Pro-Life Catholics, how do you respond to this?

[midori]

My advice: get into a different business!

Ah, but my business is providing clean, safe, and affordable housing to people who aren’t financially able to buy their own home. (Hint: in my area, you can get a turnkey starter home for about $50-$75k.) So people’s personal decisions and priorities affect me very much! Much more so than “this poor person I know…”

But if I wasn’t in the local housing ecosystem, there would be a giant gap. There are two tiers below me: the government housing (which is full of bugs and drug addicts), and then the slumlords (no hot water, holes in the floor for critters to come up through). The tier above me is home ownership.

It makes me happy when I lose a tenant because they get their finances together and are able to go on to be a homeowner. Good for them.

It makes me sad when I lose a tenant because they can’t keep their life together enough— and they drop down into the tiers beneath me. But at the same time, no matter what personal wrong or loss I’ve suffered, I hope that it ultimately turns into a good thing for them, and they wake up one day and look around them and use that as motivation to pull their lives together.

But in the meantime, I clean up what they’ve left for me to handle, and I get on with life, and I try to do good where I can.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Is there any problem in existence that you don’t think could be solved by a government program?

I’ve given it some thought, and I can’t come up with anything that a “government program” couldn’t solve, or at least improve. That’s not to say that “any” government program is by definition good. It has to be well thought out and well executed. Just like any program, private or public. If it doesn’t work, get rid of it–or adjust it. But measure it by pre-determined criteria, not by anecdotal stories here and there. Statistics.

France is, by the way, below replacement fertility.

You’ll enjoy this article from 2015: France’s baby boom secret: get women into work and ditch rigid family norms | France | The Guardian

Conclusion? “The fertility rate is high in European countries where family norms are flexible, women feel free to work, pro-child policies are generous and childcare is well organised – in short, in countries that have come to terms with gender equality.”

 

[HopkinsReb]

I’ve given it some thought, and I can’t come up with anything that a “government program” couldn’t solve, or at least improve. That’s not to say that “any” government program is by definition good. It has to be well thought out and well executed. Just like any program, private or public. If it doesn’t work, get rid of it–or adjust it. But measure it by pre-determined criteria, not by anecdotal stories here and there. Statistics.

I would agree that it is possible for a government program to improve any problem. Whether it’s likely to is another question. Remember that in a democracy, government programs are made by people, those unruly creatures for which the programs are needed in the first place.

You’ll enjoy this article from 2015: France’s baby boom secret: get women into work and ditch rigid family norms | France | The Guardian

Conclusion? “The fertility rate is high in European countries where family norms are flexible, women feel free to work, pro-child policies are generous and childcare is well organised – in short, in countries that have come to terms with gender equality.”

I like how the word “high” is used to describe nations with sub-replacement fertility rates.

There’s a lot more going on here than not having “come to terms with gender equality.”

 

[FaithfulKnight]

You are pretty much spot on. The key word is “augmentation” or temporarily in place while you gather yourself and become self sufficient. Dependency on the government was never intended to be permanently life sustaining. The reality is some may have a more difficult time of it but the ease in which the government handouts come one can see why so many just sit back and rely on the easy way out. Many are able to get back on their feet and help themselves succeed.

 

[po18guy]

The argument is a red herring. All of those other group’s names are alive and were not aborted. Why not help all? It is not an either-or proposition.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I like how the word “high” is used to describe nations with sub-replacement fertility rates.

Compared to other European countries. And others.

There’s a lot more going on here than not having “come to terms with gender equality.”

I agree. But nowadays people (you know who you are…) are looking for “proof” in a mathematical sense. Let’s take minimum wage. You can’t run an experiment with control subjects and raise some to $15 an hour and keep others at $10 an hour and see what happens. There is, as you say, “a lot going on.” There are all sorts of factors which pull any results in all sorts of directions. The best you can do is try to find ways to measure the impact as accurately as possible. Try to find similar populations in different states, etc. etc. But there will always be people who say “You can’t prove that such-and-such policy worked.” No we can’t “prove” it. But if we all acted by those standards, no one would do anything. Ever.

I think the main problem is the philosophical outlook of the two groups (gov. vs. private). People like me, who believe that the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things, see the gov. as a community, a group of people bound together, that is responsive to the members of the group, which includes me. The “private” advocates see the “government” as some alien force that is distant and unresponsive, and most probably corrupt and almost by definition inefficient and ineffective. Both sides can give thousands of examples (private sector: Enron! BP! Purdue Pharma!..) And it’s charming to dream of a world where private charity alone solves all the problems. But that’s a fantasy. Nowhere is that true. Not even close. And if you look at “successful” countries, it comes down to their government: is it responsive and democratic? Does it fight corruption? Are their programs developed by experts in the field and run in demonstration programs before being rolled out nationally? And so on.

And now off to TV land. I need to see what outrage Trump has perpetrated today.

 

[goout]

goout:

In the mentoring work that I do money is a moot point.

@midori as well.

But isn’t it possible for money to set up and support mentors and such initiatives? Imagine the potential if we gave a hundred billion to such initiatives.

Also, more money can purchase smaller classes as well as school-based counselors, psychologists and social workers who can keep tabs and guide students specially those in need. Appropriations can assist in the establishment of other initiatives that build up community such as this or other social resources.

There is a glut of resources available and I am not exaggerating. Pick any area of help you want and there are programs and money available.
Reading programs.
Free lunch.
Free rides
JOBS! and very few questions asked
Our mentoring is volunteer but is very well funded by local and gov’t charity money. Christmas prizes free bikes tickets to MLB games concerts trips to farms

He’s already in a special program at school with individual attention. He gets free counseling. Free meds to help him sleep. Free meds to help him wake up. And I am not exaggerating. He is literally medicating his bodily functions.

But he has an x-box, a fire stick, youtube subscription, an Iphone, a big screen right in his room (that doesn’t help him sleep).

What is lacking is virtue. Patience fidelity work ethic temperance etc…
His father is an alcoholic who drifts. I am supposed to take the place of his father.
People believe a program and a mentor take the place of a father. Won’t work.
And there is an army of kids just like him who are helpless to function in society, as long as all their base needs are provided for them without effort on their part.

 

[Sundiver]

Why can’t you make the distinction between legal and illegal immigration? If a U.S. citizen were to break into another country illegally the U.S. citizen would probably never be heard from for a while or maybe never again. There are some countries like that. We are a sovereign nation like any other nation. We have immigration laws.

 

[RCIAGraduate]

The key word is “augmentation” or temporarily in place while you gather yourself and become self sufficient.

Isn’t one issue that some people may not end up rising through the ranks like people with dead end jobs which means they may need assistance indefinitely specially if cost of living keep growing while wages may not keep pace?

 

[signit]

Why can’t you make the distinction between legal and illegal immigration? If a U.S. citizen were to break into another country illegally the U.S. citizen would probably never be heard from for a while or maybe never again. There are some countries like that. We are a sovereign nation like any other nation. We have immigration laws.

“Why can’t you” is right.

Also, there are differences between the legal and illegal immigrant populations.

Immigrants as a class are not more likely to commit crimes than the general population.

Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, are likely to commit more serious crimes, and are less likely to assimilate as they are less likely to have job skills and literacy skills.

 

[HopkinsReb]

People like me, who believe that the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things

What a ridiculous classification. The number of people who don’t “believe that the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things” is vanishingly small. The world cannot be divided into this absurd dichotomy you’ve constructed.

 

[JanetF]

And please don’t go down the road of “legal” vs. “illegal” immigrants.

For a lot of us though, that is a very important distinction. Why would you discount it?

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Why would you discount it?

Because it’s illusory. It’s an illusion. A family fleeing violence in El Salvador and seeking asylum in the US–which they have a right to do under international law and treaties the US has ratified–can be classified as “illegal” if they cross the border where there is no official border crossing. Someone overstaying their visa–which of course is what happens in MOST cases of “illegal” immigrant–in fact entered the US completely legally. So now one day they are “legal” and the next day they are “illegal”? No due process? No examination of why they overstayed? It’s simply not as clear cut as “legal” and “illegal” and pretending it is is simply wrong.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

The number of people who don’t “believe that the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things” is vanishingly small.

George Will was just interviewed on PBS. He said that in the early 1960s 77% of the population in the US believed that gov. could be trusted to do the right thing. Today that number is 17% according to Will. A 60% drop. You could imagine some reasons: Vietnam, Watergate, etc. But nevertheless, there has been a huge shift in the attitude towards government. Contrast that with France, where the brightest students aspire to a career in government, not finance and banking.

 

[Theo520]

How would you respond to someone

Why do you prioritize foreign nationals here illegally over the rights and needs of your fellow citizens?

Mexico has a lower unemployment rate than the USA, I don’t think we need to prioritize them for our jobs, education resources, and scarce welfare services.

If you think their country is broke, figure out how to fix it and I’ll support your efforts. But importing their illegal workers is not the answer for them or for the USA.

 

[FaithfulKnight]

I agree not everyone is able to rebound to a 6 figure income but that doesn’t mean you give up and become essentially a ward of the State. All situations are different, that’s what makes this a difficult topic.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Isn’t one issue that some people may not end up rising through the ranks like people with dead end jobs which means they may need assistance indefinitely specially if cost of living keep growing while wages may not keep pace?

Yes, that’s certainly an issue. Not everyone is able to “get ahead.” What if you are disabled in some way (mentally or physically)? What if you are–through no fault of your own–relatively uneducated? (A dentist friend once gave me a lecture about those good-for-nothings who didn’t get their degrees, etc. I replied that in the warehouse where I worked in grad school, most of the workers had 8-hour jobs. THEN they came to the warehouse for 5-6 hours more every day. And they were barely scraping by. Exactly when were they supposed to go to school? And exactly how lazy is someone who works 13-14 hours a day six days a week?

And take a look at the federal minimum wage adjusted for inflation:

1970 $1.00 = $6.45 in 2019 $
1974 $1.90 = $9.64
1980 $3.10 = $9.42
1990 $3.80 = $7.27
2007 $5.85 = $7.06
2009 $7.25 = $8.45

As you can see, the minimum wage peaked about 1974, at $9.64 in 2019 dollars. It’s been going down in real terms ever since. If you’re working for minimum wage, you’re earning less money almost every year in real terms. How can you “get ahead” in those circumstances?

And, in my own case, I always adjusted my actual salary to compare it to what I had earned in the past. After one “raise,” I had a friendly little chat with a much, much younger VP. After five degrees and 30 years experience, I was actually making $1,500 LESS than I had 30 years before in real terms. Her face went white.

And my father always went on and on about how much money I made–without adjusting for inflation. One day I ran the numbers through an inflation calculator. He actually earned thousands more per year in real terms than our two-income household ever did. Of course that didn’t shut him up…

 

[RCIAGraduate]

And my father always went on and on about how much money I made–without adjusting for inflation. One day I ran the numbers through an inflation calculator. He actually earned thousands more per year in real terms than our two-income household ever did. Of course that didn’t shut him up…

1. Sorry about your dad, family should be kind and supportive.
2. If I’m not wrong I understand you are an educator or teacher, a profession not known for making much monies, thank you for your service. I wish you well.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

The number of people who don’t “believe that the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things” is vanishingly small.

George Will was just interviewed on PBS. He said that in the early 1960s 77% of the population in the US believed that gov. could be trusted to do the right thing. Today that number is 17% according to Will. A 60% drop. You could imagine some reasons: Vietnam, Watergate, etc. But nevertheless, there has been a huge shift in the attitude towards government. Contrast that with France, where the brightest students aspire to a career in government, not finance and banking.

Doesn’t in any way refute my point. Will and I see eye to eye on most things, and both of us would agree that “the gov. has a responsibility to do certain things.” And, by the way, that’s not a 60% drop. It’s a 60 percentage point drop for a 78% drop.

People don’t distrust the federal government because they’re anarchists; they distrust the federal government because it is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent. And it is those things by its nature – DC is, in fact, quite distant from most of America. A Senator elected state-wide cares less about each individual voter than local reps by the nature of his or her position. And I’d be fascinated, with your loathing for Trump and the Republicans who control the Senate, to hear you defend the competence of the current federal government.

But, of course, believing that the federal government is distant, unresponsive, and incompetent is a far cry from believing that the government shouldn’t exist. But that straw man’s easier to argue against, isn’t it?

 

[Brendan_64]

How would you respond to someone who says that if you vote based on the abortion issue or the abortion issue alone then you very well risk neglecting or even throwing others under the bus

It is a matter of which issue causes most harm. In the region of 40 to 50 million children are killed each year worldwide by abortion and over 600,000 children are killed by abortion each year in the USA alone.

Is there any other cause in the whole world that causes the deaths of innocents on such a colossal scale?