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M
MIZER
Guest
Marietta,
Who said this?
No one said this.
You make it up as you go.
C
Calliso
Guest
I donlt think anyone said that exactly but I could have sworn that someone did say something about how we can;t shelter our children or what not. There is too many posts though haha!
C
Calliso
Guest
As for graphic pictures, personally I think it is ok to hand them out in pamplets or have them on websites. Personally though I think it is going way to far to have them on billboards and what not. Little kids donlt need to be exposed to that sort of stuff…same as they donlt need to see pictures of bullet ridden bodies and what not.
How effective they are is debatable though. It depends I think alot on how emotional a woman is and how much see already knows about prenatal development and abortion. For instance lets say the picture is of abortions around 9weeks I think that is the time many/most abortions occur. Well yes it is very graphic and even at that early stage will look vaguely human. However for a woman/man that knows about prenatal development will also know that a fetus at that age isn;t concious or does it have any ablity to feel pain. However someone that does not know this may be swayed. Now if these are pictures of later term abortions there is another problem. Mainly the fact that most abortions donlt occur in the later terms of the pregnancy. And those that do mostly occur for reasons such as serious health risk to the mother. I should also add this little rant ahha, it bugs me alot when prolifers use pictures of 6 month old aborted fetus’s acting like that is the majority of abortions and all…but are very quick to point out how rare things like serious risk to life and rape are when prochoicers use those arguements.
But really I think as for graphic pictures use them if you really want but I think there is better ways to convince someone to not have an abortion then relying on gross pictures.
How effective they are is debatable though. It depends I think alot on how emotional a woman is and how much see already knows about prenatal development and abortion. For instance lets say the picture is of abortions around 9weeks I think that is the time many/most abortions occur. Well yes it is very graphic and even at that early stage will look vaguely human. However for a woman/man that knows about prenatal development will also know that a fetus at that age isn;t concious or does it have any ablity to feel pain. However someone that does not know this may be swayed. Now if these are pictures of later term abortions there is another problem. Mainly the fact that most abortions donlt occur in the later terms of the pregnancy. And those that do mostly occur for reasons such as serious health risk to the mother. I should also add this little rant ahha, it bugs me alot when prolifers use pictures of 6 month old aborted fetus’s acting like that is the majority of abortions and all…but are very quick to point out how rare things like serious risk to life and rape are when prochoicers use those arguements.
But really I think as for graphic pictures use them if you really want but I think there is better ways to convince someone to not have an abortion then relying on gross pictures.
M
marietta
Guest
vern humphrey tells us:
" . . . science confirms that the human is formed at the moment of conception."
Catholics may choose to believe this, millions of people of other denominations may choose to believe this. Science has not confirmed it. Pro-life scientists may support the premise and pro-choice scientists may deny it. But as far as empirical proof, there is none. The truth of the matter lies in the mind of the zealot and in the mind of the pregnant woman.
marietta
" . . . science confirms that the human is formed at the moment of conception."
Catholics may choose to believe this, millions of people of other denominations may choose to believe this. Science has not confirmed it. Pro-life scientists may support the premise and pro-choice scientists may deny it. But as far as empirical proof, there is none. The truth of the matter lies in the mind of the zealot and in the mind of the pregnant woman.
marietta
M
mapleoak
Guest
R
rlg94086
Guest
Hi Marietta,
A human zygote is human. It is not an egg…it is not sperm, it’s dna is human and unique (not the same DNA as the mother). Are you saying that a zygote is another species or being?
BTW…I don’t know if you realize it, but an eagle’s egg has more protection than an unborn human.
ewtn.com/library/PROLENC/ENCYC070.HTM
M
mapleoak
Guest
M
mapleoak
Guest
But graphic photos are not a moral wrong. The procedure depicted by them is.
Of course, when it is convenient to help advance your argument.
M
mapleoak
Guest
And you can tell yourself all you want that the moon is made of cheese.
M
MIZER
Guest
vz71 writes:
Very good. I appreciate your careful consideration. As well as the reasonablness of your statement. A little reason goes a long way and the key word here is “appropriate.” Thank you.
M
mapleoak
Guest
Sure had us fooled.
Those who are unaware of the reality of what abortion is.
I am sure if you have been reading this whole thread as you claim, you would know the answer to that.
All of those who are unaware of the reality of what abortion is. This includes many different age groups of the general population.
Indeed this age group would include many people who are uneducated about the reality of what abortion is.
It is rediculous to claim that preschoolers are being targeted. If that were the case, the pictures would be displayed in preschool. That would seem the most effective way to get the message across to preschoolers. But that is not the case.
And so it lies with you as a parent to decide how you will instruct your preschooler and you control whether or not he is prepared to encounter the world by himself.
Somewheres about the very beginning of this thread the argument was brought up that pro-life folks don’t care about children once they are born. Suggest going back there and reading a little bit of it. Interesting.
Same here. It would be more beneficial to bring up some more original ideas that haven’t already been discussed and the errors of those ways of thinking refuted.
That is totally your choice what you are going to instruct your child in.
Of this claim didn’t come from any of the pro-lifers I know on this board.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes among others.
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
Are you saying the child’s human DNA develops some time **after **conception?
You got some documentation for that theory?
M
mapleoak
Guest
I was actually quite surprised to hear Marietta say something like that.
M
mapleoak
Guest
Yes Mizer, it seems that the word “appropriate” which was first mentioned sometime around when the topic of graphic images was raised, became totally ignored by those who are diametrically opposed to all use of such photos.
Thanks as well vz71.
M
marietta
Guest
mapleoak:
My telling myself all I want that the moon is made of cheese is not judgmental.
Your telling anyone, male or female, that your religion, your faith, your beliefs are legitimate and theirs are not, and that God prefers your philosophy over any other, is spiritual arrogance.
Here: fill in the blank with your pompous rejoinder. If you need more space, first ask God what His will for you is at that moment.
My telling myself all I want that the moon is made of cheese is not judgmental.
Your telling anyone, male or female, that your religion, your faith, your beliefs are legitimate and theirs are not, and that God prefers your philosophy over any other, is spiritual arrogance.
Here: fill in the blank with your pompous rejoinder. If you need more space, first ask God what His will for you is at that moment.
M
MIZER
Guest
Hi Marietta,
You have some questions I see:
Here’s the long anwer:
You yourself won’t admit what abortion is or does. You say you are Pro (for) CHOICE, without properly defining what that choice is, what it does and what it means for us all, as a people.
The word abortion, in the minds of far too many people, means “a choice.” Abortion is a non-issue. Who isn’t for choice? We all love our freedom. Freedom is about choices. But abortion should never be a choice. Abortion is an act of violence that kills a child. But you won’t, or you can’t see it as such because you are steeped in the propaganda of CHOICE.
Abortion is an evil so great, so horrific, so grave, that mere words fail us. Most people who call themselves “pro-choice” deny that the choice is to kill a human being. Many people who call themselves “pro-choice” deny that a human being is killed. “It’s a fetus.” Right? Somehow the word “fetus” or embryo negates the fact that it is a human fetus, a human embryo. You use “products of conception” to describe the baby parts. Why do you do that? You do that because to say baby parts, tiny arms and legs, a little head with facial features, tiny ears, fingers and toes, a beating human heart, is too gruesome for you to fathom and still maintain your stand that abortion is merely one of two possible choices a woman might make. So you say “products of conception” and you don’t need to think about what that phrase means.
If an individual who calls him or herself “pro-choice” has a functioning conscience that person cannot look at the pictures featured on the GAP bill boards and not stop and think. Those pictures force one to think. So although we do not wish to force you to look at the pictures, we do wish to force you to think. How can we do that? By begging you to look at the pictures. By making the pictures available for you see. By making abortion unavoidable. For most of the 35 years abortion has been legal in this country it has been very easy to avoid. It is kept hidden, it is done in secret. If it’s such a viable choice why is that neccessary? If abortion is so horrible that we can’t stomach the thought of a youngster MIGHT happening across a picture of it, My God in Heaven, why, are we tollerating it???
And, it is not our constitutional right. The Supreme Court Justices of 1973 erroneously found a right to privacy in the constitution. Read the document for yourself. There is no such right mentioned. It’s the same as the protestants who erroneously find things in the Bible that are simply not there. Like the word alone, following the word faith. It is not there. But to suit there own agenda they find it there and they make shipwreck of the true faith. The Supreme Court Justices found a right (privacy) that is not in the constitution and they have made shipwreck of our right to life, which is there.
They left intact our right to free speech, however, and our right to free assembly. So as long as we have that, we can’t be stopped from showing the truth about abortion.
You think you have the right to kill a baby. Well guess what, I have a right to show you and the rest of this blessed country of ours, a picture of what you did. And I thank God every day, that you can’t stop me.
You have some questions I see:
Because the propaganda surrounding the issue of abortion has so dulled the senses of most people that the word has lost it’s meaning. That’s the short answer.
Here’s the long anwer:
You yourself won’t admit what abortion is or does. You say you are Pro (for) CHOICE, without properly defining what that choice is, what it does and what it means for us all, as a people.
The word abortion, in the minds of far too many people, means “a choice.” Abortion is a non-issue. Who isn’t for choice? We all love our freedom. Freedom is about choices. But abortion should never be a choice. Abortion is an act of violence that kills a child. But you won’t, or you can’t see it as such because you are steeped in the propaganda of CHOICE.
Abortion is an evil so great, so horrific, so grave, that mere words fail us. Most people who call themselves “pro-choice” deny that the choice is to kill a human being. Many people who call themselves “pro-choice” deny that a human being is killed. “It’s a fetus.” Right? Somehow the word “fetus” or embryo negates the fact that it is a human fetus, a human embryo. You use “products of conception” to describe the baby parts. Why do you do that? You do that because to say baby parts, tiny arms and legs, a little head with facial features, tiny ears, fingers and toes, a beating human heart, is too gruesome for you to fathom and still maintain your stand that abortion is merely one of two possible choices a woman might make. So you say “products of conception” and you don’t need to think about what that phrase means.
If an individual who calls him or herself “pro-choice” has a functioning conscience that person cannot look at the pictures featured on the GAP bill boards and not stop and think. Those pictures force one to think. So although we do not wish to force you to look at the pictures, we do wish to force you to think. How can we do that? By begging you to look at the pictures. By making the pictures available for you see. By making abortion unavoidable. For most of the 35 years abortion has been legal in this country it has been very easy to avoid. It is kept hidden, it is done in secret. If it’s such a viable choice why is that neccessary? If abortion is so horrible that we can’t stomach the thought of a youngster MIGHT happening across a picture of it, My God in Heaven, why, are we tollerating it???
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That is correct. We have choices. But one of those choices should not include the killing of another human being. That is not our moral choice to make. Not ever. Not in any circumstance. Abortion is the killing of another. It should not be our choice.
And, it is not our constitutional right. The Supreme Court Justices of 1973 erroneously found a right to privacy in the constitution. Read the document for yourself. There is no such right mentioned. It’s the same as the protestants who erroneously find things in the Bible that are simply not there. Like the word alone, following the word faith. It is not there. But to suit there own agenda they find it there and they make shipwreck of the true faith. The Supreme Court Justices found a right (privacy) that is not in the constitution and they have made shipwreck of our right to life, which is there.
They left intact our right to free speech, however, and our right to free assembly. So as long as we have that, we can’t be stopped from showing the truth about abortion.
You think you have the right to kill a baby. Well guess what, I have a right to show you and the rest of this blessed country of ours, a picture of what you did. And I thank God every day, that you can’t stop me.
M
mapleoak
Guest
You made the claim that in spite of scientific consensus on the fact that a unique human being is present at conception, you choose to deny it. Scientific facts are not based on the biases of individual scientists who may be pro-choice.
No, I am pointing that a unique individual human being is present from the moment of conception. Like I said, you can choose to believe that the moon is made of cheese in spite of it being a scientific fact that it is otherwise.
Sorry the blank was to small.
R
Robert_Bay
Guest
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Thread exceeds 1,000 posts
Participants are strongly reminded that charity is essential to our discussions here. Posters should not attack each other. If you feel you have been attacked, rather than lashing back at the member who attacked you, report the post using the red triangle in the upper right corner of the post or send the member a POLITE and charitable PM clarifying the situation.
If you wish to review the subject, please see Charity for specifics, or CAF rules for an overview, both of which are located in the Rules of the Road sub-forum.
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