Problems with the Book of Mormon

[ParkerD]

Paul,
Sorry to differ, but I would not be at all surprised that Catholics receive divine guidance in their everyday lives, nor am I taught that they don’t.

I did mean what I said about your being guided to peace and happiness. I never said you don’t have those things. I wish you well with what you have. No doubt it is a bastion of strength in your life.

 

[ParkerD]

Holly,
You haven’t read the book, so you have no basis for making your statement. I’ve read the Bible more times than yourself, and assure you that the Book of Mormon is a true book with some of the hidden wisdom talked about by the Apostle Paul.

But I’m not bothered by your post. You have exactly what you want, which is exactly what God would wish you to have–no more than what you want, no forcing His will into your life. I sincerely wish you every happiness.

 

[Jerusha]

Even if the Book of Mormon were ancient (and it is not) the “ethics” presented in it ABSOLUTELY refute it as sacred scripture.

 

[ParkerD]

Hi, Jerusha,
Since I love the subject of ethics, especially in today’s world where it is so vitally needed, I have no idea what you meant by your post (if it was intended for me).

 

[Jerusha]

My, you are sensitive, aren’t you? No, I have not noticed your posts previously. I have undertaken a very serious study of the BOM, and that is my conclusion. I won’t explain it here today, maybe you will read it elsewhere someday.

 

[KestrelRose]

My problem with the Book of Mormon is the author, Solomon Spaulding.

Google Solomon Spaulding and you will understand what I mean.

 

[BartBurk]

That’s the same “proof” that Muslims use for the Koran. Muhammed was allegedly illiterate, and so the Koran must be true!

The answer is similar in both cases. Sidney Rigdon wrote the Book of Mormon (the evidence is overwhelming) and Muhammed’s followers wrote the Koran from what they remembered of Muhammed’s sayings (they documented that fact). Besides, Joseph Smith wasn’t as ignorant or unschooled as you want to think he was, and the Book of Mormon is not really much of a book. The only good stuff in it was plagiarized from the bible.

Here’s the link that proved to me that Sidney wrote the book:

mormonstudies.com/criddle/rigdon.htm

 

[PaulDupre]

Paul,
For Sidney Rigdon to have “written” the Book of Mormon, he would have to have done it anonymously since he wasn’t anywhere near Joseph Smith when the Book was written.

Wrong.

**Historical evidence connecting Rigdon to Smith before 1830
**
Prior to 1830, Rigdon reportedly made several statements in which he indicated his foreknowledge of The Book of Mormon and the impending rise of a new religion.

At a Reformed Baptist convention in Aug 1830, Rigdon spoke of a fuller revelation about to come forth and the need for a complete restoration of the gospel.

Rigdon denied meeting Smith before 1830, but several people reported seeing him at or near the Smith’s prior to that date and Rigdon’s calendar contains gaps at critical time periods when he would have had time to visit Smith

In 1868 Rigdon wrote a letter in which he claimed to know the contents of the sealed portion of The Book of Mormon

James Jeffery, a friend of Rigdon’s, testified that in 1844 he heard Rigdon say that Smith used a Spalding manuscript to fabricate The Book of Mormon

(Details at the source cited below)

• Source: mormonstudies.com/criddle/rigdon.htm#7

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Even if the Book of Mormon were ancient (and it is not) the “ethics” presented in it ABSOLUTELY refute it as sacred scripture.

Maybe - just to test questions of the kind being discussed - it would be worthwhile “proving” the Divine origin of Tolkien’s stuff There is no way to prove it is not Divinely inspired: & it functions socially much as the Bible does.​

It too has explanatory power: just like the BoM & parts of the OT There is no essential difference between “proving” the factual status of Hobbits by referring to ancient hobbit hole-like dwellings or proving that men & dinos existed by alluding to the flying creaures of the Ringwraiths; &, proving the factual status of the use of the compass in 600 B.C. by quoting the BoM, or quoting the Book of Abraham as proof of human sacrifice in Egypt.

Since both sets of stories are literary constructions, it would not be too difficult to join them up as a single narrative - the elephants of the BoM would then be the descendants of the mumaks in TLOTR.

 

[Jash]

I too have read the Book of Mormon and have to chuckle at these “problems” that “prove” it is false.

I believe measuring anything of God by the discoveries of man is the gateway to atheism.

There have been some items from the Book of Mormon presented here that I would like to clarify:

“daughters of Ishmael” as quoted in the Book of Mormon are the daughters of a man named Ishmael not daughters of a race.

The dates included in the Book of Mormon were not included in the original text but have been added as study helps to aid the reader understand it’s chronology.

The party that according to the Book of Mormon left Jerusalem around 600 B.C. consisted of two families, The family of Lehi and the family of Ishmael.

additional minor details:

There is record of honey bees and elephants in the Book of Mormon. However, this reference, found in the book of Ether refers to a time period a short 7 generations after the tower of Babel described in Genesis 11. For Comparison, Genesis 11 concludes in about 14 generations ending with Abraham. Note that in the life of these generations 3 key events occur:

1. Flood Ends
2. Languages Confounded at Babel
3. Earth divided

(Not necessarily in that order.)

My point is simply this:

We have very little evidence of anything from this time period. Just because we have not found something does not mean it did not exist. If one insists something must be discovered to be “true” then the Americas did not exist until 1492.

 

[Jerusha]

When we compare the cultural influence of the BOM to LOTR, we find that an idealistic fight against evil, similar to WWII, has a more positive influence than a boring story that includes and justifies blood-feud, killing your uncle to get the family bible from him because “God told me to”, a man who just knows that two of his sons are going to turn out bad because a dream told him so, racism, using Bible stories as new ideas for how to get power and personal gain, people who suffer deserve to suffer etc and etc. LDS people who are raised on such rubbish definitely don’t have very positive influence from it.

From that, we know that it is not scripture. (Even apart form the historicity issues.)

Spalding was an angel compared to Rigdon and his friends.

All the prattlings of preachers aren’t half as good for teaching as a good story. Why else do you think Jesus used parables so much?

 

[Jash]

LDS people who are raised on such rubbish definitely don’t have very positive influence from it.

Do you know any LDS people? Have you read the stories you refer to as rubbish? There’s a lot of good in the Book of Mormon.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I too have read the Book of Mormon and have to chuckle at these “problems” that “prove” it is false.

I believe measuring anything of God by the discoveries of man is the gateway to atheism.

only for mormons

My point is simply this:

We have very little evidence of anything from this time period. Just because we have not found something does not mean it did not exist. If one insists something must be discovered to be “true” then the Americas did not exist until 1492.

The Mideast has used the “Western Honeybee”, apis mellifera. Which is the honeybee that we all recognize as the honeybee. The middle east beekeeping practice kept their bees in tile cylinders that were stacked.

This particular sort of bee husbandry was first practiced by the Egyptians. The Egyptian practice spread into the Mideast and Mediterranean. Logically, this long tradition and practice is what one would expect to have been brought to the new world by people who originated in the Mideast. And we would expect to find this particular bee in the new world when Europeans arrived. Neither the bee or the form of beekeeping that goes with this type of bee were here until Europeans introduced them.

To your, ummm theory, of an early time. You have gone back now too far, before the Egyptians began the practice of beekeeping. So now, you are expecting people to believe that a practice existed before it was invented.

Nice try. But no go.

 

[Dchsknight]

Hi all,

I do have to admit there is a lot of good stuff in the BOM. The problem is this, an example: A little bit of oil if dropped in a navy ships water supply, will taint the whole lot of water. Just because there is a lot of good, does not excuse the fact, that there is oil in the water. all of it is tainted. If we go off the fact that JS wrote it, JS was a con artist, rapist, MUR.DURER , liar. if some one else wrote it , they are just as evil , Mainly because they are liars, Trying to deceive a whole nation and people is a lie and straight from the mouth of the devil.

Lets start with something people are forgetting. Why is that Mormons are so obsessed with s.e.x. IF you don’t believe me, Go ask a Mormon were Jesus came from. Ask them why a Mormon Man and Woman are married and SEALED in a Mormon Temple. and ask about Polygamous and Bigamy.

Next Go ask a Mormon what all the writing at the top of a Mormon temple means. You will find out that they don’t know, but Elders who have left the Occult, Called Mormonism, have translated it, usually it is Latin or Greek or something of that nature, and every word is in and blasphemy against God.

Next ask why they changed their minds about Black people. Because when Mormonism was witting the person who wrote it, said that black skin was the mark of someone remaining neutral in the war in heaven. They did not side with God or Satan and thus marked with Black Skin and cursed.

Ask why they say that Jesus and Satan are brothers, and then think that if they are brothers, that means that God had S.E.X with Mary not once but twice to produce Jesus and Satan.

Ask them then about the FACT, that they think that when they die, if they were Good mormons, they will be rewarded with a planet and their wife/wives that were sealed in the temple with them, get to be gods and make spirit children to populate and then they get to have their own personal Jesus come and save their world.

Now almost all mormons will deny all this because the mormons have rewritten all of their doctrine so many times, they don’t know what they Believe.

If you all dont believe me on this go watch the movie called “The God Makers” then come back re discuss about the Occult Mormonism. Mormonism is straight from the mouth and Hand of the Devil.

 

[LDSGuy]

Hi all,

I do have to admit there is a lot of good stuff in the BOM. The problem is this, an example: A little bit of oil if dropped in a navy ships water supply, will taint the whole lot of water. Just because there is a lot of good, does not excuse the fact, that there is oil in the water. all of it is tainted. If we go off the fact that JS wrote it, JS was a con artist, rapist, MUR.DURER , liar. if some one else wrote it , they are just as evil , Mainly because they are liars, Trying to deceive a whole nation and people is a lie and straight from the mouth of the devil.

Lets start with something people are forgetting. Why is that Mormons are so obsessed with s.e.x. IF you don’t believe me, Go ask a Mormon were Jesus came from. Ask them why a Mormon Man and Woman are married and SEALED in a Mormon Temple. and ask about Polygamous and Bigamy.

Next Go ask a Mormon what all the writing at the top of a Mormon temple means. You will find out that they don’t know, but Elders who have left the Occult, Called Mormonism, have translated it, usually it is Latin or Greek or something of that nature, and every word is in and blasphemy against God.

Next ask why they changed their minds about Black people. Because when Mormonism was witting the person who wrote it, said that black skin was the mark of someone remaining neutral in the war in heaven. They did not side with God or Satan and thus marked with Black Skin and cursed.

Ask why they say that Jesus and Satan are brothers, and then think that if they are brothers, that means that God had S.E.X with Mary not once but twice to produce Jesus and Satan.

Ask them then about the FACT, that they think that when they die, if they were Good mormons, they will be rewarded with a planet and their wife/wives that were sealed in the temple with them, get to be gods and make spirit children to populate and then they get to have their own personal Jesus come and save their world.

Now almost all mormons will deny all this because the mormons have rewritten all of their doctrine so many times, they don’t know what they Believe.

If you all dont believe me on this go watch the movie called “The God Makers” then come back re discuss about the Occult Mormonism. Mormonism is straight from the mouth and Hand of the Devil.

We’ve heard this all before. Please do some [non anti-Mormon website] research to find out what we actually believe. Could you please tell me what words on top of temples you’re referring to, and how they blaspheme God?

fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/

 

[RebeccaJ]

My point is simply this:

We have very little evidence of anything from this time period. Just because we have not found something does not mean it did not exist. If one insists something must be discovered to be “true” then the Americas did not exist until 1492.

And please, using this “logic”, we could say any number of things are true. Space aliens. Planets populated with big intelligent bugs. You only put your argument into the realm of fantasy.

 

[Dchsknight]

We’ve heard this all before. Please do some [non anti-Mormon website] research to find out what we actually believe. Could you please tell me what words on top of temples you’re referring to, and how they blaspheme God?

fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/

Actualy i got all my Information, From a Mormon. In college i was a roommate with a Mormon. He was a hardcore mormon too. He had just returned from his mission. He went to Church regularly and read his Sticks every day. If you have a problem with what I have said Go ask him, His name is Kevin Kendal and his brother, was becoming an elder last I heard.

He was the one that invited me to a temple, which i am not allowed to be in cause i am not Mormon, and he tried to convert me. That is when i saw the words at the top of the temple and he could not tell me what they were so i snuck a picture on my Camera Phone and took to the Latin Teacher at the College and he said it was in Greek. and he said they were Characters and phrases that invoked Demons, they were usualy used in Wicen and Witchcraft.

here is the question i asked him, that made him stop asking me to convert, because i am pretty zealous about what i believe and he thought I could do some Good for the mormons. Here is the question. Where is your Scripture? i dont mean the BOM, or the Pearl of Great Price or The Words of Wisdom. Where is your Scripture. Where did it come from? because we as Christians/Catholics, Have the Torah, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and at one point had the letters that the Apostles wrote. We also have the Gutenberg bible, which predates the BOM to the 1400s. So when a Mormon, can produce a really Picture, not a painting, of the Golden plates, and actualy Give me a Copy of the Golden Plates, Mormons are of the Devil. BECAUSE the bible said if any one comes to you with another Gospel he is not of God. Mormons added another Gospel with the BOM.

I will forever follow a Book and Leaders that go straight back to Jesus himself. Because here is why, Gamaleiel, a Pharasee said to his fellow men, Do not touch these men( refering to the Apostles). Do you remember when a man came up and said he was something, He died and his followers scattered, and then he gave another example. Then he said, leave them alone, because if it is of men it will die an fail, if it is of God, you should not harm them lest you be found fighting against God. BOM was written by a man not God, Mormonism will fail and die and burn in hell. the Bible was written and inspired by God himself. the Bible will never Fail. Neither will the Church, If christ does not come back in 1000 years the Catholic Church will still be here in some fashion weathering the time. Because Jesus said the Church would never die. And there is a funny thing about what Jesus said, Turns out he is always right.

 

[LDSGuy]

Actualy i got all my Information, From a Mormon. In college i was a roommate with a Mormon. He was a hardcore mormon too. He had just returned from his mission. He went to Church regularly and read his Sticks every day. If you have a problem with what I have said Go ask him, His name is Kevin Kendal and his brother, was becoming an elder last I heard.

He was the one that invited me to a temple, which i am not allowed to be in cause i am not Mormon, and he tried to convert me. That is when i saw the words at the top of the temple and he could not tell me what they were so i snuck a picture on my Camera Phone and took to the Latin Teacher at the College and he said it was in Greek. and he said they were Characters and phrases that invoked Demons, they were usualy used in Wicen and Witchcraft.

here is the question i asked him, that made him stop asking me to convert, because i am pretty zealous about what i believe and he thought I could do some Good for the mormons. Here is the question. Where is your Scripture? i dont mean the BOM, or the Pearl of Great Price or The Words of Wisdom. Where is your Scripture. Where did it come from? because we as Christians/Catholics, Have the Torah, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and at one point had the letters that the Apostles wrote. We also have the Gutenberg bible, which predates the BOM to the 1400s. So when a Mormon, can produce a really Picture, not a painting, of the Golden plates, and actualy Give me a Copy of the Golden Plates, Mormons are of the Devil. BECAUSE the bible said if any one comes to you with another Gospel he is not of God. Mormons added another Gospel with the BOM.

I will forever follow a Book and Leaders that go straight back to Jesus himself. Because here is why, Gamaleiel, a Pharasee said to his fellow men, Do not touch these men( refering to the Apostles). Do you remember when a man came up and said he was something, He died and his followers scattered, and then he gave another example. Then he said, leave them alone, because if it is of men it will die an fail, if it is of God, you should not harm them lest you be found fighting against God. BOM was written by a man not God, Mormonism will fail and die and burn in hell. the Bible was written and inspired by God himself. the Bible will never Fail. Neither will the Church, If christ does not come back in 1000 years the Catholic Church will still be here in some fashion weathering the time. Because Jesus said the Church would never die. And there is a funny thing about what Jesus said, Turns out he is always right.

Your post has a slight Protestant/sola scriptura tone to it, at least that’s what it sounds like to me. Anyway, which temple was this? Do you have these phrases that invoke demons and are also used in Wicca and Witchcraft? Why would he invite you to the temple when, if he was an actual LDS, he knew that you wouldn’t be able to enter? Unless he wanted you to just see it or maybe the visitor’s center…

The only words I know of on top of all temples are “House of the Lord”, “Holiness to the Lord”.

 

[PaulDupre]

Ask why they say that Jesus and Satan are brothers, and then think that if they are brothers, that means that God had S.E.X with Mary not once but twice to produce Jesus and Satan.

You are a bit off here. Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers in the same sense that they believe Jesus is our brother - they believe that all of us were “born” in heaven as spirit beings with spirit bodies as a result of conjugal relations between the Mormon “heavenly father” and his goddess wives, and that Jesus was the first-born spirit-child of heavenly father. The Mormon Jesus is no different from us, just older. When Mormon gods have sex, they produce spirit babies, not physical babies. Those spirit children must come to earth to get physical bodies.

Earlier Mormon prophets taught that the Mormon heavenly father came to earth and had sex with the Blessed Virgin to produce the human body of Jesus. Lucifer has never been born into a physical body and never will be.

Current Mormon leaders have distanced themselves from this early teaching (that heavenly father had sex with Mary), so as not to offend potential converts. Some Mormons still believe it, others do not; very few will admit to non-Mormons that they believe it. The missionaries taught it to me when I was an investigator (in 1975). Belief in this early teaching is not currently encouraged nor required. Many young Mormons are not even aware that this was ever taught.

 

[Jash]

We’ve heard this all before. Please do some [non anti-Mormon website] research to find out what we actually believe. Could you please tell me what words on top of temples you’re referring to, and how they blaspheme God?

fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/

Amen.