Pro-choice saints?

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Janet_S

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Does anyone know of a pro-choice, canonized saint or blessed? Someone with the opinion “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but if someone else wants to get one, I won’t force my beliefs on them. . . . .”

If you know of one, please give quotes and links to quotes if available.

Also, if you just want to give quotes about what your favorite saint has to say about abortion–for or against–add that to the thread as well.
 
There is no saint who is pro-murder of infants. It is against the unique child of God in the womb, an irreplaceable person with an immortal soul destined to live for all eternity.
It’s against the Commandments of God, "Thou shalt not kill.’
No one who supports abortion without repenting is ever likely to be canonized; and those who actively support abortion are more in danger of ex–communication than canonization. The slaughter of innocents abhorent to the saints. We may understand why some people have abortions but we may never support them in their murderous intention. We certainly will love them and help them, but never in their intention to kill their child however tiny the child is. Sorry, there are no loopholes, Janet!!!

Regards, Trishie
 
I don’t think there was ever much wiggle room for a pro-choice mentality in the Church. From earliest times, the Fathers and Councils condemned the practice. If any saint did sympathize with abortion, it wasn’t in the open. I don’t think they would aspire to such holiness if they had such opinions, though.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I can think of only two biblical figures who compare to the pro-aborts.
  1. Herod – slaughterer of the innocents;
  2. Pontius Pilate – “I’m personally opposed, but …”
 
Janet_S said:
Does anyone know of a pro-choice, canonized saint or blessed? Someone with the opinion “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but if someone else wants to get one, I won’t force my beliefs on them. . . . .”
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There is absolutely no saint with that viewpoint now. If a saint-to-be did have that viewpoint at death, I can imagine that some time was spent in purgatory cleansing him or her of that viewpoint.

I would be more inclined to believe that an ancient saint might have been uncertain as to when life began based on an incomplete knowledge of biology. However, with what we know now of conception and reproduction, it is impossible to now hold that viewpoint.
 
Though not a saint, Dorothy Day often quoted the following, “When they come for the innocent, if it’s not over your dead body cursed be you and your religion.”

Mother Theresa of Calcutta said, “To believe that a child must die so that you can live as you wish is true poverty.”

Joan Andrews Bell stated the following concerning the Catholic presence outside abortion clinics, “We may not save their lives, and should they die (as usually happens, God forgive us) we can lift up our hearts to God Almighty on their behalf. It will be the only human love they will know on this earth."

Kahlil Gibran, a Syrian poet and theologian schooled by the Maronites said, “If my survival caused another to perish, then death would be sweeter and more beloved.”

Lastly, I leave you with a quote from Saint Gianna Beretta Molla, “If you must choose between me and the baby, no hesitation; choose – and I demand it – the baby. Save him!”
 
Some people don’t see anything wrong with killing people of racial minorities. Maybe we shouldn’t force our beliefs on them either.
 
Gamera said:
I can think of only two biblical figures who compare to the pro-aborts.
  1. Herod – slaughterer of the innocents;
  2. Pontius Pilate – “I’m personally opposed, but …”
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:: Applauds::
 
Janet, I don’t think you’re going to find any pro-choice saints. The church just wouldn’t let that happen.

However, I do remember the broiling debate sometime ago about embryonic stem cell research, where St. Thomas Aquinas’s writings were used in defense of the practice. I’m not well versed in it, but I remember somebody stating that Aquinas would not have had a problem with it because at the earliest stages of development, an embryo could not possess rationality and/or a soul. That probably could not be extended to include abortion, though.

(To others on this forum - please don’t e-stone me! I’m just trying to offer what I’ve heard in response to her question.)
 
ChemicalBean said:
Janet, I don’t think you’re going to find any pro-choice saints. The church just wouldn’t let that happen.

However, I do remember the broiling debate sometime ago about embryonic stem cell research, where St. Thomas Aquinas’s writings were used in defense of the practice. I’m not well versed in it, but I remember somebody stating that Aquinas would not have had a problem with it because at the earliest stages of development, an embryo could not possess rationality and/or a soul. That probably could not be extended to include abortion, though.

(To others on this forum - please don’t e-stone me! I’m just trying to offer what I’ve heard in response to her question.)
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No stones, but I think I know the sticky passage you’re referring to, and If I remember correctly, he speculated that in terms of being alive, an unborn child was considered to be more on the level of a plant than on the level of a human until the child started to move around in the womb. But then again, this is coming from an era well before ultrasounds, fetal heart rate monitors, etc, so as it turns out, the wee one moves around long before Mom can feel him.
 
ChemicalBean said:
Janet, I don’t think you’re going to find any pro-choice saints. The church just wouldn’t let that happen.

However, I do remember the broiling debate sometime ago about embryonic stem cell research, where St. Thomas Aquinas’s writings were used in defense of the practice. I’m not well versed in it, but I remember somebody stating that Aquinas would not have had a problem with it because at the earliest stages of development, an embryo could not possess rationality and/or a soul. That probably could not be extended to include abortion, though.

(To others on this forum - please don’t e-stone me! I’m just trying to offer what I’ve heard in response to her question.)
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Stojan Adasevic, an abortionist in the Soviet block, had a number of recurring dreams of St. Thomas Aquinas that changed his very Pro-Abortion views to the Pro-Life position. He suggests that St. Thomas Aquinas may have wanted to make amends for his error. A “must” read!!!

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14322
 
St. Thomas Aquinas would never deny the child’s right to life. He would never go against the teaching of the early Church on abortion, which is available on the library of this website. He was simply trying to define at what age in the development of a child, does the murder thereof become most deserving of legal repercussion.
 
Trishie said:
There is no saint who is pro-murder of infants. It is against the unique child of God in the womb, an irreplaceable person with an immortal soul destined to live for all eternity.
Click to expand...
Amen! It is against sanctity to snuff out the life of a helpless innocent. And who is more innocent; Who is more helpless than a child in his or her mothers womb?
 
ChemicalBean said:
Janet, I don’t think you’re going to find any pro-choice saints. The church just wouldn’t let that happen.

However, I do remember the broiling debate sometime ago about embryonic stem cell research, where St. Thomas Aquinas’s writings were used in defense of the practice. I’m not well versed in it, but I remember somebody stating that Aquinas would not have had a problem with it because at the earliest stages of development, an embryo could not possess rationality and/or a soul. That probably could not be extended to include abortion, though.

(To others on this forum - please don’t e-stone me! I’m just trying to offer what I’ve heard in response to her question.)
Click to expand...
I’ve heard about that too; and also about St Augustine. Both Aquinas and Augustine wrote about ensoulment, a theory they got from the Greek philosophers. They believed a child received his or her rational soul at quickening, which was a month or so after conception. Neither of these saints said it was okay to have an abortion before ensoulment occurred; but, at least according to Augustine, it was a more serious sin to kill a child after ensoulment.

If you remember the controversy last summer with Nancy Pelosi on Meet the Press, she used a quote from Augustine to support a woman’s right to choose. I believe she got this whole argument from Garry Wills who has used a similar argument.

The reason I started this thread is because all Catholics are called to be saints. Our saints were heroic people, and I’m not aware of any of them who upheld the pro-choice mantra of “I’m personally opposed, but. . .” Can a Catholic strive to be a saint at the same time he or she settles for the pro-choice mindset? It’s something to think about since (judging from the last presidential election) over 50% of Catholics think this is acceptable.
 
Janet_S said:
The reason I started this thread is because all Catholics are called to be saints. Our saints were heroic people, and I’m not aware of any of them who upheld the pro-choice mantra of “I’m personally opposed, but. . .” Can a Catholic strive to be a saint at the same time he or she settles for the pro-choice mindset? It’s something to think about since (judging from the last presidential election) over 50% of Catholics think this is acceptable.
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One thing you will find common among all saints is their lack of compromise on moral issues based on the facts available to them. We now have the full knowledge that life begins at conception. To compromise on this issue is not a sign of sanctity. It’s a sign or moral corruption.

Considering that most self-proclaimed Catholic in the United States don’t attend Mass regularly, much less Reconciliation, I wouldn’t look too deep in the voting statistics. In Catholicism, morality is not decided by popular vote.
 
Drilling4Truth said:
Joan Andrews Bell stated the following concerning the Catholic presence outside abortion clinics, “We may not save their lives, and should they die (as usually happens, God forgive us) we can lift up our hearts to God Almighty on their behalf. It will be the only human love they will know on this earth."
Click to expand...
What a remarkable statement! And as true as the sky. I never thought about it in quite that way.
 
claymcdermott said:
St. Thomas Aquinas would never deny the child’s right to life. He would never go against the teaching of the early Church on abortion, which is available on the library of this website. He was simply trying to define at what age in the development of a child, does the murder thereof become most deserving of legal repercussion.
Click to expand...
Amen. There is a distinction between ensoulment and abortion. In crude terms, the lack of a soul does not justify abortion.
 
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