Pro Life versus Pro Choice Debate

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I thought we were trying to stick to the TOPIC the OP posted. Mea Culpa.
That’s OK. Everyone makes mistakes. No problem. 🙂

I have to leave now. Gakroeger, thank you very much for starting this debate - I learned a lot!! I will be starting a new thread which will emphasize biology. I hope to see you there and also everyone else, even you gearhead. 😉

Oh yeah, and even you Worthy5!! Good luck with what you are trying to do. 🙂

Thank you everyone!!
 
Good answer. I hope there is one available so they do not die while in transport.

Some stem cell research uses cells from embryos. Embryos are living human beings. That is why prolifers oppose it. It is not a problem when stem cells are used from the umbilical cord or bone marrow of donors.

Take a look at the description of my religion.

They are both of value. They are all living human beings. Yes I would save the eggs if I could.

Now I am being told by one poster that I am over-simplifying while another poster tells me that it is black and white.

What is absurd is that some people pop in in the last few posts, make their points and disappear.
I haven’t disappeared. I’m still watching. 😉
 
Hi Caramel, if you watch carefully you will see the people who attempt to complicate the issue are those who are not following the moral position.
You are right. I’ve never been through this before. This is amazing. While reading these last posts I’ve felt my faith in God grow much stronger. I am very very happy!!
 
The only thing that make abortion fuzzy in some peoples minds is their inability to accept the moral law that is written on their hearts. Religion has nothing to do with it, everyone knows deep in their hearts that abortion is wrong, black an white. We were all created as good beings but we some times fail to follow our hearts and fall victim to the urgings of the ones the fell before us (the fallen angels).
I’ve heard many people say the same thing. They know. PROCHOICERS KNOW THAT WHAT THEY ARE KILLING IS A HUMAN BEING. They rationalize in order to ease their guilt. But they know.
 
A person such as that would be dead. The lack of brain waves plus the lack of a heartbeat gives you a lifeless corpse.
He may have had a near-death experience but he is not dead. People without heartbeats are brought back. People with nondecipherable brain waves have been brought back. Look it up. Google it. Find out.

Then tell that man that he was a lifeless corpse - not a person, not a human being, even though you yourself stated “A person such as that…” So you are admitting that he is a person. Then you can tell him that he is no longer a lifeless corpse but is now again a human being. See what he has to say!!
 
I’ve heard many people say the same thing. They know. PROCHOICERS KNOW THAT WHAT THEY ARE KILLING IS A HUMAN BEING. They rationalize in order to ease their guilt. But they know.
Now Caramel, please use the term pro-abortionist if you are using that line of argument—remember. Pro-choice is a legal position arguing for the limits of govt power. 😃
 
Now Caramel, please use the term pro-abortionist if you are using that line of argument—remember. Pro-choice is a legal position arguing for the limits of govt power. 😃
Worthy, I like you. You drive me nuts but I like you, my friend.

At least sometimes…😃
 
Wow. you’re pretty nasty. Intelligent conversation just burns you up doesn’t it? I don’t mind having a civil conversation but I would ask that you be respectful.

I kind of like George W. Bush’s definition. He said that we know that a heartbeat and brainwave activity are signs of life. When these signs are gone, a person has died. Inversely, when these signs appear we now have a human life. After they disappear, you have a lifeless corpse. Before they appear, you have a lifeless embryo.

I thought this was a good explantion. It avoids the absudity of killing a kicking baby in the womb and the need to rescue a tray of cells. Via media.
Like I said…that is purely arbitrary. Even before the heartbeat and brainwave activity start, the “lifeless embryo” is growing. Things that are lifeless do not grow, they decay. Even before this activity starts it is growing based on its own unique, genetic material. Also by saying it is “lifeless,” you are showing your ignorance of basic biology. If a heartbeat and brain activity are requirements for life, then there are millions of organisms out there which you claim are nor alive. Furthermore, basing a scientific definition on the words of a president who has shown himself on multiple occasions to be less than bright is not a very wise course of action.
 
Is what? And whatever it is, is the use of govt’s police power to enforce the " moral law", always compatible with the notion of liberty?
For the sake of Justice, some things require protecton. The unborn children in their Mother’s womb demand in justice, they be protected. The abortionists are killing children, they are killing humans who have potential to become whatever they choose to become. And yes, it is the government’s role to protect the innocent. What you are talking about in the name of liberty is chaos.

It is up to us here in the US to see that the laws that are passed are moral and give justice to all.

SOCIAL JUSTICE BEGINS IN THE WOMB
 
For the sake of Justice, some things require protecton. The unborn children in their Mother’s womb demand in justice, they be protected. The abortionists are killing children, they are killing humans who have potential to become whatever they choose to become. And yes, it is the government’s role to protect the innocent. What you are talking about in the name of liberty is chaos.
It is up to us here in the US to see that the laws that are passed are moral and give justice to all.
" and give justice to all", was that not a Metallica tune. Anyway, well my friend be careful with that cry of " justice". Justice can be a very subjective thing and given that to be the case, I am not certain I want govt police power (the strongest force in society) on any crusade of " justice" without the notion of liberty and limited government out there to keep it under control.

Thomas More was threaten with “Justice” and we know what happen to him.
 
" and give justice to all", was that not a Metallica tune. Anyway, well my friend be careful with that cry of " justice". Justice can be a very subjective thing and given that to be the case, I am not certain I want govt police power (the strongest force in society) on any crusade of " justice" without the notion of liberty and limited government out there to keep it under control.

Thomas More was threaten with “Justice” and we know what happen to him.
This is the second time you have invoked the name of St. Thomas More without providing proper context. With every post you reveal that you are concerned about your own liberties, but no one else’s.
 
This is the second time you have invoked the name of St. Thomas More without providing proper context. With every post you reveal that you are concerned about your own liberties, but no one else’s.
Well for someone who uses his picture as part of your signature, you certainly should not need any context to be provided. For everyone else, I recommend " The Life of Thomas More" by Peter Ackroyd and the play " A Man for all Seasons" by Robert Bolt.
 
Well for someone who uses his picture as part of your signature, you certainly should not need any context to be provided. For everyone else, I recommend " The Life of Thomas More" by Peter Ackroyd and the play " A Man for all Seasons" by Robert Bolt.
I own the movie, have had a course in Tudor-Stuart England, and have read Utopia. I am not concerned about myself, but for the lurkers who might not know the story. More did not fall victim to justice, but was martyred defending it. I recommend you stop trying to misrepresent my patron.
 
But not without justification.
Without legitimate justification.
And moreover, not necessarily less effective means at actually stopping abortions-----is that not what really matters?
Yes, less effective. It is not either/or. It is both legal protection and other avenues. The civil law exists for a reason.
If a women violates God’s law, despite what society has tried to do to help her, then God can arrest her. This land is think with laws, man’s laws, not God’s.
The baby deserves protection, the protection of the law.
 
Of course not. I believe that yout scenario involves 6 kids. In the other scenario I believe that there is only one human being and a fridge full of cells.
At one point you were just “cells”. In some ways we all still are.
 
" and give justice to all", was that not a Metallica tune. Anyway, well my friend be careful with that cry of " justice". Justice can be a very subjective thing and given that to be the case, I am not certain I want govt police power (the strongest force in society) on any crusade of " justice" without the notion of liberty and limited government out there to keep it under control.

Thomas More was threaten with “Justice” and we know what happen to him.
But it wasn’t moral justice, but the whim of a king.

I didn’t say turn the act of justice over to the government. But the way things are going now, this is what is being done. Government is getting bigger and bigger and controls more and more. This government is making decisions for its citizens no sane person would want. True justice is not subjective, but is upheld for the moral good of all. We have fast become an immoral nation along with the rest of most of the countries of the world because our government makes too many decisions for us and we don’t rise up and let our voices be heard, or we ignore what is happening. Those of us who do raise our voices are not heard even if we scream. We have a group of arrogant, opinionated ner do wells in our congress and a POTUS who are taking this country down a dark path.
 
But it wasn’t moral justice, but the whim of a king.

I didn’t say turn the act of justice over to the government. But the way things are going now, this is what is being done. Government is getting bigger and bigger and controls more and more. This government is making decisions for its citizens no sane person would want. True justice is not subjective, but is upheld for the moral good of all. We have fast become an immoral nation along with the rest of most of the countries of the world because our government makes too many decisions for us and we don’t rise up and let our voices be heard, or we ignore what is happening. Those of us who do raise our voices are not heard even if we scream. We have a group of arrogant, opinionated ner do wells in our congress and a POTUS who are taking this country down a dark path.
We are paying a price for being too silent for the past 36 years while legalized abortion has been running rampant. Even 54% of Catholics voted for this administration…
 
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