Pro-Life and World Hunger

[mapleoak]

WHO is the World Health Organization.

Thanks, I didn’t pickup that this was an acronym from the way it was written.

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

i never used the word abortion or any word which suggested it. some find it a convenient wayn to help solve the proble, you seem to have it on your mind when you see it and it is not there. i would nevre advocated that as a way of controlling population. the udea ia abhorrant to me. there you go, must be because you have so much difficulty reading my chicken scratchings. iread your writing perfectly and you were very wron about at lleast that one issue. care tro apologize. its important enough to me wo warrant one. neacessity to measure church or any other churc that dispenses mercy, justice, love, agony, whatever. if they say they do it and if that saying affects me in some way, financially for example, then i should measure their effectiveness in doing so. ther are criteria which define peoples behaviour in any organization including the christian church. consider using envelopes with your name printed on them for donations in church. do you think the amount of money collected in churec, or perhaps and faith based organization would drop if the envelopes did now have personal names on them.please educte me anytime you or anyone else suggest that i could use it. my mind is not what it was(dont laugh, neither is yours). i thought i had reasonable expectation that i was fairly welll educated. the only potentially measurabkle thing i called for was “doing enough” if you think they are show me the figures, and ill change my beliefs. once again pro-life,WHERE DO YOU GET THIS> i dont deny or affirm this. it is none of your business. sorry about difficulty in typing. i truly appreciate your muddling through and decoding what i writer. have long detaikled explanantion for it. sad sad story. too long to go into now.

 

[mapleoak]

i never used the word abortion or any word which suggested it. some find it a convenient wayn to help solve the proble, you seem to have it on your mind when you see it and it is not there. i would nevre advocated that as a way of controlling population. the udea ia abhorrant to me. there you go, must be because you have so much difficulty reading my chicken scratchings. iread your writing perfectly and you were very wron about at lleast that one issue. care tro apologize. its important enough to me wo warrant one.

I apologized in advance. Check the end of my last reply.

neacessity to measure church or any other churc that dispenses mercy, justice, love, agony, whatever.

These things are not measurable, but beyond measure.

if they say they do it and if that saying affects me in some way, financially for example, then i should measure their effectiveness in doing so.

You can choose how you spend your money and whether it is being used effectively.

ther are criteria which define peoples behaviour in any organization including the christian church. consider using envelopes with your name printed on them for donations in church. do you think the amount of money collected in churec, or perhaps and faith based organization would drop if the envelopes did now have personal names on them.

I have no idea. Most churches allow you to use envelopes and/or make anonymous donations.

the only potentially measurabkle thing i called for was “doing enough” if you think they are show me the figures, and ill change my beliefs. once again pro-life,WHERE DO YOU GET THIS> i dont deny or affirm this.

Because the topic of the thread is making the assertation that people who are pro-life are by that virtue pro-hunger which is unfounded.

it is none of your business. sorry about difficulty in typing. i truly appreciate your muddling through and decoding what i writer. have long detaikled explanantion for it. sad sad story. too long to go into now.

That is okay and apologies again.

 

[East_Anglican]

I am against abortion, world hunger, the death penalty, sickness that can be cured that is not and unnecessary war.

But then I am pro-life.

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

please stop talking about my email as if it were an advertisement for abortion clinics. i said and meant that there CANNOT BE anything in what i wrotw that suggested how i felt about abortion one way or the other. regardless of my position i deeply resent you taking nothing from my email and creating an abotionist from it. Believe me, you know no more now about my belief abouyt abortion then you did when you first read my eamil , which is nothing. perhaps as you suggest we have a difficult time measuring the amount of ceertyain values in any system. this doesnt mean we should stop trying. and we can certainly tell when the amount drops anywhere close to our concept of zero.

 

[mmyers]

responst to about three or four of you. if you imagine thaqt you dont pay for \costs associate dwith a social progam whether you choose to tax yourself and others, you are dreaming, think abou it. the tax dollar is less as it passes thriough the hands of countless bureaucrats. yes i suppose those people who work for faith based activities are able with the help of god to work for nothing. they dont eat, have children to support, get ill. how much of what they take is therer. perhaps not as much as those in government , i diont have the figurwes and if you had them it would have been nice if you had cited them. perhaps it is also true anbout amount given to faith based increases as taxes go down. i dont have figures, it is counterintuitive, and if you are basing it on anyhtiing th e bush administration has said about faith based instititions they have already been caugh distorting the figures. estate tax, where do you get your figures. even if you are correct can you at least visualize circumstances wherby it would still be a good thing for our society to do. more accurat to say that the amount of money collected every year by the estate tax evens out when compared to the cost of collectin it. however if the estate tax were left the way it was originally intended instead of being changed by every rich family who can convince a congressman that giving that family some form of special subsidy would make the system work more fairly we woukld collect far and above wht we collect now. anyone figured out how many of the 67000 pagfges in the Irs code, the so many people are complainig about are devoted to dealing with special circumstances of the very wealth in the estate tax. the world wants to knowthis is for VAN LAMPLEY [please explain how my asking for an increase in the tax we pay for social programs and an increase in those taxes is the equivilant of your doing something, but the equivilent o fmmy doing nothing even though i pay the same tax. perhaps it true that only if you complain about the propsed increase in taxes does your increased paynment becomes significant or even noticible. after all the take out of weach of our wallets is the same. the pain might be the same. the degree o mitigation knowing that the money is going to help certain individuals might be different. you ofter see such people-----where? what kind of prople do you associate with to give you this idea.
to MMYERS your staement “Exceopt for god of course” part iof what i was inferring without trying to offen too many people in my initial email, is that withn or without god nothing seems to happen. except gosd of copurse. Really ? and he has done such a good job so far.

My husband is a CPA with a Master’s in Tax and if that is not expertise enough for you I will research the stats. But you go on thinking that I am a brainwashed political pawn…you are very obviously more educated than I am. If you are delusional enough to believe that Bush is behind my economical and political statements than you have not heard of Adam Smith, Milton Freedman and more recently Alan Greenspan.
I was not however insinuating that people would work for free, I was saying that an inefficent system is draining our resources and people tend to give more to charity when they are not being forced to give in the way of taxes.
No I do not believe that taxing the rich is a positive solution. Here is why:
1)If you are rich you have more of an incentive to find loopholes in the tax code because it will save you more money than it will most people. Then the tax code becomes more complicated to close these loopholes and fast-forward we now have our complicated tax code that most people can’t understand and they have to hire someone to figure it out for them.
2)If you are thinking why won’t these rich people just pay thier tax bill…think if you were in thier shoes…do you think that the government knows the best way to spend your money or do you think that you can do the most good with it? So would you not do the same thing?
3)I work with the poor and homeless and for every one person that is using the welfare system to better themselves, there are 10 that are being lazy and passing it on to the next generation. Shame on the system that does not better them, but simply allows this to go on and on. But in the meantime we cannot penilize the rich, than will be distructive to society because when you are punished for making more money then there is less of an incentive to make that money and so the economy slows down for lack of innovation. Example: when you recieve a raise at work the throws you into another tax bracket, you could be making significanly less than the year before because of the increase in you tax bill.

NOTE: subsidies are not given to people trying to change the tax code…those are what are given to farmers and such and are also counterproductive, but that is a discussion for another day.
I could not understand the comments after please explain…if you would reprase I would be happy to enlighten you.

If you are truely interested in a more effective tax system check out Fairtax.com…you are taxed on what you spend…no complicated system and no loopholes, just a flat federal sales tax.
[/quote]

 

[mmyers]

my plan for feedingf somalia. please read the email wher i talke about collective intellectual and moral eneergy being finite and dircted towards specific activities. but yiou want to know the answer so i guess i will just have tro tell you. there is only one solution and it is so sin=mple that i really fail to understand wha you didnt come up with it. how do iattempt to solve the proble of feeding the starving people in somalia. n i figure out using the very best inteligence available to me, intelligne which heretofore has been directee towads figuring out how to kill the miost people for the band and the buck, and i tell them figure it out. we will dio what we have to th solve this problem, even if we are required to take the same steps we took in ioraaq for much less worhty goals. finally have as a main goal FEED THE PEOPLE. think of it as a project with all the gravitas that we took upon ourselves when we landed at normandy or went to the mood. BUT FIND A SOLUTION now perhaps you may not be able to do this without sacrificing something or somebody. if so just think of qwhat we sacrificed in Granada, panama, and iraq 2, this will make it a little more comforting for you finally forget about what god is going to do. hes had at a miniumun 6000 years and the problen has just gottne worse. one woulf wlmost believe that he enjoys it.

Interesting: Did you know that it has been proposed that there are actually parts of Africa that are in fact UNDERpopulated. The do no have the infrstructure to support getting the resources to the people and so in effect us introducing our own values of less is more is actually killing them. And since you are such a fan of supporting evidence (even though you use none) you may read the artical at the Cato intstitute (an economic thinktank). www.cato.org

The world’s population has increased six fold over the last 50 years while the world’s resources have increased 80-fold. The problem is not resources but simply the over involvement of government. Civil war and economic policies are to blame, not overpopulation. Champions of nations generally emerge from those nations that need it the most and so by restricting the population, you restrict thier ability to move forward. For the great majority of thier lives people are resouces, not liablities.

I am beginning to realize that it is the lack of education that is causing these problems and not God. Ironically you are proving his existance.

 

[mapleoak]

please stop talking about my email as if it were an advertisement for abortion clinics. i said and meant that there CANNOT BE anything in what i wrotw that suggested how i felt about abortion one way or the other. regardless of my position i deeply resent you taking nothing from my email and creating an abotionist from it. Believe me, you know no more now about my belief abouyt abortion then you did when you first read my eamil , which is nothing. perhaps as you suggest we have a difficult time measuring the amount of ceertyain values in any system. this doesnt mean we should stop trying. and we can certainly tell when the amount drops anywhere close to our concept of zero.

When ones position is purposely kept a deep secret, it is difficult to have an intelligent discussion with each other. If you are not interested in wanting to share your beliefs with those having the discussion, don’t be surprised when people infer from your posts in the discussion. It makes no sense on a thread that claims to make the link between anti-abortion and pro-hunger to partake in that discussion if you believe it is “none of our business”.

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

1. about parts of africa and what to do about them. evuidently i wasnt clear in my email. do whatever you have to to get the job done. whatever you have to,. we ah]=have spent most of our human existance fiuringing out wasy to get the jod=b done in case of thrying to kill the other person. and we hav succeeded, although not as well as some would have it. redirect the energy. to capture normandy, we knew beforehand that ift would be extremently difficult. bu t the goal was a worthy one. we tokmt the best military minds we had and said,invade and capture normandy. im sure all of them had some doubts about the moraluity of sending many young men to their certain detrhs and to killing so many inclun=ding freach. they must have said to themselves. there are horriblle things that will be necessary to do to cature nornmandy. but, using the best military intllectuals and planners we hav decided that that is something that has to be done no matter what the cost. i would suggest that allowing that 25, 9000 figure to remain for even another week is morally indefensible. we will have to make many sacrifices to achieve the goal we sset out for ourselvesd. the end will justify the beginning.
   everything you say is true except for as stated above. the 25000 figure is morally reprehensible no matter which way you look at it. it should be so much that that we cannot stand it. whatever is standing inn the way of getting these children food, clean water medicqal supplies, do as i suggest. whatever you have to. it cannot be allowed to exist and still persisit in discussing he possibluity that we are motentially moral beings. make supplying them the most major priority you can, just as we have with so many destructive things. get the job done. we have succeeded doing things this way before. perhaps we will fail, certainly possible. but worth the effort certainly. necessary as moral beings, definitly. worth what cost we must pay to se it done up to you.
   about education. perhaops. if this is truly as important an activity as you suggest ( i guess to learn morality, oodness, mercy, kindness etc) why wont god stand away from whateverb he is doing to prevent it and let us get on with it. he either is precventying it or is allowing it. or is neutral. do you see any other possibilities?

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

sectret position on abortion. what secret. as far as i am able to determine nobady has asked me my position including you. you read son=mething that i wrote that evidently bothered you, decided to inject you own personal prejudices into it and voila, up spang a pro abortionist. im afraid that that is what you and perhaps others do when faced with similar situations and i wish you would stop. it plays hell with anybody who is trying to reason sonmething out. one last time. YOU DO NOT KNOW MY POSITION ON ABORTION. I FAIL TO SEE WHAT THAT POSITION HAS TO DO WITH WHAT I SAID IN MY EMAIL. HOWEVER, YOU HAVE MY PERMISSION AND THE PERMISSION OF THE CONSTITUTION AND 250 YEARS OF TRADITION TO BELIEVE ANY DAMN THING YOU CHOOSE TO AS RIDICULOUS AS IT MAY BE GO WITH MY 4 GODS

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

BRAINWASHED POLITICAL PAWN, WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET HTAT IDEA FROM. LESS INTELLIGENT THAN YOU. WHO TOLD YOU THATY, CERTAINLY NOT ME. you seem intent on doing yourself a series of great dishonor, based on me evidence. you are free to condier yourself as anything you want but i would never sugest any of the tihings i you seem to believe i have said or implied about you. ill try and answer the rest of you eemail later when i recover from what you have said. meanwhile please believe me, i never implied, suggested or believed any og the thing syou said i thought about you.

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

here i go. long letter long reply. hope you can stand trying to read it to the end. 1. rich and tax loopholes. this endemic ad particular to the human species. in every period in human history, every one, the rich have spend a large portion of their time, not having much else to do, trying to figure out loopholes in tthe tax laws. usually succeeded. found that they could almost always with all the time to figure out how, they could almost always figure out how to pay less in taxes then that particular society originally thought they should, or that particular king thought they should. any system of taxation you choose this wil probably say the same. not necessarily because they have more money but because they have more time. solution im not sure there is one, it sees inevitable, just like trying to wipe out sex. perhaps if we were to guarantee the death penalty by the most gruesome methods pssible if anyone is cought trying to get away from paying what we have decided should be his share of taxes, it might deter a few really dont know. any suggesytions. 2 please re read what youi said in No 1. rich and innovation leads to find loopholes leads to save more money leads to more complicate d tax cade (compiction therfore is the result ogf what???) leads to hire someone to figure out tax code leads to for rich more money leads to find a loophole in order to, pay less taxes leads to save more money anyway my finger hurt and the list just goes on and on till eternity. at least this is i believe what youn are saying overtly at least. according to this this the rich simply by behaving *** the rich do can dictate the complexity or lack of complexity of the tax code and then use that complexity as a reason for developing an alternate tax system, such as a flat tax, to solve the complexitynm problem. then accoording to the above, they will use the fact, as they have all throuugh histry to create more money leads to looking for loophols, a more complex tax code leads to etc ad infinitum. if this i s what you want fine but recognize it for what it is. it may be true that letting the rich go to make as much as their innnovation can carry them is what is best for society, but i believe we are in terrible trouble when we give that much power to any single group in our society.
2 you are saying that the rich are rich because they know how to become rich and handle money. thwerefor and i really find this part frightening, they are the ones who should ewecide the best way to spend our taxes. i might suggest that a person working 40 hours a week making 9.00 an hout supporting wa wife and 2 kids knows more about budgeting that any millionaire. his life may depend on his doing a good job. if what yiou are saying is true that the rich are rich and therfore know how to handle money better, than perhaps we can ciombine the best of our present sytem with your new ideas… keep on electing people so that all of us can maintain the ilusion of representationship, and pay each legislator 50. 00 000. they will then be rich, wil have earned the money by getting elected and will know the best way to handle our taxes.
3 for this i have ro quit now, fingers very tire. if you are interested let me know and ill do my best to answer the rest of your lettder if not ill certainly understand. go wit my own personal 45 gods

 

[KathleenElsie]

This discussion has become a soap box discussion IMHO. The last few posts are just tooooo hard to read. As for me I will stop reading this and go forward to others things. Besides the time can be better spent helping others then talking about it.

 

[kettle]

Paragraphs and spell check are your friends, especially if you’re trying to make a point. My eyes glazed over because reading those “emails” is like trying to decipher a secret code written in a foreign language.

 

[Al_Masetti]

More transparency in government would go a long way toward advancing the pro-life cause and also relieving world hunger.

Visit Grover Norquist’s Web site at www.atr.org

 

[mmyers]

here i go. long letter long reply. hope you can stand trying to read it to the end. 1. rich and tax loopholes. this endemic ad particular to the human species. in every period in human history, every one, the rich have spend a large portion of their time, not having much else to do, trying to figure out loopholes in tthe tax laws. usually succeeded. found that they could almost always with all the time to figure out how, they could almost always figure out how to pay less in taxes then that particular society originally thought they should, or that particular king thought they should. any system of taxation you choose this wil probably say the same. not necessarily because they have more money but because they have more time. solution im not sure there is one, it sees inevitable, just like trying to wipe out sex. perhaps if we were to guarantee the death penalty by the most gruesome methods pssible if anyone is cought trying to get away from paying what we have decided should be his share of taxes, it might deter a few really dont know. any suggesytions. 2 please re read what youi said in No 1. rich and innovation leads to find loopholes leads to save more money leads to more complicate d tax cade (compiction therfore is the result ogf what???) leads to hire someone to figure out tax code leads to for rich more money leads to find a loophole in order to, pay less taxes leads to save more money anyway my finger hurt and the list just goes on and on till eternity. at least this is i believe what youn are saying overtly at least. according to this this the rich simply by behaving *** the rich do can dictate the complexity or lack of complexity of the tax code and then use that complexity as a reason for developing an alternate tax system, such as a flat tax, to solve the complexitynm problem. then accoording to the above, they will use the fact, as they have all throuugh histry to create more money leads to looking for loophols, a more complex tax code leads to etc ad infinitum. if this i s what you want fine but recognize it for what it is. it may be true that letting the rich go to make as much as their innnovation can carry them is what is best for society, but i believe we are in terrible trouble when we give that much power to any single group in our society.
2 you are saying that the rich are rich because they know how to become rich and handle money. thwerefor and i really find this part frightening, they are the ones who should ewecide the best way to spend our taxes. i might suggest that a person working 40 hours a week making 9.00 an hout supporting wa wife and 2 kids knows more about budgeting that any millionaire. his life may depend on his doing a good job. if what yiou are saying is true that the rich are rich and therfore know how to handle money better, than perhaps we can ciombine the best of our present sytem with your new ideas… keep on electing people so that all of us can maintain the ilusion of representationship, and pay each legislator 50. 00 000. they will then be rich, wil have earned the money by getting elected and will know the best way to handle our taxes.
3 for this i have ro quit now, fingers very tire. if you are interested let me know and ill do my best to answer the rest of your lettder if not ill certainly understand. go wit my own personal 45 gods

You have given me enough to go on for now. I do not suggest that the rich spend their time searching for loopholes ( I think that it is humourous that you depict them as lazy and having nothing else to do, when in fact most are very hard working and have made many personal sacrifices)…they hire CPAs to find them. More importantly though I am opposed to a FLAT tax…I am however in favor of FAIR tax which is simply you are taxed on what you buy. So in essence if you want to buy a yacht this year you will have to pay tax…if you choose to give your money away you do not pay tax…I will let you use your imagination to see how much good this could bring about.

*A more complicated tax code is written each time that they find an area where the rich have found a loophole

What you fail to see is that the rich are not an elite group that has excluded you. They have just figured out the system of investing, innovation and putting their future as more important then their now. It is truely attainable by more people than are trying. Mybe you should do a little finance research in your spare time.

Right now my generation is going to have to have more than one million dollars to retire and maintain a middle class lifestyle. The average years spent in retirement is 19 at current and is only rising. Right now My family’s retirement plan is to have over two million before retirement and I am living in moderate conditions as a stay at home mom of three. The rich are not some group living somewhere else…they are going to be your neighbors.

I would never suggest that the rich would know the best way to spend our taxes…only that they should have some say over their own money. But hey, maybe electing a CEO would help us to balance our budget…hey if we are thinking about hiring a guy with virtually no good ideas or experience just because he has a law degree from Harvard, why not?

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

good letter illm try to talk more tio you tomorrow,

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

ill try again. let me tell you a story which may go a ways toward explauing why i believe it is necessary for the rich to pay more in taxes than others. about a woman named bet 49 years old. graduated high scholl barely, found herself after that and workedd very hard to save her money to go to college. went to u of Minnesota and paid for herself and got a degree in occupational therapy. her last semester was spent doing an internship at an institute in california that is world renown in therapy. they like her work so much they asked for and received permisssion to have beth graduate out there and step into a job immediately. shedid . she was well known in her profession published articles in the professional magazine. recieive advancements etc. finalyy though she coam back to minnesota and her family , and especially where they dont have earthquakes. those are what really did it. she couldnt stand them. anyway got ajob atb a good hospital. went up the ladder and was close to getting a promotion to an admisistative position. she couldnt acept because it would have meant not having patients to work on. bought a house, , paid her taxes, tio make a long stry ahort, beth was a person who was just a tad this side of exceptional, but nothing serious. what she really was was a woman who had done everything we as a society expected her to do,. she wasnt perfect, but look at the redord, ashe was the kind of daughter you hope for and the citized you wish everyone would be. then one day she got sick. she got something called cerebral vasculitis. it is so rare that only 101 cases arn known to have existed the last 35 years. she was fortunate in that one of the three doctors in the us who is recognized as an authority on the subject works at riochester mayo, only 80 miles away… this desease causes a series of strokes at various part so the body. nobody knows whay. if the patient is not diagnosed correcty relatively immediately and is given the medicine which her symptoms seem to call fior she will die. she diod manage to survive the first tow weeks, enought ime to go to mayo and get the correct diagnosis. she was putmojn a regimen ogf drugs, including sterois, anti depressents, ththree drugs that work on the vasculitis itself but at the same time drain her immune system. and others. she has been told that the combination of drugs she must takre to stay alive will cause the following side effects, side efects that she can expect to ccontinue for a minimus of betwee 18 and 24 months. shaorp headace all the tinme 2 intense depression all the time. 3 nauseau all the time 4 extreme fatigue all the time

 

[ALFREDENEUMAN]

i pressed the wronf button and lost the second part of theis email. have to do it all over again.tomorrow, when my two typing ingers heal.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Actually, the rich already pay more in taxes.

online.wsj.com/article/SB119786208643933077.html

Summary from December 2007 article:

Last week the Congressional Budget Office joined the IRS in releasing tax numbers for 2005, and part of the news is that the richest 1% paid about 39% of all income taxes that year. The richest 5% paid a tad less than 60%, and the richest 10% paid 70%. These tax shares are all up substantially since 1990, and even somewhat since 2000. Meanwhile, Americans with an income below the median – half of all households – paid a mere 3% of all income taxes in 2005. The richest 1.3 million tax-filers – those Americans with adjusted gross incomes of more than $365,000 in 2005 – paid more income tax than all of the 66 million American tax filers below the median in income. Ten times more.

ill try again. let me tell you a story which may go a ways toward explauing why i believe it is necessary for the rich to pay more in taxes than others. about a woman named bet 49 years old. graduated high scholl barely, found herself after that and workedd very hard to save her money to go to college. went to u of Minnesota and paid for herself and got a degree in occupational therapy. her last semester was spent doing an internship at an institute in california that is world renown in therapy. they like her work so much they asked for and received permisssion to have beth graduate out there and step into a job immediately. shedid . she was well known in her profession published articles in the professional magazine. recieive advancements etc. finalyy though she coam back to minnesota and her family , and especially where they dont have earthquakes. those are what really did it. she couldnt stand them. anyway got ajob atb a good hospital. went up the ladder and was close to getting a promotion to an admisistative position. she couldnt acept because it would have meant not having patients to work on. bought a house, , paid her taxes, tio make a long stry ahort, beth was a person who was just a tad this side of exceptional, but nothing serious. what she really was was a woman who had done everything we as a society expected her to do,. she wasnt perfect, but look at the redord, ashe was the kind of daughter you hope for and the citized you wish everyone would be. then one day she got sick. she got something called cerebral vasculitis. it is so rare that only 101 cases arn known to have existed the last 35 years. she was fortunate in that one of the three doctors in the us who is recognized as an authority on the subject works at riochester mayo, only 80 miles away… this desease causes a series of strokes at various part so the body. nobody knows whay. if the patient is not diagnosed correcty relatively immediately and is given the medicine which her symptoms seem to call fior she will die. she diod manage to survive the first tow weeks, enought ime to go to mayo and get the correct diagnosis. she was putmojn a regimen ogf drugs, including sterois, anti depressents, ththree drugs that work on the vasculitis itself but at the same time drain her immune system. and others. she has been told that the combination of drugs she must takre to stay alive will cause the following side effects, side efects that she can expect to ccontinue for a minimus of betwee 18 and 24 months. shaorp headace all the tinme 2 intense depression all the time. 3 nauseau all the time 4 extreme fatigue all the time