Pro-choice saints?

[Lainey63]

Only those who chose to follow God and to do the Will of God are saints…see! How’s that for choice!

 

[grampben]

Did Augustine of Hippo not question that life begins at conception?

 

[mlchance]

Did Augustine of Hippo not question that life begins at conception?

Perhaps he did.

But isn’t it interesting how many times pro-abortion folks try to justify their aberrant opinions with recourse to 1600-year-old scientific opinions that have been chucked to the roadside by both the Church and embryology?

It is a scientific fact that a new human life is formed at conception. To assert otherwise is irrational.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[rotlex]

This post got me thinking. First, let me state, I am 100% pro life, anti-abortion etc. I read a lot of forums where these issues are discussed.

A question was posed that I read some time ago, and I am wondering how those here would answer. Regarding “Pro-choice” saints, or anyone for that matter, how can one NOT be “Pro-choice” and still believe that God gave us free will? In other words, we want to take away the right of someone to “choose”, yet God has given them free will to do as they choose. I think you get the idea, so I won’t really ramble with it any further, but how do you feel about that way of thinking?

Again, let me restate, I am Pro life, and would never, ever consider abortion “OK”, however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

 

[catharina]

Does anyone know of a pro-choice, canonized saint or blessed? Someone with the opinion “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but if someone else wants to get one, I won’t force my beliefs on them. . . . .”

If you know of one, please give quotes and links to quotes if available.

Also, if you just want to give quotes about what your favorite saint has to say about abortion–for or against–add that to the thread as well.

There aren’t any pro-choice saints and there won’t be any.

 

[catharina]

This post got me thinking. First, let me state, I am 100% pro life, anti-abortion etc. I read a lot of forums where these issues are discussed.

A question was posed that I read some time ago, and I am wondering how those here would answer. Regarding “Pro-choice” saints, or anyone for that matter, how can one NOT be “Pro-choice” and still believe that God gave us free will? In other words, we want to take away the right of someone to “choose”, yet God has given them free will to do as they choose. I think you get the idea, so I won’t really ramble with it any further, but how do you feel about that way of thinking?

Again, let me restate, I am Pro life, and would never, ever consider abortion “OK”, however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

So toss away any and all laws? Please.

 

[rotlex]

So toss away any and all laws? Please.

An easy answer, or so I am told by anyone who see’s the pro-choice way of things. Again, I agree with you, but that is not to say that when in a debate with someone on the subject, it is as easy as answering as you have.

 

[Genesis315]

This post got me thinking. First, let me state, I am 100% pro life, anti-abortion etc. I read a lot of forums where these issues are discussed.

A question was posed that I read some time ago, and I am wondering how those here would answer. Regarding “Pro-choice” saints, or anyone for that matter, how can one NOT be “Pro-choice” and still believe that God gave us free will? In other words, we want to take away the right of someone to “choose”, yet God has given them free will to do as they choose. I think you get the idea, so I won’t really ramble with it any further, but how do you feel about that way of thinking?

Again, let me restate, I am Pro life, and would never, ever consider abortion “OK”, however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

God has given authority and responsibility to those who govern to ensure a just ordering of society and protect the common good (cf. Romans 13). No one argues with laws against stealing or adult homicide, even though those too are limiting a choice of certain individuals. While it is true that not every sin need be outlawed (they can be tolerated for just reasons), the sin of abortion is so radically repugnant to authentic justice and so harmful to the common good that, as with adult murder, there really is no just reason to tolerate it.

 

[rotlex]

God has given authority and responsibility to those who govern to ensure a just ordering of society and protect the common good (cf. Romans 13). No one argues with laws against stealing or adult homicide, even though those too are limiting a choice of certain individuals. While it is true that not every sin need be outlawed (they can be tolerated for just reasons), the sin of abortion is so radically repugnant to authentic justice and so harmful to the common good that, as with adult murder, there really is no just reason to tolerate it.

Thanks, I may actually eh, quote that one. The problem, for me at least, when dealing with many of the pro choice lot are that they simply do not think abortion is murder. It is very, very difficult to overcome that in many.

 

[catharina]

An easy answer, or so I am told by anyone who see’s the pro-choice way of things. Again, I agree with you, but that is not to say that when in a debate with someone on the subject, it is as easy as answering as you have.

It’s easier. When one KNOWS an action to be completely immoral one is required to oppose it - even in opposition to those stuck with answers of MAYBE this and MAYBE that … It’s called working for the common good.

 

[mlchance]

In other words, we want to take away the right of someone to “choose”…

No one has the right to do evil.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Janet_S]

This post got me thinking. First, let me state, I am 100% pro life, anti-abortion etc. I read a lot of forums where these issues are discussed.

A question was posed that I read some time ago, and I am wondering how those here would answer. Regarding “Pro-choice” saints, or anyone for that matter, how can one NOT be “Pro-choice” and still believe that God gave us free will? In other words, we want to take away the right of someone to “choose”, yet God has given them free will to do as they choose. I think you get the idea, so I won’t really ramble with it any further, but how do you feel about that way of thinking?

Again, let me restate, I am Pro life, and would never, ever consider abortion “OK”, however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

If I decide to cut off my arm, should I have the right to expect that a doctor will do this? After all, it’s my choice.

What about the choice of the healthcare worker to refuse to participate in abortion? The choices most healthcare workers face are to cooperate in the abortion, to find another job, or to get fired. I heard of a Catholic obstetrician who refused to participate in abortion during his medical school training and residency. He was able to do this, but he had to search far and wide and move across the country to find suitable places.

Don’t be fooled by the word “choice,” at least in the way the pro-aborts use it. Planned Parenthood opposes any rights for healthcare workers who refuse to refer women for abortions, who refuse to give abortifacients or birth control pills, or who refuse to perform abortions. Real freedom is the freedom to choose the good, and that is getting harder and harder for people to do all the time. What will it be like when Obama and all the other pro-abortion Democrats come to power, only God knows.

I think pro-choice people need to look at the bigger picture. It’s not a simple matter of one person’s choice. We know what abortion does to a child, that is clear, but what does it do to the mothers and fathers? What does it do to doctors and nurses? What does it do to our country and its future?

Maybe everyone should spend a week working at an abortion clinic and taking out the trash. It might not change everyone’s mind, but it may change some, and it may make you think twice about the choices people are making.

 

[fix]

however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

Yes, the state is obligated to defend innocent life. I fail to see any logic in claiming one has a “right” to murder.

 

[06convert]

however, is it really my right to make someone else decision for them?

No, but it’s not their decision to make. It’s not their life to kill. Life doesn’t belong to us, it belongs to God.

 

[GailMac4]

Let’s see, Saint Paul was persecuting the Church of God before he was Saint Paul. I suppose if you consider the babes in the womb part of the Church of God, and they get murdered before they are born…or maybe while they are being born or shortly after? Hmmmmmm…would you want to be the one to say St. Paul was pro abortion before he was St. Paul? O dear what did he do as Saul?

Peace,

Gail

 

[adrift]

Let’s see, Saint Paul was persecuting the Church of God before he was Saint Paul. I suppose if you consider the babes in the womb part of the Church of God, and they get murdered before they are born…or maybe while they are being born or shortly after? Hmmmmmm…would you want to be the one to say St. Paul was pro abortion before he was St. Paul? O dear what did he do as Saul?

Peace,

Gail

I am assuming that what you mean before he was Saint Paul is not before he died. Many make this mistake. They think that Paul’s name was divinely changed from Saul.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia

As he belonged to the tribe of Benjamin he was given at the time of his circumcision the name of Saul, which must have been common in that tribe in memory of the first king of the Jews (Philippians 3:5). As a Roman citizen he also bore the Latin name of Paul. It was quite usual for the Jews of that time to have two names, one Hebrew, the other Latin or Greek, between which there was often a certain assonance and which were joined together exactly in the manner made use of by St. Luke (Acts 13:9: Saulos ho kai Paulos). See on this point Deissmann, “Bible Studies” (Edinburgh, 1903, 313-17.) It was natural that in inaugurating his apostolate among the Gentiles Paul should have adopted his Roman name, especially as the name Saul had a ludicrous meaning in Greek

So as you see when he was persecuting the Christians his name was Paul, his Roman name. No Paul could not be considered pro abortion even when he was persecuting the Christians. Nor is there any other saint who would fit the op’s definition

 

[AHapka]

No Paul could not be considered pro abortion even when he was persecuting the Christians. Nor is there any other saint who would fit the op’s definition

I think it is possible to argue that there were saints who at one point in their lives may have been pro-abortion before their conversion (or in some cases, returning to the church).

Don’t forget we have had some saints do pretty bad things before repenting of them and leading saintly lives.

Of course, it goes without saying that no saint now holds that point of view.

 

[adrift]

I think it is possible to argue that there were saints who at one point in their lives may have been pro-abortion before their conversion (or in some cases, returning to the church).

Don’t forget we have had some saints do pretty bad things before repenting of them and leading saintly lives.

Of course, it goes without saying that no saint now holds that point of view.

Anything is possible but abortion as being acceptable has only occurred in the last forty years. Possible yes probable no. Especially when you add in what the op stated.

Someone with the opinion “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but if someone else wants to get one, I won’t force my beliefs on them. . . . .”

That idea has only come about since the legalization of abortion in this country. I may be wrong, and if I am I would like to know, but I believe that particular argument is of recent origin.

 

[grampben]

Perhaps he did.

But isn’t it interesting how many times pro-abortion folks try to justify their aberrant opinions with recourse to 1600-year-old scientific opinions that have been chucked to the roadside by both the Church and embryology?

It is a scientific fact that a new human life is formed at conception. To assert otherwise is irrational.

– Mark L. Chance.

I did not at all express a pro choice view.
The question was were there any pro choice saints and I contributed by giving the point that Augustine didn’t think life begins at conception.

If you are calling me pro abortion, you’re accusing me of being a murderer. I resent that.

 

[RosaryFan]

Does anyone know of a pro-choice, canonized saint or blessed? Someone with the opinion “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but if someone else wants to get one, I won’t force my beliefs on them. . . . .”

If you know of one, please give quotes and links to quotes if available.

Also, if you just want to give quotes about what your favorite saint has to say about abortion–for or against–add that to the thread as well.

Any person who is not willing to impose their religious beliefs on others (*i.e., *hides their light under a bushel) is probably not bound for sainthood.