Problem with a friend: Do I need boundaries or more charity?

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queentakesjack

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I have a friend who I’ve known since high school. I’m 25 now, we’ve been friends for 10 years though we only really became close the last 3. We tried dating (nothing too physical I assure you) 2 years ago. I realized that I didn’t feel anything for him in that way after some time & this was all happening at a time when my whole family was having a crisis, so I told him I didn’t want to date anymore and that I had too much on my plate & that I just wanted to be friends. He was okay with that so we have remained just friends the past 2 years. Here is where the problem comes in. He still really likes me. I’ve told him I don’t want a boyfriend & that I didn’t feel a spark anymore (in the most gentlest way I could). I told him I just want to be friends & he says he understands that. He doesn’t push me into dating him & he has told me that he can’t help his feelings, but that he will try and suppress them & is cool with us just being friends.But despite all that he doesn’t have a lot of friends or stuff to do so he wants to hang out with me every chance he can get.

I feel like if I say I’m busy on Monday then he always comes back with a well how about Tuesday, or Wednesday, etc… or when I say I have to work Monday he always says, well I can come over after you get off work & we can have dinner or we can just watch tv or etc…Hanging out with him wouldn’t be such a big deal because we have been friends for 10 years & we do have a lot in common. It’s just he doesn’t understand what wearing out his welcome means. He will come over at 9am and not leave until 9pm when I tell him I have to go to bed. I naturally like having a lot of alone time to myself & I feel stressed out when I have to be around him for that long. It isn’t just once a week here, he wants to hang out sometimes 3 or 4 times a week for hours on end. He sees me 1 day and wants to see me the next & I feel like I’m constantly having to come up with excuses for why I can’t spend so much time with him. I don’t want to be mean & say, “We can’t hang out because I don’t feel like it & if we do hang out today I only want to hang out with you for a couple hours because that’s all I can take!” It’s like since we’ve been friends for so long he thinks that I’m perfectly comfortable being around him ALL THE TIME, which I’m not.

Trying to be honest I can’t lie to him & tell him I’m busy when I’m not. I try very hard not to do that, but I find myself constantly backed into a wall. Take this X-mas for example: My mom and I in the spirit of charity invited him and his 2 brothers over for X-mas dinner IF they didn’t have anything to do. We did this because his family was in the midst of not speaking to each other and my mom and I didn’t want anyone to be alone on Christmas. So we were willing to invite them to our family X-mas. Well a week and a 1/2 before his family made up & so they had plans for X-mas morning & lunch. So naturally my mom & I thought that was it right. Nope, he called me a week in advance to tell me he invited his mother (without asking us) as well. We only extended the invite because we thought they’d be alone, but then he ended up turning it around to where it was like a my family meets his family kind of deal. With some quick thinking on our parts my mom & I managed to arrange for his family to come X-mas Eve and just my mom & I had dinner with them and then have our family X-mas on X-mas Day (which he naturally thought he was still invited to & came to as well). So we ended up making an entire dinner for him & his family on X-mas Eve. That same night he wanted to come to mass with us. (He is not Catholic but is curious). I’m in the RCIA & this was my 1st Christmas Eve mass that I’d ever get to attend, but i wasn’t going to say no to him coming. When it came time to do the profession of faith he got upset at the “I believe in 1 holy catholic & apostolic” & he made sure I knew that by saying quietly to me “I’m not happy about this.” right in the middle of mass. I’m trying to focus on my first x-mas mass but right next to me I could just feel him pouting. After we got out of there he told me how he felt like that was saying that only Catholicism is right and everybody else is wrong. I told him this is a CATHOLIC church and a CATHOLIC mass & yes we invite others to come but it is for CATHOLICS and that we do believe that we have the fullest truth and if we didn’t we wouldn’t be catholicl. I was upset because I felt like I couldn’t concentrate on the mass with him there stewing beside me & it kind of felt like he ruined my first X-mas mass. I told him it upset me, not because of his feelings, but because he felt the need to tell me his displeasure DURING the mass. He did apologize for his behavior, but in a way this is typical of him. I give him an inch and he somehow ends up taking a mile.

I know I’ve painted him in an unflattering light, but he does have a good heart it’s just he is wearing on my nerves & it is getting to the point where I don’t want to hang out with him. He is having a lot of personal problems and through our friendship I can see him looking at my own conversion & he is starting to take his Christian beliefs more seriously so I’m afraid of pushing him away because I’m wondering if God is calling me to evangelize him, because he has been seriously considering things and is curious about Catholicism & not just because I’m becoming catholic either. He likes to go to Eucharistic adoration now even if I don’t go with him and he helps the food pantry at our church sometimes too. I see my presence in his life is positive at least spiritually somewhat, but at the same time he is really annoying me. I want to be a good friend, but I feel like when I’m around him I don’t like how I get.
 
I’ve been dealing with this for a year & I just can’t seem to find a solution. I try to be more charitable but it seems the more I try the harder my heart gets. Do I need to just be firm with him & set up more boundaries or is I the problem? Do I need to be more charitable to a friend who is going through a hard time or is this a friendship I need to back away from? Sorry I had to post again because it was too long. Could anyone please give me some advise I’m so confused. 😦
 
Inviting more people over for the Christmas you’re doing the work for, your family Christmas with your mother, without asking you first? If he were your fiancé, he’d be in the doghouse. If he were a female friend, would we even be having this conversation? Do not make this guy into a pity friend. He’s never going to get the social life he’s looking for that way. You need to scale back your social life with him so you can get an actual boyfriend without totally devastating your ten-year friend.

It is time to be more blunt. “Jack, when two people are just friends, they do not spend 15 or 20 hours a week together. They get together maybe three or four times a month for a few hours each time. People who spend more time than that are very *very *close friends. We’re not doing that, remember? So how about I get you on the calendar three or four times in the next month, and we consider that good? That’s what I had in mind when I said I wanted to scale back to just being friends.” If he protests, then be blunt, “Jack, what are you going to do if I have a boyfriend? Hang out with us all of the time? Find that you haven’t gone out and found any social life except with me? You need to fly the nest, friend. Get out and about, and let’s really and truly just be friends. You’re never going to do that, hanging around here with me all of the time. Even if you could, it does not fit what I have in mind.”

On the Christmas thing, let it go, except that if you extend another such invitation in the future, you have to explain the social niceties. “Jack, let me remind you, this is a holiday dinner. You may not invite guests of your own without asking me, OK? If you pull that again like you did last Christmas, you’re only going to get invitation to potlucks. That is not cool; don’t do that to hosts.”

You’ve been friends for ten years; you can break these things to him. I suggest that it will be a charity to him if you do. If this is the way he treats his other social contacts, it is not a wonder that he doesn’t have more friends. Look at the Gospels–if it is a sin to be blunt with people when they’re infringing where you have authority, Our Lord wouldn’t have been as blunt as he was. Blunt is not unloving, when you are saying those things that you have the place to say. Sometimes, it is much more loving than thinking a lot of stuff that needs to be said, but isn’t.

If he gets petulant or tries to throw himself a pity party, do not bite. In a sane moment, you know how far his “social graces” are going to take him. If you don’t draw the line and expect him to change, you’ll be doing him a disservice. (Not your fault, since he is a grown-up, but you’re not encouraging good social habits in this guy by allowing him to wear out his welcome to such a threadbare state.) You’re going to need to learn to refuse the manipulations of people you love, as a preparation for being a parent. That is not hard-hearted. It is firmness of will, and it is a good thing.
 
EasterJoy said:
Inviting more people over for the Christmas you’re doing the work for, your family Christmas with your mother, without asking you first? If he were your fiancé, he’d be in the doghouse. If he were a female friend, would we even be having this conversation? Do not make this guy into a pity friend. He’s never going to get the social life he’s looking for that way. You need to scale back your social life with him so you can get an actual boyfriend without totally devastating your ten-year friend.

It is time to be more blunt. “Jack, when two people are just friends, they do not spend 15 or 20 hours a week together. They get together maybe three or four times a month for a few hours each time. People who spend more time than that are very *very *close friends. We’re not doing that, remember? So how about I get you on the calendar three or four times in the next month, and we consider that good? That’s what I had in mind when I said I wanted to scale back to just being friends.” If he protests, then be blunt, “Jack, what are you going to do if I have a boyfriend? Hang out with us all of the time? Find that you haven’t gone out and found any social life except with me? You need to fly the nest, friend. Get out and about, and let’s really and truly just be friends. You’re never going to do that, hanging around here with me all of the time. Even if you could, it does not fit what I have in mind.”

On the Christmas thing, let it go, except that if you extend another such invitation in the future, you have to explain the social niceties. “Jack, let me remind you, this is a holiday dinner. You may not invite guests of your own without asking me, OK? If you pull that again like you did last Christmas, you’re only going to get invitation to potlucks. That is not cool; don’t do that to hosts.”

You’ve been friends for ten years; you can break these things to him. I suggest that it will be a charity to him if you do. If this is the way he treats his other social contacts, it is not a wonder that he doesn’t have more friends. Look at the Gospels–if it is a sin to be blunt with people when they’re infringing where you have authority, Our Lord wouldn’t have been as blunt as he was. Blunt is not unloving, when you are saying those things that you have the place to say. Sometimes, it is much more loving than thinking a lot of stuff that needs to be said, but isn’t.
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Yes.
 
Some thoughts:
  1. He is girlfriend-zoning you.
He’s behaving toward you as if you really were his girlfriend.
  1. I like Easter Joy’s ideas about scheduling in your time with him and sticking to the schedule.
  2. Bear in mind that if a serious boyfriend for you appears, it’s going to be very difficult and awkward keeping both relationships.
  3. Be prepared for the eventuality that this friendship may not survive.
  4. Make sure he understands what the word “catholic” means in the dictionary.
  5. Don’t feel compelled to tolerate his unlimited presence in your life just so you can evangelize him.
  6. You will be doing him an invaluable favor if you (gently) raise a few issues of social decorum with him. Not all at once, and not at great length, but he needs to know that he is sabotaging himself and that his behavior is unacceptable and you will not accept it.
Good luck!
 
You just need to tell him you want more time to yourself. It’s not unusual for teens to get together every day (which is when you met him) but it usually doesn’t continue that way for someone in their 20s. He needs to find something else to do with his time. Your aren’t responsible for meeting his social needs.
 
I’ve been in this spot…and it’s not easy but you seem to be doing what I was inadvertently doing – sending him all the wrong signals. NOT saying what is really in your mind. Feeling sorry for him, so you invite him to Christmas. Been there. Trying to spare his feelings is only going to hurt him more in the end and then you may be accused of leading him on, like I was. You have to have a heart to heart talk with him and swear to yourself that a LIE will not pass your lips.

Tell this guy you made the mistake of not wanting to hurt him so you’ve been less than honest. Explain how his constant presence is making you crazy. Make a list, be kind, tell him exactly how you want your relationship to be with him. Set your boundaries EXACTLY how you want them.

If you don’t care if a month goes by without seeing him, say so and follow through. If you really want to see him, but just once a week, stick to it. Set your boundaries and stick to them. Just be honest with the guy, he deserves it.

He’s got a crush on you. Nothing’s going to change until you change it and stick to your plan. Good luck.
 
Set your boundaries and be consistent with it. It is hard but he sounds very clingy and could become quite possessive if you aren’t careful.

Your job isn’t to save his soul. Only God can do that. You can be there but it gets to a point where if you feel as if you are suffocating, you have to set your limits by limiting the phone calls, the visits etc.

I would set the limits and keep to them as difficult as it will be. For example if you say: you can only hang out twice a week, keep it to that. Consistency will be important. Telephone as well. I would also limit his visits to your house because it seems as if he can’t take the hint. By going to his house or another place means once you have had enough you can leave and that’s it. He will have to understand.

I suggest that you introduce it slowly so that it will be easier for the both of you to adjust to this new lifestyle. If he is going through a tough time, I also suggest that you ask your priest if he would be willing to talk to him and ask if he could recommend a good christian counsellor for him.

Valentine’s day will be approaching soon so try for your sake, make plans now with friends so that if he asks to do something, you can honestly say you are busy. Doing something on valentine’s day could give him a hint that you are in fact feel more than you do.

Easter will also be fast approaching as well. If you are being confirmed at Easter vigil, I expect that you will probably want him at your confirmation which will be awesome but any other family event, I wouldn’t invite him. I would tell him that this year you are keeping Easter small and unfortunately you can’t invite him. If he has issues with it, get your family involved and get them to help and support you.

With a guy like that, it is important to limit your contact because sometimes it is possible to become too close to a person that you don’t have any intention of dating and marrying. This closeness could cause a potential issue with any man you decide to date later on. Furthermore, once you date, he could also become possessive and you will have other issues on your plate. It is important to act now. Sometimes with needy people you have to step back and take care of yourself. Let the professionals take care of him.

If he asks what you are doing, you don’t have to answer, you can just say you are busy. If you feel bad at lying, get involved in some volunteer work, join some community groups, find a job etc just get busy. That way you will be meeting new people and he won’t be driving you crazy. Just don’t tell him what you are doing so that he will not decide to also volunteer and join you in these activities.

I have dealt with people like this before so please feel free to message me if you need any help or guidance on this matter.

SG
 
Lots of excellent advice above. I would add…pray before your honest and serious conversation with him.
 
queentakesjack said:
I’ve been dealing with this for a year & I just can’t seem to find a solution. I try to be more charitable but it seems the more I try the harder my heart gets. Do I need to just be firm with him & set up more boundaries or is I the problem? Do I need to be more charitable to a friend who is going through a hard time or is this a friendship I need to back away from? Sorry I had to post again because it was too long. Could anyone please give me some advise I’m so confused. 😦
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Boundaries, hon, boundaries. Remember this: “No” is a complete sentence. “No, thank you” is a complete sentence. “No, I can’t” is a complete sentence. You’re not required to explain.

Him: “let’s hang out tomorrow”
You: “no, I can’t”
Him: “why?”
You: “because I can’t. How about those Packers?”

Rinse and repeat.
 
Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I guess maybe deep down I have known for a little while that he was getting too close and it was time for me to put my foot down. I just feel like I’m being mean, but you all are right. It isn’t mean to set necessary boundaries and that by being too nice I’m not doing him any favors.

Do any of you have any advice for how I should go about approaching this subject with him? Should I do it face to face or maybe over the phone? I’m a timid person by nature, but I want to be clear and honest but do it as gently as possible. He wants to come over tomorrow so should I do it then or wait a bit, pray some more, and then when I think I have a clear plan break it to him then? Should I do the band-aid approach or try little steps that gradually build up to the eventual “I just want to see you a couple times a month for a couple hours” convo?

Again thank you all so much. I feel reassured now that this is a necessary thing I have to gather up my courage and do. :blessyou: all!
 
queentakesjack said:
Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I guess maybe deep down I have known for a little while that he was getting too close and it was time for me to put my foot down. I just feel like I’m being mean, but you all are right. It isn’t mean to set necessary boundaries and that by being too nice I’m not doing him any favors.

Do any of you have any advice for how I should go about approaching this subject with him? Should I do it face to face or maybe over the phone? I’m a timid person by nature, but I want to be clear and honest but do it as gently as possible. He wants to come over tomorrow so should I do it then or wait a bit, pray some more, and then when I think I have a clear plan break it to him then? Should I do the band-aid approach or try little steps that gradually build up to the eventual “I just want to see you a couple times a month for a couple hours” convo?

Again thank you all so much. I feel reassured now that this is a necessary thing I have to gather up my courage and do. :blessyou: all!
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Email has obvious disadvantages (not very private, etc.), but it does have the advantage that you control it and you can edit it to your heart’s content before sending it.

I suspect that in a face-to-face conversation, you’ll get steamrolled.

Maybe introduce the new schedule and then explain the principles to him if he objects?

(If you don’t feel 100% safe with him, be careful.)
 
I don’t think you are going to be able to set all of the new boundaries at once. You might have a chat with him and say a few things, but the reality is that he will probably not completely change his behavior. So the next time he wants to hang out with you and it’s been too soon, you’ll have to at that point give him the speech that Easter Joy suggested in her first reply to you. And then you’ll probably have to give it again. And again. So my suggestion would be to study these suggestions and your own arguments that you would make, even if just to convince yourself. So that you can feel confident saying no when something comes up.

If you do alot of communicating by text or email, you have an advantage in all of those little moments, but for the first chat where you let him know that you’ve made a mistake in letting things go on as though you were dating and things have to change, it would be nice to do that in person if possible, because you are making a big change to the terms of the relationship. You could write it out in letter form, and just read it to him (explaining that you wanted to talk face to face, but were afraid of forgetting what you want to say). Or you could write out an outline. If you really can’t pull it off in person, do it another way. But even if the in person conversation doesn’t go as you want, you can always follow it up with an email, clarifying what you wanted to say, and what the terms will be. You don’t have to clarify EVERY term right off the bat though. You might have to have those things worked out in your own head, but you don’t necessarily need to give him a laundry list of all the ways the boundaries have been crossed over the years. Rather a short chat of “I’ve mistakenly given you the wrong message. I’ve told you I’m interested in you as a friend, but the level that we have been doing things together, it is too much like a dating relationship. That has to change, because my feelings haven’t. I value your friendship, but to remain friends, I’m going to need to make a little more space between us.” When given the “what do you mean” reply, you can give a couple of examples, like hang out less frequently and for shorter periods of time, like what is normal for regular friends. And no “meet the parents” family get togethers" etc…" But you don’t need to go on and on (nor does he), and you don’t need to convince him that this is right. You are just giving him a heads up that you are backing, so that it doesn’t hit him out of the blue.
 
Don’t want to sound “mean” but…it seems to me that when you know a guy is romantically interested in you and you don’t share those feelings, that hanging out with them 2-3 times a week is not wise. My goodness…that’s a lot of free time being spent with someone, giving them “hope” of something that isn’t going to happen. You both need to be developing other friendships, too.

Since you aren’t a real forceful person, I would compose an email stating the truth…that you have enjoyed the friendship, but don’t share the romantic feelings and it is best to change the direction. Limit “hanging out” to a couple times a month (and if possible, include others in that time).

No, he won’t like it…but it seems the most charitable thing to do.
 
This person isn’t your friend. He’s your stalker.

Frankly, you need to sever the ties with him completely IMHO.

He doesn’t want to be friends, he wants to be more. The (false) idea you can “just be friends” is making both of you miserable.

You do not owe him anything. And, no, you are not being uncharitable. You are not responsible for his emotional life, his spiritual life, or his social life.
 
Pax2u said:
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Since you aren’t a real forceful person, I would compose an email stating the truth…that you have enjoyed the friendship, but don’t share the romantic feelings and it is best to change the direction. Limit “hanging out” to a couple times a month (and if possible, include others in that time).
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I like the idea of including other people frequently.
 
No do not have him over again for a talk. I think an email would be best and then if necessary repeat the boundary over the phone. God does not expect you to evangelize him to your detriment. Even a close friend would not stay from 9 am to 9pm. He has problems understanding social norms and he takes advantage of your timidness.

Limit your time to a planned outing a few times a month in a limited time frame -like a movie, or bowling (whatever activities you like), preferably including others. If won’t respect your boundaries and keeps pushing then you need to take several months off from this friendship or end it completely.

Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is an excellent resource.
 
1ke said:
This person isn’t your friend. He’s your stalker.

Frankly, you need to sever the ties with him completely IMHO.

He doesn’t want to be friends, he wants to be more. The (false) idea you can “just be friends” is making both of you miserable.

You do not owe him anything. And, no, you are not being uncharitable. You are not responsible for his emotional life, his spiritual life, or his social life.
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Yep, this pretty much sums it up. Friendships are supposed to be enjoyable, but what you’ve described just sounds like an uncomfortable situation. This guy is obsessed with you. I know it might be hard, but you need to start cutting ties with him. Staying at your house for 12 hours? That’s not hanging out. That’s odd behavior.
 
1ke said:
This person isn’t your friend. He’s your stalker.

Frankly, you need to sever the ties with him completely IMHO.

He doesn’t want to be friends, he wants to be more. The (false) idea you can “just be friends” is making both of you miserable.

You do not owe him anything. And, no, you are not being uncharitable. You are not responsible for his emotional life, his spiritual life, or his social life.
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On second thought, I think there is wisdom in this post. Stalking is a little stronger than I would go, but it’s true that he is treating you like a girlfriend. Unfortunately, you have unwittingly treated him like a boyfriend too, by allowing him such special status and access, so I guess that’s why I can see giving him a chance to accept a scaled back friendship as a reasonable thing - IF you really do enjoy the friendship. But it also makes sense to realize that he probably won’t be ok with the scaled back friendship. And if he pressures you at all to push the boundaries, cutting ties may be the only thing you can do to protect those boundaries. And it is true - you don’t owe him friendship of any sort, nor would it be uncharitable to stop being his friend.
 
queentakesjack said:
Thank you all for the wonderful advice. I guess maybe deep down I have known for a little while that he was getting too close and it was time for me to put my foot down. I just feel like I’m being mean, but you all are right. It isn’t mean to set necessary boundaries and that by being too nice I’m not doing him any favors.

Do any of you have any advice for how I should go about approaching this subject with him? Should I do it face to face or maybe over the phone? I’m a timid person by nature, but I want to be clear and honest but do it as gently as possible. He wants to come over tomorrow so should I do it then or wait a bit, pray some more, and then when I think I have a clear plan break it to him then? Should I do the band-aid approach or try little steps that gradually build up to the eventual “I just want to see you a couple times a month for a couple hours” convo?

Again thank you all so much. I feel reassured now that this is a necessary thing I have to gather up my courage and do. :blessyou: all!
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I would address the issues as they come up, rather than sitting him down for a lecture. That he needs to learn this stuff does not necessarily mean he needs to learn it from you. Getting it from you, the object of his desire, might be the most painful and depressing route possible. Try not to go there. Stick to enforcing individual zones of your boundaries. For instance, when he calls and asks to come over, then you can say, “Jack, the idea was for us to be just friends. In my opinion, ‘just friends’ do not get together two or three times a week. I’m thinking more like three times a month. I’d be up for scheduling something like that, but this is too often.” If he gets into a huff and says, “Well, if you don’t want me calling and don’t want to just hang out when we have nothing else planned, I don’t think that’s really being friends at all,” then you can say, “Well, maybe this ‘just be friends’ thing was not realistic. We need to get some space before we can move on.”

Let us say that he argues with you or guilt-trips you. Role-play your way through the answers.
Why don’t you want to get together more often? Is there something wrong with me? (No, but I told you I don’t want such a close relationship. We are not boyfriend and girlfriend, and even if we were I would want more time to myself.)
What am I supposed to do? I don’t know anyone. (You’re not going to get to know anyone by spending all your time with me.)
Why? Do you have a boyfriend? Are you trying to get rid of me? (No, Jack, I do not have a boyfriend, but you are going to have to get used to the idea that some day I will probably have one. If I don’t, the other sisters at my convent are not going to stand for you dropping by the convent 15 hours a week.)

I will guarantee you that the actual conversation will not go so easily as you have rehearsed it, but that is OK. He is putting you in a tough spot. As the pilots say, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

Also, consider that there is a cartoon making the rounds. It is a picture of a dead dog, with the caption, “I don’t want to be your girl friend, but we can still be friends, right?” To the person who wants a romantic relationship, to be offered to drop back to ‘just friends’ is like having someone kill your dog and tell you that you can still have the body, if you’d like. Sometimes, something is not only worse than nothing, but a LOT worse than nothing. No one who is really carrying a torch for somebody else is really going to cope with being “just friends.” It only works if there is some hint of relief on both sides that this friend isn’t going to pursue the boyfriend-girlfriend thing. If this isn’t working, just say, “Jack, I think we’re fooling ourselves. This ‘just friends’ thing is not working. I feel like you are still pursuing me. Let’s just break up like normal people do. You go your way, I’ll go my way, and later on down the line we’ll occasionally meet in the grocery store and catch up.” That may eventually be the way you are going to have to go. If it is, don’t feel guilty. Some times, these things cannot be helped.
 
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