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gearhead
Guest
If you really believe that people think this, then I wonder whether you’ve thought things through yourself.
- Status
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dulcissima
Guest
After having her second child, my sister, who is a non-catholic, went on birth control pills. I let her know that birth control pills are an abortifacient, that she could be terminating an early pregnancy if she took them. She had used NFP to achieve her second pregnancy and I recommended it to her as a way of avoiding future ones.
Her reply to me about the possibility of terminating an early pregnancy was that it really wouldn’t bother her, she wouldn’t consider it to be losing a baby, since she wasn’t trying to have one.
People REALLY do think this way, and based on the OP’s statements about her friend, she is one who holds this view as well. I think Brenda V’s comment was valid.
I think if I was in the OP’s position, I would tell her that I was having a difficult time with her conflicting views on pre-born babies. Lately, I tend to be more direct than most though.
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shannyk
Guest
Absolutely people think this way gearhard.
My sister had an abortion and then years later was pregnant again and planned on having the baby. I asked why this was a ‘baby’ and her last one was a ‘pregnancy’. She responded “becasue I want this one!”
Oh, well that’s objective isn’t it
What people convince themselves of to suit their desires and justify their actions is pretty astounding.
ETA: I meant to answer the OP too…while I understand your discomfort with the situation, I think it’s a really nice gesture that your friend wants to throw you a shower. She obviously on some level knows that having a bay is a cause for celebration and for supporting a mom, and those things are very much parts of a pro-life position, she just doesn’t have all the apples in the basket so to speak . I would encourage you to gracefully accept this gesture in earnest and be an example to your friend and pray for her.
My sister had an abortion and then years later was pregnant again and planned on having the baby. I asked why this was a ‘baby’ and her last one was a ‘pregnancy’. She responded “becasue I want this one!”
Oh, well that’s objective isn’t it
What people convince themselves of to suit their desires and justify their actions is pretty astounding.
ETA: I meant to answer the OP too…while I understand your discomfort with the situation, I think it’s a really nice gesture that your friend wants to throw you a shower. She obviously on some level knows that having a bay is a cause for celebration and for supporting a mom, and those things are very much parts of a pro-life position, she just doesn’t have all the apples in the basket so to speak . I would encourage you to gracefully accept this gesture in earnest and be an example to your friend and pray for her.
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Sina
Guest
If it were me, I would be happy to have a friend throwing a celebration for a baby shower. Just because she isn’t pro life, doesn’t mean she isn’t happy for you for having a baby. Not all pro lifers and pro choicers think exactly the same on each side.
Maybe she will have her heart softened.
Now, you aren’t me… you sound like pro-life issues are at the forefront of your life ( more of us should be this way ). Your friend sounds like pro-choice is at the forefront of her life. So you obviously irk each other.
As long as you can put your differences aside, then you should be able to enjoy her company.
I totally agree with you that pro-choicers have a lot of inconsistencies with their beliefs. But they really don’t see it that way.
Maybe she will have her heart softened.
Now, you aren’t me… you sound like pro-life issues are at the forefront of your life ( more of us should be this way ). Your friend sounds like pro-choice is at the forefront of her life. So you obviously irk each other.
As long as you can put your differences aside, then you should be able to enjoy her company.
I totally agree with you that pro-choicers have a lot of inconsistencies with their beliefs. But they really don’t see it that way.
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Sina
Guest
SadAbsolutely people think this way gearhard.
My sister had an abortion and then years later was pregnant again and planned on having the baby. I asked why this was a ‘baby’ and her last one was a ‘pregnancy’. She responded “becasue I want this one!”
Oh, well that’s objective isn’t it
What people convince themselves of to suit their desires and justify their actions is pretty astounding.
I have a friend like that too. Had an abortion with her first child while she was engaged because they weren’t quite ready yet ( hello… why are you getting married then? ) and with the second child, the friend was so excited when she saw her baby in an ultrasound at 8 weeks as she was the size of a toonie ($2 Cdn). 
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JRKH
Guest
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Brenda_V
Guest
Gearhead did you really read what I wrote? Because I said that I have talked with these people, they have pretty much told me that a “wanted baby” is different from and “unwanted baby”, so what is the difference between the one and the other? They are both babies and both humans, both in a specific stage of human development.
BTW, many of these people will also tell me that adoption is not an option, “I don’t want someone else raising my baby, so I would rather get an abortion because it is just a blob of tissue anyway.” Gee, same sentence and the person is calling what is growing inside the womb a baby and then a blob of tissue.
Added: thanks everyone for sharing your own experiences with this.
Brenda V.
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SamH
Guest
If you don’t think people think like this you don’t get out much.
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aggiecatholic85
Guest
She is very happy for me. It is irksome, especially since she is a regular volunteer at Planned Parenthood. There seem to be a lot of great opinions going on here. It still bothers me greatly…I almost want to ask the co-shower hostess to host at her house, but I know that will throw up a lot of red flags and be dragging the co-hostess into a situation where she doesn’t need to be…(and maybe can’t host at her house after all…)
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mlchance
Guest
All good people are hypocrites. Let her throw you a baby shower.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Belle10
Guest
I haven’t read the entire thread, but I understand your hesitation about the shower. I think you need to explain it to your friend (if you haven’t already). Just tell her in a kind way that you’re confused and feeling a bit strange about why how she can care about your baby and be OK with helping other women kill their babies. Maybe if you just go to her in a non-confrontational way and tell her how you’re feeling it will be an opportunity to talk more about this and you never know where that could lead.
Offering a prayer for you and your friend. It sure is a tough position to be in (I have friends similar to yours and it’s so tough).
PS - Congrats on your little one!
(Have you been in the pregnant moms thread? Sorry I can’t remember! If you haven’t, join us!)
Maybe if you just go to her in a non-confrontational way and tell her how you’re feeling it will be an opportunity to talk more about this and you never know where that could lead.Offering a prayer for you and your friend. It sure is a tough position to be in (I have friends similar to yours and it’s so tough).
PS - Congrats on your little one!
(Have you been in the pregnant moms thread? Sorry I can’t remember! If you haven’t, join us!)
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Brenda_V
Guest
Mark, I think this is the best post yet! I will have to remember it.
OP if it really is bothering you then you need to talk to her. Bring your most recent ultra sound picture if you have one or, better yet, one from when your baby was teeny, tiny, the size of a peanut! This might help her see the baby there and how what she is doing is indeed helping women kill their babies - if you don’t visit the News Forums, you need to, there is a thread there about a Director of a PP in Texas who has seen the light after seeing an ultra sound! I’ll see if I can find it and post a link here.
Brenda V.
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aggiecatholic85
Guest
She’s seen all the ultrasounds, even been to ones with friends (and still escorts to abortions)…
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Brenda_V
Guest
Ahh, she really doesn’t get it or considers a “wanted” baby more important and worth life than an “unwanted” baby!
I will keep her in my prayers. You are already in my prayers, the ones I say for expectant moms
.Anyway, here is the link to one of the threads on the topic I was talking about.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=393495
Brenda V.
I think most people in our modern society don’t see human life as having any intrinsic value. They mostly see life as having value because some other (rational) human values that life and/or gets something from it. So an unwanted baby or a person with dementia all alone in a nursing home would have no value and not really even qualify as a person.
Adding my prayers!I will keep her in my prayers. You are already in my prayers, the ones I say for expectant moms
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JRKH
Guest
I agree that you should not “throw up” any red flags on this.
What you do need to do is use this opportunity to witness.
Given what you have wrote, it seems your friend is like many people. basically good but badly misguided and confused by all the garbage tossed out by modern culture.
Every person who can be changed from pro-abortion to pro-life brings us one step closer to defeating abortion forever. You have been given a most powerful set of tools for witnessing to your friend.
Instead of pushing this person away, it seems you should draw her closer to you. Show her your sonograms. Let her listen to and feel the baby’s heartbeat and kick. Get pictures and/or photo’s of babies at your current stage of gestation. Show her these pictures and then -
Tell her that, if you so chose, you could walk into a Planned Parenthood, and this child whose heart she heard, and whose kick she felt, and whose picture she saw, could be killed; ripped from the womb and tossed unceremoniously into the “medical waste” bucket.
Someone posted here a day or so ago that the director of a planned parenthood in Texas resigned after she watched a sonogram of an abortion. She saw the fetus collapse as it was sucked out of the womb. Such clear images make a huge difference to many people. The German People were able to close their eyes and agnore what was going on in the camps during WW II. When they were confronted with the realities by the Allies, they were horrified and resolved to never let such a thing happen again.
I don’t say that you need to try to horrify your friend, but at the sme time you certainly can use the tools God has given you to try to impress upon your friend that this is a child - period. That any fetus in the womb, no matter how it got there, is just as much of a human as your child is.
Sorry to run on like this.
I hope things work out well and that the shower is a great success.
Peace
James
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aggiecatholic85
Guest
Thanks James. I actually have confronted her on that very issue: i.e. if I were to do that PP abortion. And she said yes, she would support that.
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Jea9
Guest
My opinion is that you should let her throw you the shower because it is her trying to be loving to her friend.
Also, my niece and I (she’s 29) have had several discussions on abortion. She is pro-choice. When I have kids she will probably be the first one in my family to offer to throw me a shower. In her opinion a baby isn’t a baby at all until the magical 13th week. Until then she has described the baby as crassly as “nothing different than a tumor taking nutrients from its host”.
But she is super loving to all kids and she has even given a baby up for adoption. She 100% believes that it is not a baby at conception. She takes the pill and even knows that it is an abortificiant, she just thinks it doesn’t matter yet. However, she does not believe in abortion after the 12th week at all, under any circumstances. I don’t know if your friend feels this way, but maybe she calls your baby a person NOW because you’re past that point. Maybe she has the whole time because for as long as she’s known you were pregnant you were past that magical point? 
I don’t know, I’m just suggesting that maybe, in her mind, she isn’t being hypocritical…- Status