Problematic hymns for congregational singing

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Today at my parish, we sang “Lo, How a Rose E’er Blooming”, and in my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful Advent/Christmas hymns. Well, I don’t know what happened, but the congregation and cantor were just not keen on this hymn. I don’t know what was really the trigger for this hymn to be a bad choice for congregational singing. Has anyone’s parish ever used this hymn and had a problem with it?

What other hymns can you think of that might be “problematic” for congregational singing?
 
We have used it but did not have a problem with it. Timing on that piece is crucial. If you did not have good accompaniment,or timing was off for another reason, that could be it. This is a hymn to practice witht he congregation before Mass in order to point out the problematic portions. We are fairly new here, but I bet this congregation has sung it before. I agree, it is a beautiful hymn.
 
IMHO the worst congregational singing song is “Let There Be Peace On Earth” - the range in that song is a challenge for a semi-professional singer, let alone Joe and Sally Pewsitter.
 
Lo Rose song has uneven meters…back and forth between 6 and 4. Since its only done during Advent, I wouldn’t receommend it for congregation. I had a quartet do it today.
 
Ohana said:
We have used it but did not have a problem with it. Timing on that piece is crucial. If you did not have good accompaniment,or timing was off for another reason, that could be it. This is a hymn to practice witht he congregation before Mass in order to point out the problematic portions. We are fairly new here, but I bet this congregation has sung it before. I agree, it is a beautiful hymn.
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I think it was pretty ugly too because our parish hasn’t done it in forever for what I can remember. I wish that they would’ve planned it better because the way it went today, we won’t be singing it ever again. 😦
 
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding why so many difficult hymns are being used for congregational singing which are better fitted to a trained choir? the pewsters are more centred on following the tune than the sentiment of the hymn I;m inOnt. Canada and I think we need an overhaul/.Who decides the hymnals that get used.?I spend two months in Cape Coral Fla. and St Andrews Church has lovely music and musicians also my birth Parish St Patrick;s in Scotland has wonderful music an d all the congregation gets right into it …?so is it a regional thing?
 
Ohana said:
We have used it but did not have a problem with it. Timing on that piece is crucial…
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Agreed. In the wrong hands it sounds like a dirge. Also, isn’t it in a minor key? Anyway, it needs a choir, the arrangement is fantastic, to lead a group unfamiliar. Also, it’s quite poetic, if they are barely following the notes, they aren’t paying attention to the lyrics.

If you love it, sing louder!

Here’s a nice rendition: youtu.be/jyuOIYCERc4
 
jannes said:
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding why so many difficult hymns are being used for congregational singing which are better fitted to a trained choir? the pewsters are more centred on following the tune than the sentiment of the hymn I;m inOnt. Canada and I think we need an overhaul/.Who decides the hymnals that get used.?I spend two months in Cape Coral Fla. and St Andrews Church has lovely music and musicians also my birth Parish St Patrick;s in Scotland has wonderful music an d all the congregation gets right into it …?so is it a regional thing?
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It usually depends on the music director’s tastes on which hymnal is to be used. Sometimes it’s the priests of that particular parish.

My music director said that “Lo, How a Rose E’er Blooming” was sung a lot better by the choir than by the cantors/congregation. I do think that it was probably meant for a full choir and not congregation.
 
CatholicZ09 said:
Today at my parish, we sang “Lo, How a Rose E’er Blooming”, and in my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful Advent/Christmas hymns. Well, I don’t know what happened, but the congregation and cantor were just not keen on this hymn. I don’t know what was really the trigger for this hymn to be a bad choice for congregational singing. Has anyone’s parish ever used this hymn and had a problem with it?

What other hymns can you think of that might be “problematic” for congregational singing?
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Yes, it is a beautiful song, but it is difficult to sing. When they do it at our church, I spend a lot of time cringing and not singing because it’s out of my range, or people aren’t keeping up with each other.
 
CB_Catholic said:
Yes, it is a beautiful song, but it is difficult to sing. When they do it at our church, I spend a lot of time cringing and not singing because it’s out of my range, or people aren’t keeping up with each other.
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It is a REALLY tricky hymn too if you cannot read music. For example, the many half notes especially at the “frommmmm teeeeenderrrr stemmmmm haaaaath sprung!”

Maybe the best option would’ve been to practice it beforehand so that it didn’t turn out to be distracting.
 
We did both “Lo How. . .” and “O Come . . .” this morning. “Lo” went well, but some folks in the congregation had problems with entering at the rest at the beginnings of some lines. No big deal; we got thru them. I’m looking at doing “O Come . . .” as an ocarina solo with a pre-recorded accompaniment, but regularized into a 4/4 time signature.
 
jannes said:
Is anyone else having a hard time understanding why so many difficult hymns are being used for congregational singing which are better fitted to a trained choir? the pewsters are more centred on following the tune than the sentiment of the hymn I;m inOnt. Canada and I think we need an overhaul/.Who decides the hymnals that get used.?I spend two months in Cape Coral Fla. and St Andrews Church has lovely music and musicians also my birth Parish St Patrick;s in Scotland has wonderful music an d all the congregation gets right into it …?so is it a regional thing?
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At conventions, there has lately been more of a concentration on choir performance pieces, with maybe a short congregational refrain. In a recent hymnal insert for the new texts, too many songs have text only instead of notes for the congregation. The hymnal my parish uses has text only for verses on many hymns. How does that encourage congregational singing?

The parish music director usually leads a committee to choose a hymnal, with approval of the pastor. So, it’s not a regional thing - the most important factor is the pastor’s attitude toward assembly singing. If the pastor doesn’t care, he won’t encourage and insist on it.

Too many parishes leave their music programs in the hands of under qualified people, which totally baffles me. Would you get the electrical work done by an interested but under-qualified electrician? How about a high school senior who thinks biology is cool being allowed to do minor surgery on you? So why is it okay for someone who can barely play an instrument or sing or knows little about liturgy to make musical decisions?
 
WhiteLeather said:
At conventions, there has lately been more of a concentration on choir performance pieces, with maybe a short congregational refrain. In a recent hymnal insert for the new texts, too many songs have text only instead of notes for the congregation. The hymnal my parish uses has text only for verses on many hymns. How does that encourage congregational singing?

The parish music director usually leads a committee to choose a hymnal, with approval of the pastor. So, it’s not a regional thing - the most important factor is the pastor’s attitude toward assembly singing. If the pastor doesn’t care, he won’t encourage and insist on it.

Too many parishes leave their music programs in the hands of under qualified people, which totally baffles me. Would you get the electrical work done by an interested but under-qualified electrician? How about a high school senior who thinks biology is cool being allowed to do minor surgery on you? So why is it okay for someone who can barely play an instrument or sing or knows little about liturgy to make musical decisions?
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
Cat said:
You’ve nailed it.

Electricians and surgeons are paid, but musicians are expected to volunteer in church–at least in Catholic churches.
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Not all of them, but most yes. Most cathedrals and basilicas have paid full-time organists, in my experience, and so do many of the largest regular parishes, but not usually your average place.
 
The second verse of O Come All Ye Faithful doesn’t work in my parish. It’s like a train being derailed and crashing.
 
We sing it as a choir piece and everyone loves it. It is much better sung in harmony and we also sing it a capella. There are other beautiful Advent hymns that are suitable for congregations (like O Come Emmanuel).
We’ve also done some carolling at Nursing Homes recently and have sung it as solo, duet and trio.
 
Ohana said:
We have used it but did not have a problem with it. Timing on that piece is crucial. If you did not have good accompaniment,or timing was off for another reason, that could be it. This is a hymn to practice witht he congregation before Mass in order to point out the problematic portions. We are fairly new here, but I bet this congregation has sung it before. I agree, it is a beautiful hymn.
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Timing is definately an issue. Most congregations contain mostly people who can’t read music, were never trained to sing, don’t know how to stay on key, etc. Hymns that work best have regular rythmns and few very high or very low notes (outside of a normal speaking range). That’s why hymns like “A Mighty Fortress Is Our God” are so popular even though the lyrics were written by Martin Luther. The tune for that hymn, and many others, was originally a drinking song. 😉 So hymns with those easy, rolling tunes in a mid range are always going to be better sung.

Either that, or a parish needs an excellent music director who has the patience to repeat hymns often enough and an organist/pianist who can play them well enough for everyone to learn!
 
CatholicZ09 said:
Today at my parish, we sang “Lo, How a Rose E’er Blooming”, and in my opinion, it is one of the most beautiful Advent/Christmas hymns. Well, I don’t know what happened, but the congregation and cantor were just not keen on this hymn. I don’t know what was really the trigger for this hymn to be a bad choice for congregational singing. Has anyone’s parish ever used this hymn and had a problem with it?

What other hymns can you think of that might be “problematic” for congregational singing?
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Here’s my opinion: it’s a very nice choral piece, but for a congregational hymn? Not so much…
 
There is an issue of “regionality” that some from the United States might not be aware. The original poster noted she was from Canada. Technically, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB which = the USCCB) has a liturgy division which was responsible for organizing a commission to prepare a hymnal. Unlike the numerous hymnals available and officially in use in the US, technically there is only one (and now adapted) hymnal officially recognized by the CCCB - The Catholic Book of Worship III and now Celebrate in Song. This does not mean that churches ONLY use this hymnal - and then comes the question of finances - how many books for parishioners can the church afford… And then comes the issue of priest preferences for styles, if he exerts this right to dictate. And finally the choir director’s choice, if given the opportunity to chose. As a post script, then one can add the issue of the level of knowledge and experience of the choir director, all other factors being equal.
 
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