Problems with dogmas regarding Adam and Eve

[De_Maria]

As far as Im aware the faithful are required to believe Adam and Eve had imortal bodies before the fall. However i find

If you’re Catholic, ask yourself, who is the Teacher of God’s Wisdom? Me or the Church."

Once you answer that question as a Catholic, you will see the folly of your question.

that the biblical narrative does not support this,

Yes, it does. Your interpretation of the Biblical narrative, does not.

so here are my reasons.

My reading of genesis 3 begs me to interpret this differently.

You just hit the nail on the head. You interpret it differently.

To me it seems that eating from the tree of life grants immortality to man.

After the Fall. It wasn’t necessary, before.

God put man in the garden with access to the tree of life and gave no command not to eat from it

.

Nor a command to eat of it, because it was not needed before the Fall.

So Adam had access and the right to obtain immortality but he was not created with immortality.

Adam and Eve already possessed immortality and eating of that tree was not necessary to obtain it.

Upon eating from the tree of knowledge however, he lost the chance to obtain immortality for he was banished from the garden.

No. Upon eating of the tree of knowledge, man lost original justice and therefore could no longer live in unity with God. Thus, he could not be permitted to eat of the tree of life.

Reasons why this view makes sense from the text.

1. gen 3:22 seems to suggest 4 things, that the tree of life gives eternal life; that Adam lost the chance to obtain immortality; that Adam had not yet eaten from the tree of life; he would only need to eat from it once to obtain eternal life.

That doesn’t make sense because we have to eat of the Tree of Life (the Eucharist) multiple times to obtain and retain eternal life.

1. Also considering that Adam only need to eat from the tree of knowledge once to obtain knowledge permanently, then only eating from the tree of life once grants life permanently.

They did not obtain knowledge. That is the trick of Satan. They obtained nothing and lost everything when they lost their loving relationship with God.

1. The text never mentions Adam eating from the tree of life before the fall.

Because it is irrelevant to the text. Even if he had, he severed his tie with God when He disobeyed God’s command. God is eternal life.

The main difference im getting at is, that God did not create man with an immortal body, rather God gave man a choice between Life and Knowledge. Man chose knowledge and not life. Man had access to immortality he was not created in an imortal state

On the contrary, God did create man with an immortal body. Man chose to disobey God and lost all the fruits of their state in life, that of Original Holiness and Justice. They traded this for the condition of Original Sin.

Other questions to consider regaining jesus and man’s original state.

If Jesus did not have original sin how was he able to suffer, how was he able to die?

Jesus did not have Original Sin. He voluntarily offered His Body to suffer in place for those who were born with Original Sin.

If Jesus was never crucified would he have suffered a natural death?

Irrelevant. Jesus was born to die as an offering for our sins. It is written:

Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Acts 2:23 this man, handed over to you according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. 24 But God raised him up, having freed him from death, because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.

This also has me wonder about weather or not Man had sanctifying grace, i would not contend that adam did not have free will but did he have sanctifying grace im not sure.

No. Sanctifying grace was not given until Jesus died. This is why our condition is better than Adam’s.

That can be another post however.

Ok.

 

[joemccarron]

As one who believes that Genesis account of the fall is simply an allegory to attempt to explain to an ancient nomadic people their origin and resolve the conflict of how a God of perfection could allow evil, sin, and death into the world, personally I think you are overthinking the whole thing. Kind of like trying to resolve how Noah got polar bears, penguins, kangaroos, and western diamondback rattlesnakes on the ark. They are allegorical stories to try to make a point.

Enjoy the discussion. From here on out on this thread …

As to your questions about Jesus, I hope to spend eons in his presence, listening to his answers to these questions.

Shalom

I can only repeat what he said.

 

[grannymh]

As one who believes that Genesis account of the fall is simply an allegory to attempt to explain to an ancient nomadic people their origin and resolve the conflict of how a God of perfection could allow evil, sin, and death into the world, personally I think you are overthinking the whole thing. Kind of like trying to resolve how Noah got polar bears, penguins, kangaroos, and western diamondback rattlesnakes on the ark. They are allegorical stories to try to make a point.

Enjoy the discussion. From here on out on this thread …

Personally, I have a small difficulty in believing that God(Who appears in the first three chapters of that popular novel) is one or many of the god descriptions evinced in the legends of the early humans and transmitted in some creative form to a variety of cultures.

As a kid, I tested the Roman and Greek gods, trying to determine which group was the best.

By the way, Noah does not, repeat not, appear in the first three fascinating chapters of Genesis.