reacting to YOU saying that:

Who is Catholic, Bob, could depend on who one asks or where one is.

\

then the ones who don’t want me to consider myself a Catholic are practicing moral relativism and denying the truth?

What I meant to say is that a person who practices moral relativism denies the Truth, and does not hold Catholic faith.

I am sorry, I did not mean to be confusing.

My apologies. Ability to express myself may be disappearing along with the memory functions?

 

[Iowa_Mike]

So I haven’t read all 31 pages of this thread, but has anyone run across this site: catholicsforchoice.org/
I was tempted to send them an email, but i’m tired right now and don’t want to say anything that I will regret when I wake up. I’m shocked by their agenda and values. It’s clear that they are good people who are seeking Christ, but are they for real? This pdf talks about how they justify their views: catholicsforchoice.org/documents/TruthaboutCatholicsandAbortion.pdf

Your initial impression of this group is right on. They are a dissident bunch…they are so far outside Church teaching it’s hard to describe. There’s a bunch of other dissident groups that are similar but each one seems to have a particular heresy they favor. You can send them a mail but they won’t react to it unless you are a supporter.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[CMatt25]

Sounds very good, but I noticed that you didn’t provide a source / link for any of your statements.

As for PP – I am a Clinic escort at a local PP, where we help women get in for their prenatal services. I haven’t been called in over a year cause things have settled down. But the last time a pro-Life group picketed the place, a group of us showed up and waited inside the door for anyone who was afraid to walk to their car. What’s funny is that, abortions are not done at this location.And yes I know that for a fact.

It sounds to me when you are an escort you are protecting women who fear harm or some sort of retaliation from the pro life groups.

 

[catharina]

So I haven’t read all 31 pages of this thread, but has anyone run across this site: catholicsforchoice.org/
I was tempted to send them an email, but i’m tired right now and don’t want to say anything that I will regret when I wake up. I’m shocked by their agenda and values. It’s clear that they are good people who are seeking Christ, but are they for real?

There are a number of groups that purport to be Catholic and pro-choice. Among the earliest founded was “Catholics for a free choice,” begun in Illinois by Frances Kissling. The group was never an actual “group” though. It was a lobbying - send me money - postal drop. It attracted lots of attention though because it was so objectionable. Many groups followed in that path. Some were actual groups. Others were like Kisslings’ “group.” Kissling turned over the “group” to Jon O’Brien.

She remains opposed to the Church. She was raised Catholic in New York.
Yes, the Kissling thing became catholicsfor choice.

 

[guanophore]

Your initial impression of this group is right on. They are a dissident bunch…they are so far outside Church teaching it’s hard to describe. There’s a bunch of other dissident groups that are similar but each one seems to have a particular heresy they favor. You can send them a mail but they won’t react to it unless you are a supporter.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

on an appropriate use of the term “heresy”.

 

[CMatt25]

Hello CMatt. Thank you for your kind words - all is well. But, you are completely dodging my question aren’t you? You say we can’t impose our religious values such as anti-abortion rights on the rest of society - that’s a “theocracy” but then you turn around and say “Jesus said help the poor in the bible so I want govt welfare programs for the poor”. You can’t have it both ways. I truly wish you’d answer the question, or atleast explain how you’re not contradicting yourself.

Ishii

Ishii, reread my post for my explanation. In it I spoke of non religious reasons as well. I would support an active govt role in helping the poor and sick even if I were a non believer.

 

[CMatt25]

Sorry CMatt. Early senility.

NP I understand.

 

[CMatt25]

CMatt,

God gave us all free will. You have every right to decide to accept the Catholic faith or not to accept it. It does not depend on who you talk to. The Catholic Church’s teachings are immutable, they do no change, they are not subject to pop culture… A person either accepts the Church’s teachings or they don’t. If you are confused I suggest you see a priest and discuss this with him.

God Bless,

Iowa MIke

I already took it up with a bishop. He said I was a Catholic.

 

[CMatt25]

Only because you keep sounding so puzzled why people think you’re Catholic.

I just wanted to provide an explanation as to why people might do so.

No other reason.

Incidentally, why would you object to posting old posts?

You are certainly free to find any of my posts and post them here.

PR, I am puzzled because if people look they will see I no longer identify as such. Yet you keep bringing up a former identification. I’m even puzzled as to all this discussion about me. I thought we weren’t supposed to discuss other members.

 

[guanophore]

I already took it up with a bishop. He said I was a Catholic.

Ok, we know, but just don’t spread it around here, ok?