Pro-life people hate women?

[vera_dicere]

Well, at least 1/3 of American women have had at least one abortion. That’s a pretty significant number.

And most of those abortions aren’t even life or death situations.

That’s exactly the point! Women don’t just wake up one morning, (well, most women) and decide, “You know what, I really want those Gucci shoes, but I wont be able to afford them if I carry this pregnancy to term, I’ll kill my baby and go shopping! What a day that will be!!”

Women abort because there’s no support mechanisms in place for them. There’s rubbish laws protecting women in the work place, protecting their career from taking a break to have a child. Feminists for Life did a study and found pregnant university students are bombarded with how to get abortions, but are not given teh support they need to be a mum and study. Women who are unemployed have an even harder time with pregnancy assistance. Then you have teens, women who are nearing the end of their child bearing years, women who are not fiscally stable, women who are pregnant from one night stands and have no ability in their lives to care for a child. All the while there’s not a lot of mention about adoption.

The Pro-Lifers are the majority force behind trying to get these women assistance. Sure, the Republican party, which are traditionally pro-life are also quite anti-social welfare reforms.

Every Pro-Lifer needs to put its money where its mouth is, so to speak, if we want to stop women rushing to teh local Unplanned Parenthood we need to ensure they dont’ have reason too. We need to vote for candiates who will support the pregnant woman. Yes, it will cost more in the short term for women to have these children, but if people are truly, truly pro-life, then they will happily bare an increase in taxes if it means a decrease in the pile of dead children Unplanned Parenthood are building each year.

As for women not willing to die for their unborn, I’d wager its all about an “out of sight, out of mind” mentality, but I dont’ think these women are helped much by their situations, I’ve met a lot of women who have aborted, and have said to me if they were in the same situation again they’d abort, but they said they wish they didn’t have to. Women who were single, had no money, had other children, all the usual reasons. I was told a horror story by a young student nurse who witnessed a woman with three other children have an abortion, not because she wanted to, she wanted that child badly, but because she felt she had no choice. The moment she got off the table, she collasped to the floor in a sobbing heap screaming about how she’d murdered her child and she was so, so sorry.

What the F kind of choice is that?

 

[vera_dicere]

Yes. I do not believe it’s that high.

No, it probably is that high. There’s been 52 million abortions.

(I went and had a look)

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

35% of women have aborted. That’s a little over a 1/3rd.

This, however, this makes me very angry:

• Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic.3]

I think we need to be utterly ashamed of these numbers.

 

[vera_dicere]

Amazing isn’t it. How less than one percent of abortions are the biggest reasons that a brainwashed society likes to throw in the abortion debate the most.

Its how the pro-abortion movement works, through lies, falsehoods, poor science and exaggerations. You only need to read Dr. Bernard Nathanson’s stuff, a former abortionist who assisted in achieving Roe, who has acknowledged he’s performed at least 60,000 abortions, he’s said all of their tactics to get Roe established were based on lies.

 

[vera_dicere]

Well, I think its sad people are selfish and unloving. Are you seriously saying parents won’t die for their children. Are you saying parents won’t give up comfort for the life of their child. I think its sad that people don’t care. You said there is a long jump from unwillingness to not caring. It not that people are unwilling, its that they don’t care. The contempt for life shows this. If this isn’t sad, I don’t know what is.

Humans are supposed to be higher up the intellectual food chain than animals. I for one cannot believe that we’re not willing, deep down, to sacrifice for our children. I think society has made it “silly” and “uncool” to do so. Look at the scorn women get who are pregnant and have a cancer diganosis and still refuse to abort.

I lived on a farm as a child. One day some stray dogs came and attacked our sheep. In the corner of the paddock was a ewe who’d be torn to shreds, she was sitting, dead, against the fence, I wont’ get into too much detail, but will say her death would have been incredibly painful and drawn out. The thing was, she could have escaped, she could have tried to run. When we picked her corpse up (it was still warm, she’d died within the last hour), we found two, very much alive, lambs underneath her.

One of those lambs weren’t even her’s.

She sat there, against the fence, taking one heck of a mauling from at least three dogs, for those lambs. She could have escaped and left the lambs to the dogs.

I really hope if a sheep can die for a lamb that’s not even her’s, that deep down, humans have at least teh decency to sacrifice a little fiscal comfort for their own child.

 

[Rence]

Women abort because there’s no support mechanisms in place for them. There’s rubbish laws protecting women in the work place, protecting their career from taking a break to have a child. Feminists for Life did a study and found pregnant university students are bombarded with how to get abortions, but are not given teh support they need to be a mum and study. Women who are unemployed have an even harder time with pregnancy assistance. Then you have teens, women who are nearing the end of their child bearing years, women who are not fiscally stable, women who are pregnant from one night stands and have no ability in their lives to care for a child. All the while there’s not a lot of mention about adoption.

All that is SO true. There really needs to be a system in place that communicates resources to pregnant women, both for before her birth and AFTER. Because they’re also thinking about how they’re going to support themselves and their baby after birth. There are good resources out there, but it’s amazing how little women know about them.

There is a lot of obvious help to pay for prenatal care, the cost of birth, and I think for some time after birth. It’s the after birth care that’s harder for women to find. It’s more of a challenge and that’s a shame. They need to know about these resources so they don’t feel so helpless and scared, so that they have the tools that enable them to make decisions that are right for them.

Every Pro-Lifer needs to put its money where its mouth is, so to speak, if we want to stop women rushing to teh local Unplanned Parenthood we need to ensure they dont’ have reason too. We need to vote for candiates who will support the pregnant woman. Yes, it will cost more in the short term for women to have these children, but if people are truly, truly pro-life, then they will happily bare an increase in taxes if it means a decrease in the pile of dead children Unplanned Parenthood are building each year.

Support of women also means ensuring their education, not just math and science, but about their own physiology. Something needs to be done to insure NFP is also included in the educational part of PPP so that they are not allowed to only recommend ABCs. Something needs to be done to ensure women are educated about their resources, all of the resources available to them.

As for women not willing to die for their unborn, I’d wager its all about an “out of sight, out of mind” mentality,

I wonder if it’s an age and experience issue. While abortion was never an option for me as I was growing up, and while I never truly was fond of children when growing up, the older I get the more I understand the love between a mother and child. I’m not sure some people can relate to the women who give their lives for their children, unless they understand the love a mother has for a child. I’m not sure it computes. It’s amazing to see a metamorphasis of sorts when a women who was never really fond of children and actually never wanted anything to do with them, changes into a protective lioness when she has her own That’s actually quite interesting to watch.

but I dont’ think these women are helped much by their situations, I’ve met a lot of women who have aborted, and have said to me if they were in the same situation again they’d abort, but they said they wish they didn’t have to. Women who were single, had no money, had other children, all the usual reasons. I was told a horror story by a young student nurse who witnessed a woman with three other children have an abortion, not because she wanted to, she wanted that child badly, but because she felt she had no choice. The moment she got off the table, she collasped to the floor in a sobbing heap screaming about how she’d murdered her child and she was so, so sorry. What the F kind of choice is that?

That’s not a choice. And that woman epitomizes the statistics to which is referred when we hear about abortion causing severe emotional and psychological damage to women. That woman will suffer for her poor choice, and while some people might be eager to condemn her, I’m not convinced this woman had a choice. Choice involves knowledge of your options and lack of coersion. A woman who does not want an abortion should never ever feel like she has to because she has no other choice.

 

[hawkeye]

I’m pro-life because I’m anti-hell, which is where people who don’t repent of this heinous crime may one day call home, 24/7. not nice.

 

[edwest2]

I don’t think the pro-life movement would be satisfied with the abolition of abortion except in the cases of rape or danger to the woman’s life. I could be mistaken though, since it’s such a small and insignificant percentage of abortions being done. I still think they would pursue aboltion of all abortions without exception.

And about birth control: There are those on this forum who even want birth control pills to be abolished along with abortion. I don’t think they would be satisfied with the abolition of abortion except for the cases of rape or danger to the woman’s life. I’d wager that they would the continue to pursue abolition of abortion in all cases and move on towards abolition of contraceptives as well.

I don’t understand what points you are making here.

Before 1960, there was no birth control pill. That’s when the FDA approved it.

Who decides when people have sex? The government? Pro-lifers? Who makes that decision?

Don’t you think it would be a worthwhile goal to eliminate convenience abortions?

In 1972, I watched on TV as some women pleaded, “Please. Please have compassion on these poor young women who are dying from back-alley abortions.” It was marketed as to be used “only in cases of emergency” like rape and incest or when the mother’s life was in danger. That’s right – marketed. But what happened? In my neighborhood in the late 1970s, a little girl told my mother. “Oh, my mom was going to have a little brother or little sister, but she’s not going to have one now.” I doubt this little girl understood what her mom had done.

God bless,
Ed

---

Choose Jesus.

 

[Rence]

I don’t understand what points you are making here.

Nothing other than what was said in the post. Nothing between the lines. Just an observation.

Who decides when people have sex? The government? Pro-lifers? Who makes that decision?

People are the only ones that can make that decision for themselves.

Don’t you think it would be a worthwhile goal to eliminate convenience abortions?

Yes.

 

[flyingfish]

Well, I think its sad people are selfish and unloving. Are you seriously saying parents won’t die for their children. Are you saying parents won’t give up comfort for the life of their child. I think its sad that people don’t care. You said there is a long jump from unwillingness to not caring. It not that people are unwilling, its that they don’t care. The contempt for life shows this. If this isn’t sad, I don’t know what is.

Children is a broad term, I’m talking specifically about newborns since someone else took the conversation there. I don’t believe that most people would give their life for a newborn for reasons I outlined earlier.

Every Pro-Lifer needs to put its money where its mouth is, so to speak, if we want to stop women rushing to teh local Unplanned Parenthood we need to ensure they dont’ have reason too.

I agree with this, making it easy for women to have babies would certainly decrease abortions. Telling them abortion is immoral is unlikely to make a difference.

 

[vera_dicere]

All that is SO true. There really needs to be a system in place that communicates resources to pregnant women, both for before her birth and AFTER.

Abso-foetus-loutely! Its what really bothers me about how some pro-lifers act, they seem to think the foetus suddenly just dissappears at birth or is born with a diploma and a sack of money. We need to help the mother and child. The child’s needs dont’ stop once its out of the womb. Some of these mothers may need support for at least 18 years. We have to acknowledge that.

Because the reality is, as much as pro-lifers don’t like to hear it, is abortion is, in most cases, fiscally prudent. And the value of an individual’s life should not be based on how much it costs to raise and educate them.

There is a lot of obvious help to pay for prenatal care, the cost of birth, and I think for some time after birth. It’s the after birth care that’s harder for women to find. It’s more of a challenge and that’s a shame. They need to know about these resources so they don’t feel so helpless and scared, so that they have the tools that enable them to make decisions that are right for them.

I think the pro-life movement really needs to branch out, as much as we like to demonise them, Planned Parenthood is usually the first port of call for women in crisis with an unplanned pregnancy. I think if PP really cared about choice they’d get on board with pro-life groups and help make it known to women what is out there for them if they wish to keep their children.

We all hear stories of ex-abortion industry workers and exposes on PP about how the staff are telling women horror stories about the costs of raising a kid and how it will ruin their lives, but honestly, I cannot beleive all abortion workers in all abortion clinics are that callous and money driven as to con a woman into abortion. A multi-organisation approach is needed.

Support of women also means ensuring their education, not just math and science, but about their own physiology. Something needs to be done to insure NFP is also included in the educational part of PPP so that they are not allowed to only recommend ABCs. Something needs to be done to ensure women are educated about their resources, all of the resources available to them.

Knowledge is power, absolutely. Teens need to be educated about more then just “here’s a condom, here’s a banana, figure it out” or “don’t do it, ya little strumpets”. Teens are so much more savvy then they were 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. They have a world of knowledge at their fingertips, its not that hard for them to find out about condoms or abortions or abstience, and sometimes, that ends up a bit of information overload, especially when they dont’ have a context for that knowledge.

They need to be sat down in schools and told “this is what pregnancy will do to your body, this is what it will cost, this is the reality of finding assistance for your education post baby”, “this is what abortion does to you, this is foetal development, there is a train of thought that abortion causes mental health problems”, “these are the risks of STDs, these are pictuers of STDS, this is what it will do to your fertility”.

They are more than capable of dealing with oozing images of gential pimples.

A woman who does not want an abortion should never ever feel like she has to because she has no other choice.

This is the problem, you’d think medical professions in the abortion industry shoudl be able to pick up whether or not a woman wants an abortion or just wants help to have her child.

What horrified me about this story, is in NZL, you have to see a counsellor who’s supposed to go over all your options and where you can get fiscal help. And honestly, we have state funded health care, including pre-natal and post natal care. Child medical care is free until theyr’e 5 and then incredibly cheap thereafter.

What her case showed me, is that our so called “pro-woman, pro-choice” abortion industry failed this woman, and failed her big time.

That’s why i really think a cross organisational co-operation is needed. Have the woman see a counsellor who has nothing to do with an abortion clinic, and perhaps nothign to do with a pro-life centre. The reality is, as it stands, abortion clinics make their money from abortions, if a woman walks out the door to adopt the child, or keep teh child, that’s 400$ walking out the door.

Both sides have failed women. Perhaps if we get off our high horses we can save women and save children.

 

[Jordan9]

8 weeks after conception, the baby has a brain.

Life is life. Degree of intellect does not determine life.

Your life is no more important than mine.

Amen!

“Unless we recognise that each individual is irrepeatable and valuable by virtue of simply being conceived human, we cannot begin to talk about human rights. This includes the right to be born, as all of us have enjoyed. True justice should be for each human being, visible and invisible, young and old, disabled and able, to enjoy fully their right to life. The accidental attributes that we acquire such as colour, sex intelligence, economic circumstances, physical or mental disability should not be used as an excuse to deprive a person of life.” - Dr. Margaret Ogola

 

[Jordan9]

8 weeks after conception, the baby has a brain.

Life is life. Degree of intellect does not determine life.

Your life is no more important than mine.

Amen!

“Unless we recognise that each individual is irrepeatable and valuable by virtue of simply being conceived human, we cannot begin to talk about human rights. This includes the right to be born, as all of us have enjoyed. True justice should be for each human being, visible and invisible, young and old, disabled and able, to enjoy fully their right to life. The accidental attributes that we acquire such as colour, sex, intelligence, economic circumstances, physical or mental disability should not be used as an excuse to deprive a person of life.” - Dr. Margaret Ogola

 

[Newbie2]

No, it probably is that high. There’s been 52 million abortions.

(I went and had a look)

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

35% of women have aborted. That’s a little over a 1/3rd.

This, however, this makes me very angry:

• Forty-three percent of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 27% as Catholic.3]

I think we need to be utterly ashamed of these numbers.

“Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion” is what the report says.

How can 35% of all women have aborted if only 22% of all pregnancies end in abortion?

 

[kage_ar]

Because the reality is, as much as pro-lifers don’t like to hear it, is abortion is, in most cases, fiscally prudent. And the value of an individual’s life should not be based on how much it costs to raise and educate them.

Abortion costs $700, is not covered (yet) by federal funds.

Maternity care, post natal care for baby and mom are free on Medicaid.

Putting the child up for adoption further easies the mother’s burden by paying for her living expenses during the pregnancy.

Tell me, how is abortion more fiscally prudent?

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

“Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion” is what the report says.

How can 35% of all women have aborted if only 22% of all pregnancies end in abortion?

I’m also confused by that statistic. It doesn’t seem to take into account repeat abortions.

 

[edwest2]

Abso-foetus-loutely! Its what really bothers me about how some pro-lifers act, they seem to think the foetus suddenly just dissappears at birth or is born with a diploma and a sack of money. We need to help the mother and child. The child’s needs dont’ stop once its out of the womb. Some of these mothers may need support for at least 18 years. We have to acknowledge that.

Because the reality is, as much as pro-lifers don’t like to hear it, is abortion is, in most cases, fiscally prudent. And the value of an individual’s life should not be based on how much it costs to raise and educate them.

I think the pro-life movement really needs to branch out, as much as we like to demonise them, Planned Parenthood is usually the first port of call for women in crisis with an unplanned pregnancy. I think if PP really cared about choice they’d get on board with pro-life groups and help make it known to women what is out there for them if they wish to keep their children.

We all hear stories of ex-abortion industry workers and exposes on PP about how the staff are telling women horror stories about the costs of raising a kid and how it will ruin their lives, but honestly, I cannot beleive all abortion workers in all abortion clinics are that callous and money driven as to con a woman into abortion. A multi-organisation approach is needed.

Knowledge is power, absolutely. Teens need to be educated about more then just “here’s a condom, here’s a banana, figure it out” or “don’t do it, ya little strumpets”. Teens are so much more savvy then they were 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. They have a world of knowledge at their fingertips, its not that hard for them to find out about condoms or abortions or abstience, and sometimes, that ends up a bit of information overload, especially when they dont’ have a context for that knowledge.

They need to be sat down in schools and told “this is what pregnancy will do to your body, this is what it will cost, this is the reality of finding assistance for your education post baby”, “this is what abortion does to you, this is foetal development, there is a train of thought that abortion causes mental health problems”, “these are the risks of STDs, these are pictuers of STDS, this is what it will do to your fertility”.

They are more than capable of dealing with oozing images of gential pimples.

This is the problem, you’d think medical professions in the abortion industry shoudl be able to pick up whether or not a woman wants an abortion or just wants help to have her child.

What horrified me about this story, is in NZL, you have to see a counsellor who’s supposed to go over all your options and where you can get fiscal help. And honestly, we have state funded health care, including pre-natal and post natal care. Child medical care is free until theyr’e 5 and then incredibly cheap thereafter.

What her case showed me, is that our so called “pro-woman, pro-choice” abortion industry failed this woman, and failed her big time.

That’s why i really think a cross organisational co-operation is needed. Have the woman see a counsellor who has nothing to do with an abortion clinic, and perhaps nothign to do with a pro-life centre. The reality is, as it stands, abortion clinics make their money from abortions, if a woman walks out the door to adopt the child, or keep teh child, that’s 400$ walking out the door.

Both sides have failed women. Perhaps if we get off our high horses we can save women and save children.

First of all, teens are just as stupid as they’ve ever been. We do not “live in the future.” If anything, the internet is providing way too many teens with really bad images and bad invitations to just have sex. TV isn’t much better. Love has been translated to mean sexual activity.

And where’s the man? Anybody? She didn’t get pregnant by herself. How about making the man partly responsible for making the woman pregnant, or do we automatically assume that he gets off free because he’s not having the baby?

Every new generation is born into the world without knowledge. Every child needs to be taught until he or she is able to make it in the outside world. Every generation. Access to knowledge means very little if almost every actress is sleeping around or getting divorced or deciding to have an “open” marriage. If parents don’t raise their kids, their friends will or the TV or the internet. Every child is born uneducated.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Abortion costs $700, is not covered (yet) by federal funds.

Maternity care, post natal care for baby and mom are free on Medicaid.

Putting the child up for adoption further easies the mother’s burden by paying for her living expenses during the pregnancy.

Tell me, how is abortion more fiscally prudent?

Unfortunately, it goes like this. The poor unwed mother has a child that will likely not get a complete education, be driven to a life of crime and end up in prison. The child will be a burden on police and the criminal justice system, not to mention the harm to individuals he may cause along the way.

nationalcenter.org/P21NVGardnerBennett1005.html

God bless,
Ed

 

[Rence]

Unfortunately, it goes like this. The poor unwed mother has a child that will likely not get a complete education, be driven to a life of crime and end up in prison. The child will be a burden on police and the criminal justice system, not to mention the harm to individuals he may cause along the way.
nationalcenter.org/P21NVGardnerBennett1005.html
God bless,
Ed

The public in general is also bitterly opposed to helping to pay for someone else’s kids. I can’t even count the number of times that I’ve heard people say they weren’t paying for other people’s kids. And really, can you blame them? Kids require food, clothing, school supplies, shoes, a roof over their head, etc. Yes, women can get food stamps, I believe until their child is 5 years old, after which, he gets free lunches at school. Even so, food stamps weren’t meant to pay for everything, you still have to supplement. After food stamps are discontinued in lue of free school lunches, you still have to buy the other meals, and meals for mom.

Yes, you can buy a lot from Goodwill, but you have to earn enough money to spend at Goodwill. Single moms still have to pay for rent, electricity, gas (depending on where they live), water, mortgage/rent/assessments.

Depending on the single mom in question, they will have various types needs, and will have a varying capacity to provide for those needs, and will need various sources to help out. A 30 year old, well educated, well employed woman will pull it off a lot better than a teenager, or a 25 year old working at starbucks and going to school. Often these women are faced with these burdens alone.

Having babies is WAY more expensive than just having an abortion. Abortion only costs a couple hundred to several hundred, depending on how far along the woman is. It doesn’t just end with getting public aid for prenatal care, delivery costs and a few days of post delivery care. What about the rest? The woman’s needs don’t end when she delivers her baby.

How is this to be resolved? There are a LOT of legal and ethical issues to consider regarding this whole picture. It’s not going to be simple to fix.

 

[Brendan]

“Twenty-two percent of all pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion” is what the report says.

How can 35% of all women have aborted if only 22% of all pregnancies end in abortion?

Because a woman can become pregnant more than once in her life.

Let’s say we have 100 women. If we determine that 35 of them have had an abortion, that is 35%.

But out of those women, 50 had been pregnant more than once, so we have a have a total of 150 pregnancies. Since 35 of that 150 pregnancies ended in abortion, that is 22% (ish)

 

[edwest2]

Can we stop focusing on the woman for a moment? Where is the guy? Isn’t he responsible? And if the woman allowed him to have sex with her, what does that mean? Nothing?

In the late 1960s, angry people who wanted to have sex with anybody kept saying, “Leave me alone. I’m a responsible adult! I’ll do what I want !!!” So, as long as you were an adult and both parties consented – all was OK.

That’s right. Freedom became divorced from responsibility.

Consent became the magic word that made any sexual activity perfectly OK.

It’s not complicated. Self control is one answer. 100% guaranteed Zero unwanted babies and Zero STDs. 100%, and Guaranteed. No birth control pill or device is 100% guaranteed.

God bless,
Ed