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beafedor
Guest
Brothers and sisters, I do not believe that those of you who are pro abortion are bad persons. You probably support abortion with your heart thinking that women need abortion because it was “sold” to you as a human right. I on the other hand think that you are misinformed and my hope is to show you why women are having abortions and what it does to them.
Here is an email that I just received this morning:
"Jennifer also tells a story of the horrifying truth about abortion, the operation that its supporters call a "safe, legal medical procedure.“Two prayer vigil participants saw a woman leave the clinic, crying hysterically. She said she was 18 weeks pregnant – and the abortionist had given her baby a lethal injection to end the child’s life. **She had apparently known very little about the actual procedure, only that she had a “choice” that would permit her to become un-pregnant. **She cried that God would never forgive her for what she had done. Volunteers suggested going to the emergency room to see if the baby could be saved. Sadly, it was too late. She would have to return to the clinic the next day to have the dead child removed from her womb. The woman told the volunteers that she wanted to stand on the sidewalk to warn the clinic’s clients about what abortion really is. But please pray that she recognizes her own need for healing and spiritual renewal at this most challenging time in her life.” (40 days for life update from David Bereit) 40daysforlife.com/blog/?p=480
Here is an email that I just received this morning:
"Jennifer also tells a story of the horrifying truth about abortion, the operation that its supporters call a "safe, legal medical procedure.“Two prayer vigil participants saw a woman leave the clinic, crying hysterically. She said she was 18 weeks pregnant – and the abortionist had given her baby a lethal injection to end the child’s life. **She had apparently known very little about the actual procedure, only that she had a “choice” that would permit her to become un-pregnant. **She cried that God would never forgive her for what she had done. Volunteers suggested going to the emergency room to see if the baby could be saved. Sadly, it was too late. She would have to return to the clinic the next day to have the dead child removed from her womb. The woman told the volunteers that she wanted to stand on the sidewalk to warn the clinic’s clients about what abortion really is. But please pray that she recognizes her own need for healing and spiritual renewal at this most challenging time in her life.” (40 days for life update from David Bereit) 40daysforlife.com/blog/?p=480
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Worthy5
Guest
No one here is say abortion is not horrible. Govt should be involved in providing better support for this person. So what is your point? Why do you feel the need to keep diverting the issue–which is the best means govt can use to prevent abortion while keep govt in its proper scope of power— to the horror of abortion.
Well having said that it is good to keep that out there so the move toward more regulation can take place. But can you not recognize that criminalizing all abortions is not the way to go from a practical matter as well as a govt power issue? Or rather, at least can you see how it is reasonable to hold that position, even if you disagree with it. Once you get there, then both sides can start toward compromises that can make abortion rare.
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beafedor
Guest
Reply to Jane Grey (sorry don’t know how to use the quote button)
Thanks for your reply Jane. My hope is that I can help you to see abortion for what it is and help you decide.
You said “What I think would help in this debate is for either side to stop thinking of the other as the ‘enemy’. Good people make bad decisions, think of it that way if you want.”
Amen to that!
You said “women are perfectly capable of knowing fully what they are getting into when they have an abortion.”
I wish it were that simple but, not so. There is a lot of misinformation out here. Read my previous 40 days for life post.
“However there are many others who are not quite so unfortunate. What about not so poor women who do not regret their abortions? I think it would help to acknowledge that they exist.”
Not so. You are right that wealthy, married women are also having abortions. It’s not just a poor women issue. But when it comes to post abortion trauma, the grief, and shame are the same for all of us, no matter what the reason to abort and our social position are.
“I dont think it helpful to label them as ‘selfish’ and murderers. My point is everyone has a story and while a complicated situation does not justify murder, it is progress when you can bond with someone from the other side and understand where they come from. Maybe this can help change someone’s position, but even not, is’nt it less emotionally exhausting not to think the other side are baby-haters or women-haters?”
Amen! I don’t call women who abort murderers, sinners or selfish. I don’t think they should be prosecuted and imprisoned either. I can’t tell you how many stories I have heard about the pressure to abort, the lies of the doctors about the procedure and the side effects. Let’s not forget that abortion is a business and some people are making money. They don’t want women like me to speak up and tell the truth. They (the health care providers) know better. They know when life begins, they know what they are doing. They lie to people and a lot of women are very naive about abortion; all that they want is a way out of a difficult situation. But abortion is not the answer.
I’m pro-life, pro-woman and pro-child. I am a feminist and I’m here to say: A pregnant woman needs support, not abortion.
Thanks for your reply Jane. My hope is that I can help you to see abortion for what it is and help you decide.
You said “What I think would help in this debate is for either side to stop thinking of the other as the ‘enemy’. Good people make bad decisions, think of it that way if you want.”
Amen to that!
You said “women are perfectly capable of knowing fully what they are getting into when they have an abortion.”
I wish it were that simple but, not so. There is a lot of misinformation out here. Read my previous 40 days for life post.
“However there are many others who are not quite so unfortunate. What about not so poor women who do not regret their abortions? I think it would help to acknowledge that they exist.”
Not so. You are right that wealthy, married women are also having abortions. It’s not just a poor women issue. But when it comes to post abortion trauma, the grief, and shame are the same for all of us, no matter what the reason to abort and our social position are.
“I dont think it helpful to label them as ‘selfish’ and murderers. My point is everyone has a story and while a complicated situation does not justify murder, it is progress when you can bond with someone from the other side and understand where they come from. Maybe this can help change someone’s position, but even not, is’nt it less emotionally exhausting not to think the other side are baby-haters or women-haters?”
Amen! I don’t call women who abort murderers, sinners or selfish. I don’t think they should be prosecuted and imprisoned either. I can’t tell you how many stories I have heard about the pressure to abort, the lies of the doctors about the procedure and the side effects. Let’s not forget that abortion is a business and some people are making money. They don’t want women like me to speak up and tell the truth. They (the health care providers) know better. They know when life begins, they know what they are doing. They lie to people and a lot of women are very naive about abortion; all that they want is a way out of a difficult situation. But abortion is not the answer.
I’m pro-life, pro-woman and pro-child. I am a feminist and I’m here to say: A pregnant woman needs support, not abortion.
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beafedor
Guest
answer to Worthy5
That’s a very interesting answer Worthy5.
What is my point, you ask? simple: showing you guys, especially those who are not sure on which side they are, that there is no such a thing as the freedom to choose and therefore we should work to make abortion not only rare, but also unnecessary and unthinkable. A society that promotes abortion as a necessity underestimates women. When I’m sharing real abortion stories, I’m not diverting. Maybe I’m the most qualified person to talk about abortion here because I’ve had 2 myself.
So we agree that abortion is horrible, that we need holistic solutions for women and their children. Just to make sure, when you say “criminalizing all abortions is not the way”, I believe that criminalizing women is not the way. But if Roe v. Wade was overturned, it would be appropriate to prosecute health care professionals who would perform illegal abortions. This wouldn’t apply to abortions performed under Roe v. Wade.
I do not agree with making compromises to make abortion rare as it means making abortion rare but available. You are either for or against abortion. Well you are obviously pro abortion otherwise you wouldn’t want to make compromises. But why do you want to make available something that is in your own words “horrible”? Why do you think that women need abortion for?
That’s a very interesting answer Worthy5.
What is my point, you ask? simple: showing you guys, especially those who are not sure on which side they are, that there is no such a thing as the freedom to choose and therefore we should work to make abortion not only rare, but also unnecessary and unthinkable. A society that promotes abortion as a necessity underestimates women. When I’m sharing real abortion stories, I’m not diverting. Maybe I’m the most qualified person to talk about abortion here because I’ve had 2 myself.
So we agree that abortion is horrible, that we need holistic solutions for women and their children. Just to make sure, when you say “criminalizing all abortions is not the way”, I believe that criminalizing women is not the way. But if Roe v. Wade was overturned, it would be appropriate to prosecute health care professionals who would perform illegal abortions. This wouldn’t apply to abortions performed under Roe v. Wade.
I do not agree with making compromises to make abortion rare as it means making abortion rare but available. You are either for or against abortion. Well you are obviously pro abortion otherwise you wouldn’t want to make compromises. But why do you want to make available something that is in your own words “horrible”? Why do you think that women need abortion for?
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Worthy5
Guest
No freedom to choose? So what are you suggesting that Govt should make every decision in this society? Are you saying we do not live in a free country or that our nation was not founded to be a free country? Or Are you saying that circumstances always overwhelms the individual so govt coercion and control is the only answer to our problems?
No disagreement there, in fact that is what I just said so why do you then below criticize it?
No argument there.
You are when that is all you focus on as oppose to what is the best means for Govt to combat the problem. Excess play on emotions leads to support for unsafe and unrealistic expansion of Govt power.
.
Really? So none of the rest of us can think critically on this issue. Sounds like rule by oligarchy… … …Okay sorry, but come on we all cannot participate in this.
I agree on early term cases. But why do you punish the doctor only?
If Roe v Wade is overturn it would turn the issue back to the states to determine what abortions would or would not be prosecuted. It would still be a individual state matter.
Does that not contradict what you said above?
The issue is not whether you are for or against abortion. It does not matter, from a public policy view, whether an individual is for or against it personally----that is their view. The issue is what is the role of govt to attempt to protect the life of the unborn given the intrinsic role the woman has in the process. Especially the role of govt in a country that was founded on the notion of limited govt. Because govt is the strongest force in society, and that when it becomes too powerful, it actually threatens individual freedom and rights the most.
I do not think they need abortions. But I am not so sure to think my morality should be a justification to support the expansive power of govt to be inserted into every situation that involves this issue.
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fix
Guest
Lets sum up. Your position seems to be an unborn child is “different” than a two year old in some way that allows the governemnt to allow legalized killing. To have a law that protects life is to violate your notion of limited government. Further, that other avenues to help foster a culture of life exist is sufficient to deny legal protection and the cost of such a law is of more importance than protecting life.
Basically, the baby is of less value than other persons in your ideology. I get it.
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fix
Guest
I offer more from the previous link:
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mrearly2
Guest
I like to say that everyone is “pro-choice”, as in, we all are given free will and we may choose between good and evil.
The pro-death advocates must view the unborn baby as a mere mass of tissue, and discount its human nature. They harden their hearts and deaden their consciences against that which they view as a “problem.” One must ask, how can an unborn baby be a problem, when they tried (in most cases) to procreate, by going through the motions? Of course, children are supposed to be the fruit of the love between a husband and wife, not the product of lust.
Also, they like to fall back on the worn-out response that, the “right” to kill the unborn baby is protected under the law, by a “right to privacy.” That so-called right to privacy was invented just for that Supreme Court ruling, and has no basis in law.
The pro-death advocates must view the unborn baby as a mere mass of tissue, and discount its human nature. They harden their hearts and deaden their consciences against that which they view as a “problem.” One must ask, how can an unborn baby be a problem, when they tried (in most cases) to procreate, by going through the motions? Of course, children are supposed to be the fruit of the love between a husband and wife, not the product of lust.
Also, they like to fall back on the worn-out response that, the “right” to kill the unborn baby is protected under the law, by a “right to privacy.” That so-called right to privacy was invented just for that Supreme Court ruling, and has no basis in law.
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Christopher68
Guest
Worthy5,
There are some on this thread and in this forum who will never understand the points you are trying to make. They need to read one of the better books on government, such as the 1996 book Why Government Doesn’t Work by the late Harry Browne. Then maybe they will realize that what they would like government to do - and what would actually happen - are two completey different things.
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gakroeger
Guest
This thread has now been active for over a month and is approaching 10,000 views and 1000 posts and I am not sure much progress has been made to educate those who continue to support abortion in at least some circumstances.
The original goal of this thread was to convince those who support abortion in at least some circumstances that the unborn child regardless of his/her stage of development was a human being and therefore deserving of the same respect and protection as all human beings. Those supporting abortion in at least some circumstances continue to argue the humanity of the unborn in at least some stages of development.
I would like to back up a step or two and look at how and why those who still support abortion in at least some circumstances have not moved one iota in the direction of pro life and continue to hold to the false “charity” for the pregnant woman over the life of the unborn child.
One of the very first obstacles to those who support abortion in at least some circumstances is the non acceptance of the immorality of unwed sex. I believe that most individuals that support abortion in at least some circumstances either believe unwed sex is not wrong or believe that it is acceptable. I would be interested in hearing from any “pro choice” person that does not think this assumption on my part is correct. This is the first point where the “pro choice” philosophy and Church teaching separate ways.
Once an individual accepts that unwed sex is not wrong, they naturally accept that unwed sex is an entitlement and nothing should interfere with that right.
The first thing that interferes with this entitlement is an unwanted pregnancy. This is the first time that the question comes up as to if the unborn child is a human being. If he/she is human it presents a huge moral problem for the parents of this unwanted child. Rationalization now becomes part of the equation, we are basically good people and we must rationalize why we do bad things.
This rationalization knows no boundaries; those who participate in this rationalization will ignore every valid point that challenges their rationalization or come up with meaningless analogies that will satisfy their conscience but not any honest thinking person.
We have had a few people post on this thread about, not theory but actual firsthand experience with abortion. They have explained how they were led by boyfriends, husbands, and abortion clinics to obtain unwanted abortions, and the guilt feelings and all of the consequences of those feelings. Not even these factual testimonies have any effect on those who are caught up in the rationalization game.
I have come to the conclusion, after reading all the posts on this thread that there are at least two different groups of “pro choice” people. The first group is the ideology leaders, those who are not thinking of people on a personal level but on a large society level. These are the people who want to shape our society to fit their ideology. The big players are or were; Senator Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Al Gore, Barack Obama, Planned Parenthood, and others. The second group is people like those “pro choice” people on this thread; they I believe are basically good people who have been misled by the first group.
Maybe the best way to attack this problem is to expose the ulterior motives of the first group because I believe their only goal is to achieve and retain power. I have posted elsewhere on this thread a link to expose Planned Parenthood and their true goals to manipulate the population by race and economic status. Has anyone ever wondered why the vast majority of the Planned Parenthood clinics are in low income minority neighborhoods? Is genocide really what the low income minorities want for themselves?
Of these two opposite philosophies of the first group mentioned above and the Catholic Church, only one truly holds the human race up as a sacred creation of God at all levels of ethnicity and development. The other degrades all humanity by separating certain segments as undeserving of the title human. Some of these far left groups are even now trying to put animals on a level (and in some cases above) with humans. Can you tell which is which?
The original goal of this thread was to convince those who support abortion in at least some circumstances that the unborn child regardless of his/her stage of development was a human being and therefore deserving of the same respect and protection as all human beings. Those supporting abortion in at least some circumstances continue to argue the humanity of the unborn in at least some stages of development.
I would like to back up a step or two and look at how and why those who still support abortion in at least some circumstances have not moved one iota in the direction of pro life and continue to hold to the false “charity” for the pregnant woman over the life of the unborn child.
One of the very first obstacles to those who support abortion in at least some circumstances is the non acceptance of the immorality of unwed sex. I believe that most individuals that support abortion in at least some circumstances either believe unwed sex is not wrong or believe that it is acceptable. I would be interested in hearing from any “pro choice” person that does not think this assumption on my part is correct. This is the first point where the “pro choice” philosophy and Church teaching separate ways.
Once an individual accepts that unwed sex is not wrong, they naturally accept that unwed sex is an entitlement and nothing should interfere with that right.
The first thing that interferes with this entitlement is an unwanted pregnancy. This is the first time that the question comes up as to if the unborn child is a human being. If he/she is human it presents a huge moral problem for the parents of this unwanted child. Rationalization now becomes part of the equation, we are basically good people and we must rationalize why we do bad things.
This rationalization knows no boundaries; those who participate in this rationalization will ignore every valid point that challenges their rationalization or come up with meaningless analogies that will satisfy their conscience but not any honest thinking person.
We have had a few people post on this thread about, not theory but actual firsthand experience with abortion. They have explained how they were led by boyfriends, husbands, and abortion clinics to obtain unwanted abortions, and the guilt feelings and all of the consequences of those feelings. Not even these factual testimonies have any effect on those who are caught up in the rationalization game.
I have come to the conclusion, after reading all the posts on this thread that there are at least two different groups of “pro choice” people. The first group is the ideology leaders, those who are not thinking of people on a personal level but on a large society level. These are the people who want to shape our society to fit their ideology. The big players are or were; Senator Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Al Gore, Barack Obama, Planned Parenthood, and others. The second group is people like those “pro choice” people on this thread; they I believe are basically good people who have been misled by the first group.
Maybe the best way to attack this problem is to expose the ulterior motives of the first group because I believe their only goal is to achieve and retain power. I have posted elsewhere on this thread a link to expose Planned Parenthood and their true goals to manipulate the population by race and economic status. Has anyone ever wondered why the vast majority of the Planned Parenthood clinics are in low income minority neighborhoods? Is genocide really what the low income minorities want for themselves?
Of these two opposite philosophies of the first group mentioned above and the Catholic Church, only one truly holds the human race up as a sacred creation of God at all levels of ethnicity and development. The other degrades all humanity by separating certain segments as undeserving of the title human. Some of these far left groups are even now trying to put animals on a level (and in some cases above) with humans. Can you tell which is which?
R
remjsmom76
Guest
That is so sad, to take “matters” into your own hands. Have you ever seen the move “The Mist” or “The Fog” Im not sure what its called but its about a fog that enelopes a city in Main. All of a sudden they are thrown into an almost nightmareish circumstance. Insects, bugs …HUGE animals that are preying on the humans animals never seen before are all of a sudden there. Mosquitos 500X bigger that sting and kill. Its a good movie. There is one instigator that says they need to get out of that town. He needed to get to his wife. He had his son. He and his son, plus 3 others, a woman and and eldery couple leave the “protection” of a building. They can not stop for anything or get out because of these things. In the end they run out of gas and are stranded…they have a gun but only 4 bullets. They would rather die than get taken alive and eaten alive. So, the main character shoots all 4 and is sobbing…he “had to” kill his own son. Then he gets out of the truck and is yelling “COME ONE GET ME!!! IM HERE WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?” then you hear a loud thump…these creatures are HUGE almost dinosour size or bigger. So your are thinking that its actually coming to get him. In an instant the fog rises.and you see tounges of flames coming through…its not the creatures…ITS THE MILITARY SAVING SURVIVOURS and protecting them. The guy is amazed but confused at the same time. If he didnt give up hope…if he only realized that he shouldnt have taken matters into his own hands. Sometimes things seem so desperate that the only thing to do is the thing you SHOULDNT DO!
Thats why this story struck me so much. If anything, pro-choicers…just read this and take it to heart. It is a true story. My husband family wanted me to abort my oldest daughter. If I had, she
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/remj(name removed by moderator)76/bekahprofile.jpg
wouldnt be here. I was only 4 weeks pregnant…by all acounts according to some of you, it wouldnt have mattered if i did abort her because she wasnt human. Look at her now…shes here because I believed that I MADET THE MISTAKE not her, heck I didnt know what I was having yet, I was only 4 weeks along. I still knew that it was a living being inside of me.
Now turn it around…my brother got his girlfriend pregnant. Her dad is an well i wont say it, but hes not a good man. She was scared of him. I was pregnant with my 3rd child at the same time. My brother called me and told me that she was going to have an abortion. I begged I pleaded. I said, I would adopt his child as my own. You know what stupid comment she said and even my brother, if I was in the same room he was i would have slapped him silly. She said that if she had a boy and she let me have him that she was afraid I wasnt going to give him back!!! I said yeah thats right I wouldnt give him back. They didnt want him, I was adopting him. Anywho. I had sent him so many videos of abortion procedures…one called “The Silent Scream”. You see the baby in the womb kicking and trying to get away. Then when they get the poor child to rip it apart, it opens a mouth as its arms are being pulled apart, it was screaming. So he called me told me she had gone to the abortion clinic and had a procedure done…but that she got out cause it was hurting her…I said “YEAH YOU IDIOT…ITS ABORTION NOT A WALK IN THE PART!!! LET IT HURT HER…SHES KILLING YOUR DAUGHTER !!!” Anywhoo…so they inserted a suppository to soften the cervix and cause contractions but they also introduced an infection into her uterus. She spiked a fever so high in less than 24 hours. She had an emergency c-section and my niece was born. She was so beautiful. I had just had my daughter and my daughter was a month old. I travled from colorado back to Texas to see her. She was born at 24 weeks I think. Maybe older. She was long and weighed just a bit over a pound. She lived for 32 days. Her lungs kept collapsing, They were not healing and she wasnt making it at all. finally they pulled the plug and let her pass away. She died in my brothers arms. I was mean to him…I know I shouldnt have, but he pissed me off and i was hormonal too, I had just had my own daughter… I told him he shouldnt cry…after its what he wanted…HER DEAD! He did realized, before I said that horrible comment, that he was very wrong. He said if he knew better he would have fought for her. Now he sees my 8 yr old and he does cry sometimes. He is depressed, he sort of lives life like there is nothing to live for anymore. I do feel bad for him and my daughter and him have a big deep bond. If he would have fought for his daughter, Monikah and Shelby would be in the same grade, probably in the same school.
They are humans…there is no doubt. Women make mistakes but its not the childs fault. They at least deserve the common decency to have a chance at life. 2 wrongs dont make a right. Right a wrong…let the child live. Yes women have choices…and in most cases the woman chose to have sex. Protected or not she chose. Sex is for making babies. That is its purpose. So unplanned babies, there is no such thing. Always plan to expect a pregnany after you have sex everytime. Thats why sex was given as a gift to husbands and wives…not girlfriends and boyfriend, friends with benefits, causally to have fun…its for husband and wives…to create a unitive bond AND to have babies.
Thats why this story struck me so much. If anything, pro-choicers…just read this and take it to heart. It is a true story. My husband family wanted me to abort my oldest daughter. If I had, she
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l185/remj(name removed by moderator)76/bekahprofile.jpg
wouldnt be here. I was only 4 weeks pregnant…by all acounts according to some of you, it wouldnt have mattered if i did abort her because she wasnt human. Look at her now…shes here because I believed that I MADET THE MISTAKE not her, heck I didnt know what I was having yet, I was only 4 weeks along. I still knew that it was a living being inside of me.
Now turn it around…my brother got his girlfriend pregnant. Her dad is an well i wont say it, but hes not a good man. She was scared of him. I was pregnant with my 3rd child at the same time. My brother called me and told me that she was going to have an abortion. I begged I pleaded. I said, I would adopt his child as my own. You know what stupid comment she said and even my brother, if I was in the same room he was i would have slapped him silly. She said that if she had a boy and she let me have him that she was afraid I wasnt going to give him back!!! I said yeah thats right I wouldnt give him back. They didnt want him, I was adopting him. Anywho. I had sent him so many videos of abortion procedures…one called “The Silent Scream”. You see the baby in the womb kicking and trying to get away. Then when they get the poor child to rip it apart, it opens a mouth as its arms are being pulled apart, it was screaming. So he called me told me she had gone to the abortion clinic and had a procedure done…but that she got out cause it was hurting her…I said “YEAH YOU IDIOT…ITS ABORTION NOT A WALK IN THE PART!!! LET IT HURT HER…SHES KILLING YOUR DAUGHTER !!!” Anywhoo…so they inserted a suppository to soften the cervix and cause contractions but they also introduced an infection into her uterus. She spiked a fever so high in less than 24 hours. She had an emergency c-section and my niece was born. She was so beautiful. I had just had my daughter and my daughter was a month old. I travled from colorado back to Texas to see her. She was born at 24 weeks I think. Maybe older. She was long and weighed just a bit over a pound. She lived for 32 days. Her lungs kept collapsing, They were not healing and she wasnt making it at all. finally they pulled the plug and let her pass away. She died in my brothers arms. I was mean to him…I know I shouldnt have, but he pissed me off and i was hormonal too, I had just had my own daughter… I told him he shouldnt cry…after its what he wanted…HER DEAD! He did realized, before I said that horrible comment, that he was very wrong. He said if he knew better he would have fought for her. Now he sees my 8 yr old and he does cry sometimes. He is depressed, he sort of lives life like there is nothing to live for anymore. I do feel bad for him and my daughter and him have a big deep bond. If he would have fought for his daughter, Monikah and Shelby would be in the same grade, probably in the same school.
They are humans…there is no doubt. Women make mistakes but its not the childs fault. They at least deserve the common decency to have a chance at life. 2 wrongs dont make a right. Right a wrong…let the child live. Yes women have choices…and in most cases the woman chose to have sex. Protected or not she chose. Sex is for making babies. That is its purpose. So unplanned babies, there is no such thing. Always plan to expect a pregnany after you have sex everytime. Thats why sex was given as a gift to husbands and wives…not girlfriends and boyfriend, friends with benefits, causally to have fun…its for husband and wives…to create a unitive bond AND to have babies.
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gakroeger
Guest
She is beautiful, congratulations; hopefully she will melt some hearts…
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remjsmom76
Guest
You kidding me…she already is!!! Its scary!!! However that be the case, shes so oblivious to it. She could care less if there are boys that are crushing on her. Shes made it perfectly clear to all her friends that she is to young to have a boy friend. She is not intrested in having boy friends…FRIENDS YES…not boyfriends. Shes got a very good head on her shoulders.
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gakroeger
Guest
I am sure she is, I was referring however to some of the hard hearts on this forum…
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beafedor
Guest
Thanks Gakroeger for reminding us why the thread had started. I was wondering if the subject was “Pro-choice versus Pro-abortion Debate” because I read so many posts of people who say “I’m pro-choice but I’m not pro-abortion”.
Also I want to apologize. Everybody has a right to be for or against abortion and to explain their arguments to others. Unfortunately I can’t read clearly where some people stand in some posts, I get frustrated and I guess I’m not humble enough to listen to them. So my apologies to you “Pro-choicers”. It would be so much easier if people would simply say: “I support abortion because…” or “I oppose abortion because…” Personally, I strongly oppose abortion in all circumstances, no exceptions, in case I didn’t phrase it clearly before. The reasons I have explained in previous posts with real life examples.
S
Supercatholic
Guest
I just want to present new information I saw on EWTN’s Life On The Rock. Father Frank Pavone provided a video that showed a fetus at 6 weeks in gestation via a scoptic camera. It was only an inch long, but you can clearly see it has a head, a face, eyes, a torso, hands, and a beating heart and intestines you can see through the torso’s thin skin. This puts a big monkey wrench in the pro-choice advocates’ claim that “the fetus is not person”. And don’t try to get around the idea that just because the fetus is not complete it isn’t human or a person, because I dare anyone to walk up to someone born with out limbs or eyes and say “Hey! You’re not really a person”.
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Worthy5
Guest
Well, your supposed " monkey wrench" does not undermine the pro-choice position based on the American policy of limited government and that society is not require to assume complete responsibility for this problem—that the women has a duty her given her intrinsic connection to the fetus and that govt can select different means (not just criminalizing all abortions under all circumstances) to attempt to protect the life of the fetus and otherwise deal with the abortion problem.
I dare you to walk up to the early fetus and say hey " You are just like that person born without limbs or eyes------but wait I guess you cannot do that since the fetus is inside the women and you cannot communicate to it can you ? So in that sense your analogy above is well…just that… an analogy only.
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