Pro life or pro death?

[upant]

No matter how many times people tell me God will forgive me, I don’t think I’ll ever believe it. I murdered one of his precious children.

don’t let the devil win, he wants you to hold onto the past

have you confessed it?

if not, give it to God in the sacrament of confession,

if you have, accept his absolution.

you are forgiven, you are cleansed, not because any person says so but because God said so.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

praying for you

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Thankyou for your honesty.

 

[Hereiam]

the catechism gives a different opinion. it should be rarely used, but it is not banned outright.

a recent killer said he would kill again in prison. do we wait until he does?

What the Catechism says not that it should be used rarely, but it should only be used if safeguards cannot be put in place to prevent further killing…which can through solitary confinement and maximum security techniques available.

And, if this is done, that negates what the recent killer says.

Even worse, if we put him to death merely based on his telling us he will kill, we are assisting him in suicide, also which would go against pro-life claims.

 

[FiveLinden]

Well let’s start with definitions.For the purpose of my replay I will define ‘pro choice’ as someone who accepts as good a legal situation in which it is lawful to abort a pre-viable fetus, embryo or zygote. This person therefore does not have to agree that it is good to actually have such an abortion, or to carry one out. They seek only that those involved, including the woman, do nt face criminal sanctions for their actions. They seek then, the same legal status for abortion as for medical procedures approved by the Church such as appendectomy and those note approved by the Church such as contraception, sterilisation and (I learned today on CF) sex change operations. So the question is: could someone who is a Catholic hold such a position? I can see a number of possibilities, or at least circumstances that would make the standard Catholic position less tenable. If your country has open borders with another than allows abortion and makes it freely available (say Ireland and the UK) a law in your country will have little if any impact on the incidence of abortion. A Catholic might consider that resources that need to be devoted to upholding a pro-life law would, if diverted to communication in favour of carrying pregnancies to full term, lead to fewer abortions. Research might indicate that advocacy of the legal right to abortion leads to women considering it a morally neutral choice. In the absence of a law, women may come to their own conclusions. So I can see the possibility of the Catholic approach changing. For example in China there is obviously no point in advocating for a law change given the circumstances. But there may be a point in advocating for more support for women and children.

 

[upant]

What the Catechism says not that it should be used rarely, but it should only be used if safeguards cannot be put in place to prevent further killing…which can through solitary confinement and maximum security techniques available.

nope, it says are very rare, if not practically non-existent.

this is not an outright ban, there is a chance and in many parts of the world a necessity.

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”

And, if this is done, that negates what the recent killer says.

not true. the man still comes into contact with guards and other people.

Even worse, if we put him to death merely based on his telling us he will kill, we are assisting him in suicide, also which would go against pro-life claims.

nope, we are following the rules of ccc 2267

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings
I was always against abortion. I was for Capitol punishment. I was having a debate w someone who was PROCHOICE. I said,”Would Jesus perform an abortion? NO! But then I said,”Would Jesus pull the switch?” NO. The Bishops are against the death penalty. OOPS! Pro life from beginning till end.
Dear God can we ever protect kids so we don’t have criminals. Pls turn hearts to Your heart about life.
In Christ’s Love
Tweedlealice

 

[upant]

I said,”Eould Jesus pull the switch?” NO

Jesus will judge us all.
many will be cast into the lake of fire for their sins

the person committing the crime is the responsible party when they are put to death

can we ever protect kids so we don’t have criminals.

no, evil will be with us until Jesus returns. otherwise he would not need to return if we could do it ourselves.

 

[tweedlealice]

Blessings,
I guess I should have worded, keeping kids safe sentence, differently.
The problems that make bad ppl can start in the DNA. It can mushroom in dysfunctional families.
If society kept a handle on poverty, unstable neighborhoods, students in school, maybe we could head “bad” off at the pass??
Like how to stop school shootings: it starts in the home. Things that hurt the kid. Then, school w bullying. All that takes is introducing unique kids to the class personally. Let his parents and him share their situation. Bring cupcakes for kids. They could like the unusual kid.
After Columbine, one would think no one would bully anymore. If they did, they’d be reported and counseled. That went real well!!
ST.Michael, the Archangel,defend us in battle.
Be our protection from the snares of the devil
Lord, we repeat our mistakes. Our alertness for cues gets dim. Bad things won’t happen in my world. Let our light shine for You
In Jesus name
Amen

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

An elderly Methodist woman once told me she’s pro-choice because she “wants children raised in the BEST possible circumstances.”

Uhm, we all want that.
But nobody will ever be raised under the best possible circumstances because we all get imperfect health and parents and neighborhoods and societal influences, et cetera …

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I will remember you in my prayers today

Hugs!

 

[Monica83]

Right. I completely agree. A child being poor or in a less than ideal situation isn’t a reason to kill them.

 

[steve-b]

How can someone call themselves Catholic and then be pro choice? I have a lady friend that says she’s against abortion but is pro choice because she doesn’t think the law should be involved. Huh?

It’s like the following statement, said in many different ways
"I wouldn’t do that myself, but can’t stand in the way if you want to do it."

In effect it breaks both the 2 great commandments

1. Love the lord your God with all you heart mind and soul
2. love your neighbor as yourself

One can’t love their neighbor and vote in an election for a pro choice candidate. Neither can they then say they love God with their whole heat mind and soul. Their contradiction in commandment 2, violates then both commandments.

 

[Credence]

Lyllie, your post inspired me to create an account. I had been lurking on this forum for some time, but your experience really resonated with me.

I had drifted away from my faith for much of my adult life, thinking I could replace the need for faith my simply living a principled life. How wrong I turned out to be (for many reasons).

After 12 years of marriage, we found out my wife was pregnant. That was simply not in the plan. We used her health and age (35) as an excuse to call it a high risk pregnancy and we had an abortion. I am a veteran of two wars, and the pain and suffering that I experienced from my experiences in combat can’t even begin to approach the agony I felt after it was done. I will always be tormented by that horrific decision. Who was this poor soul that never got a chance to come into this world? How many wonderful experiences have I robbed them of through my own selfishness? How many lives would have been touched by this person? I would honestly be willing to trade my life if it meant that baby had a second chance, but I’ll never have the opportunity to do that.

In the end, God made his will very clear to me when not 2 months later, she was pregnant again. Keep in mind, we had been married for 12 years with no such instances, and she was on contraceptive at the time. Despite not yet having returned to the faith, I knew God’s will when I saw it, and of course we welcomed our perfect angel of a daughter into this world.

A few months later, I received absolution of my sins, and am working to live a faith-driven life, but I wanted to share my story along with Lyllie in the off chance it will influence someone out there to embrace a pro-life position on this issue.

Abortion is a tragedy far greater than war- I’ve seen both, and only the horrors of one keep me up at night.

 

[Maximilian75]

At least those who die in war knew, for the most part, that it could happen…

 

[Credence]

For the combatants, I definitely agree. Unfortunately I’ve been witness to more than my share of civilian casualties (children included) who should never have been subjected to horrors of war to begin with. My experiences as an adult have given me enough to reflect on to last a few lifetimes to say the least.

The least I can do now is to join our church leaders and try to advocate for those without a voice on this issue. I have always been ambivalent on abortion as it had no bearing on my life (do you see the problem with thinking you can get by simply living as a good person without faith?!), and I understand the many reasons people advocate for the “pro-choice” side of the debate, but I have lived through the experience and know better than most how horrible that “choice” is.

May God have mercy on the souls of those who view this issue as simply a matter of choice.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I will remember you and your dear family in my prayers, too.
ray:t2:

 

[upant]

but I have lived through the experience and know better than most how horrible that “choice” is.

thank you for sharing your story, i will also keep your family in my prayers