WHICH then leads to this, If Jesus claimed this, And he was not God, and knew it, He is aliar and will be damned to hell.Also JS can not be right or Accurate, because of his description of God. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the one who sent me, That means that God and Jesus, Same person.
when the Pharisees asked Jesus, who he was if he was the messiah the son of the Blessed one, He answered “I AM…” Not i am he, or Yeah that is me, “I AM…” which is exactly how God Identified himself to the Jews in the OT, that is why The HP tore his clothes when he heard this, To him this was Blaphsmey. God and Jesus are the same person.
What it really is is relativism. You don’t have guilt feelings if you don’t murder a baby. The circumstances under which the baby was conceived have nothing to do with whether or not you are taking a life. If the baby was conceived by rape or incest you are still committing murder if you kill an unborn child. If your health might be threatened you are still killing an unborn child if you have an abortion. I have some sympathy with allowing abortion in cases where the life of the mother is threatened, but that is almost never the case. You really don’t know beforehand if the mother would die if she didn’t have an abortion.BartBurk,
Thanks for the link. I have no problem with the following summary quote from it:
“The official stance of the LDS Church reflects a relatively liberal position within the pro-life movement. It allows abortion if the woman’s life or health is threatened, if the pregnancy was the result of rape or incest or if the fetus is severely malformed and would not live long after birth.”
Remember, as I said before, we believe very strongly in personal revelation. A prospective mother in one of the circumstances described above, can pray and seek counsel and identify within her own heart, what is best for herself and her continued happiness and well-being. It would be a very difficult decision in any case, but for any leadership of any church to infringe on the right of a mother to be protective of her own health, is difficult for me to swallow as being an inspired doctrine. God wants our happiness and good health, not guilt feelings for the rest of our lives.
I’ll respond about the hat and the seer stone. If you ever look at an LCD screen by candle light or sunlight, you will notice a glare on the screen. Why would a person use a hat with a hole in it to shield the extraneous light? So they could see the words on the LCD screen!Smith produced most of the “translation” not by reading the plates through the Urim and Thummim (described as a pair of sacred spectacles), but by gazing at the same “seer stone” he had used for treasure hunting. He would place the stone into his hat, and then cover his face with it. For much of the time he was dictating, the gold plates were not even present, but in a hiding place.
Jesus was Jehovah, and He knew it, so He didn’t hesitate to say so. He was the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, the One who appeared to Moses.Also JS can not be right or Accurate, because of his description of God. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the one who sent me, That means that God and Jesus, Same person.
when the Pharisees asked Jesus, who he was if he was the messiah the son of the Blessed one, He answered “I AM…” Not i am he, or Yeah that is me, “I AM…” which is exactly how God Identified himself to the Jews in the OT, that is why The HP tore his clothes when he heard this, To him this was Blaphsmey. God and Jesus are the same person.
Yet The bible says if any one comes to you with another Gospel he is not of God? what about that? What about the Fact that the events and such in the BOM are wrong, When the people who wrote the OT and NT gave evidence of the time and events happening around them to give their words credit, What is stated in the BOM is all wrong.I’ll respond about the hat and the seer stone. If you ever look at an LCD screen by candle light or sunlight, you will notice a glare on the screen. Why would a person use a hat with a hole in it to shield the extraneous light? So they could see the words on the LCD screen!
The very same principle holds here. The description actually strengthens the veracity of the explanation of how Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon to his scribes. He needed to see the “seer stone” or earlier the Urim and Thummim clearly, without reflective glare.
As to the plates themselves, what needed to happen is that those prophets from ancient American lands needed to be able to communicate their message to us in these last days. The Book of Mormon is for us. It is for you. It is for me. Having communicated their message through the medium of writing in the character language they used, someone was needed who had the faith and desire to either read the writing or to receive the message by some other inspired way.
Joseph Smith at first “read” the writing using a Urim and Thummim; then later when he had to keep the plates hidden he was allowed by the Spirit and by his own faith and desire, and the fact that those earlier prophets had had the faith to write and preserve their records knowing we would need the writings for our benefit, to continue the translating process (a process of dictation without stopping to make changes or to go back and have what he had dictated read back to him–remarkable!). He had tenacious faith and determination to complete the work of getting this message from ancient prophets to us! It was a tangible process, yet now here we are without proof and the only proof we can get and rely on is to read the words for ourselves and decide for ourselves if they are true. I testify with sure knowledge that they are true. They are a precious second witness of the Lord, Jesus Christ and the covenants and promises of His gospel.
Then why would he respond with “I AM” that is what GOD identified him self as, Why did he answer the same way that God did, if he was not the same Personage as God. That would make him a liar.Jesus was Jehovah, and He knew it, so He didn’t hesitate to say so. He was the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, the One who appeared to Moses.
Yet, He looks like His Father. He also feels the same love for us that the Father feels, perfect love. To see Jesus was to “see” the Father because they looked the same, someone with flesh and bones if He were to appear to a person. That is what it is saying.
What about the fact that the Urim and Thummin were Jewish Cards in the Ephod, used to Cast lots, What about that, what about JS stealing this and twisting to fit The BOM.I’ll respond about the hat and the seer stone. If you ever look at an LCD screen by candle light or sunlight, you will notice a glare on the screen. Why would a person use a hat with a hole in it to shield the extraneous light? So they could see the words on the LCD screen!
The very same principle holds here. The description actually strengthens the veracity of the explanation of how Joseph dictated the Book of Mormon to his scribes. He needed to see the “seer stone” or earlier the Urim and Thummim clearly, without reflective glare.
As to the plates themselves, what needed to happen is that those prophets from ancient American lands needed to be able to communicate their message to us in these last days. The Book of Mormon is for us. It is for you. It is for me. Having communicated their message through the medium of writing in the character language they used, someone was needed who had the faith and desire to either read the writing or to receive the message by some other inspired way.
Joseph Smith at first “read” the writing using a Urim and Thummim; then later when he had to keep the plates hidden he was allowed by the Spirit and by his own faith and desire, and the fact that those earlier prophets had had the faith to write and preserve their records knowing we would need the writings for our benefit, to continue the translating process (a process of dictation without stopping to make changes or to go back and have what he had dictated read back to him–remarkable!). He had tenacious faith and determination to complete the work of getting this message from ancient prophets to us! It was a tangible process, yet now here we are without proof and the only proof we can get and rely on is to read the words for ourselves and decide for ourselves if they are true. I testify with sure knowledge that they are true. They are a precious second witness of the Lord, Jesus Christ and the covenants and promises of His gospel.
Pardon me, but evidently you haven’t read about how the English Bible came to be translated and printed, and about the martyrs who suffered and died in the process. Research William Tyndale. God raised him up to do what he did, but don’t think for a minute that his work was protected by the Catholic church at the time.Ok, First off, my Name means Desert Christian High School,( my High School) Knight( The Mascot) I kind of Like Dark Knight, but if you want to compare, Compare me to the Black Knight. Or Robin Hood, Or Willam Wallace, or Aurther Himself.
Second, Why would you hide something if, it was from God. Like the Pharisee Gamaliel said, If it is From God, it will Stand forever, if it is of men it will fall. Next, Why does JS have different Accounts, about the Vision. In a court of Law if the Witness gives conflicting Views he is throw out and charged on Perjury. God’s word Never changed. His words, The bible, which was complied by the Church and Inspired in the Compilation and Inspired by God and written by the men who Personally knew God and Jesus, Has never once Changed. It has Survived for over 2000 years, starting on material that is perishable till now with the printing press and internet. You have no scripture, it was taken by angels to heaven. Jesus Said I would never leave you nor forsake you, why would he take his word from you if he said he would never leave you nor forsake, Because John 1:1 …And the Word was God… IF that is the case, then Jesus is the word, and that means that the word would never leave, If that is the case then Jesus is a liar and none of us should follow, mormonism, catholicism, Christianity or anything like it.
You missed my point. Jesus was I Am. I Am was Jehovah.Then why would he respond with “I AM” that is what GOD identified him self as, Why did he answer the same way that God did, if he was not the same Personage as God. That would make him a liar.
Actualy sir i have taken courses on the bible and how it came about, I dont care about the english bible it was made by a pompus king, named James and screwed it all up for us all. I am talking about the Real OT and NT written in Hebrew and Greek. That is what is protected and that is what is the Word of God. I have an English bible, because i cant read Hebrew or Greek, if i had the time and money to Learn Hebrew and Greek, you can bet your sweet Bippy i would have a hebrew OT and a Greek NT.Pardon me, but evidently you haven’t read about how the English Bible came to be translated and printed, and about the martyrs who suffered and died in the process. Research William Tyndale. God raised him up to do what he did, but don’t think for a minute that his work was protected by the Catholic church at the time.
You missed my point about the Book of Mormon. Why would God give you or me physical proof? That defeats His purpose. This life is a test of our faith and a test of our ability to gain correct knowledge and wisdom through our desires for those things. God would not defeat His own purposes by giving physical evidence just to gain converts. Absolutely not.
The prophet Nehemiah wrote:What about the fact that the Urim and Thummin were Jewish Cards in the Ephod, used to Cast lots, What about that, what about JS stealing this and twisting to fit The BOM.
“Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private’ revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium [collective sense of the faithful] knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.** Christian faith cannot accept ‘revelations’ that claim to surpass or correct the revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such ‘revelations’”** (Catechism of the Catholic Church 67).I don’t take “this doctrine from the revelations of Joseph Smith.” I take this doctrine from personal revelation that I know to be true. I have no question about it. That is our point. God will reveal His doctrine to each and every person who asks in faith, nothing doubting, if they are willing to live by the doctrine. (He would not reveal doctrine to condemn us, only to lift us and bring us happiness and joy.)
God’s word and what God said Automatically trumps anything you say, because God is perfect and can not lie, and thus, what God says is the only thing that can be fully trusted, thus, His word would have never left this earth, because he said it never would. There fore I will trust what God says over any mormon, Thus If God said he would never leave us, then your Golden Plates should still be here, If they are not then they never existed. And JS is a liar and will be damned.Actualy sir i have taken courses on the bible and how it came about, I dont care about the english bible it was made by a pompus king, named James and screwed it all up for us all. I am talking about the Real OT and NT written in Hebrew and Greek. That is what is protected and that is what is the Word of God. I have an English bible, because i cant read Hebrew or Greek, if i had the time and money to Learn Hebrew and Greek, you can bet your sweet Bippy i would have a hebrew OT and a Greek NT.
And no i did not miss your point. The bible states and let me copy it for you:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
God said i would never leave nor forsake as well, to Joshua and Jesus said to his apostles, so Since God and Jesus are the same person, and since the word was with and is God, then the word would have never left us. Because God said he would never leave us, and thus, if the word did leave like your Plates, then God is a liar and none of us should ever follow any form of Christianity. i am not saying that God has to give us evidence quite the opposite, You are missing the point that God said he would never leave us.
The BOM contains the same gospel as the Bible. The Nicene creed and the other creeds are not from the Bible, so they are actually more along the lines of “another Gospel”. (That will make you choke. Sorry.) Words mean what they say. Sometimes there is symbolism involved in how the Bible is written, but let’s be clear that the Book of Mormon is not “another Gospel”–it offers the same message as the Bible, through the same instrumentality, which is that “holy men of God” were “moved upon by the Holy Ghost”.Yet The bible says if any one comes to you with another Gospel he is not of God? what about that? What about the Fact that the events and such in the BOM are wrong, When the people who wrote the OT and NT gave evidence of the time and events happening around them to give their words credit, What is stated in the BOM is all wrong.
OK, so when I was told Catholics receive personal revelation, I was told wrong. I thought so…“Throughout the ages, there have been so-called ‘private’ revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium [collective sense of the faithful] knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.** Christian faith cannot accept ‘revelations’ that claim to surpass or correct the revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such ‘revelations’”** (Catechism of the Catholic Church 67).
catholic.com/library/Private_Revelation.asp
No no sir, you are mistaken on what you think is another Gospel, We have 4 gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. That is it. No more no less. The BOM is ANOTHER Account of Jesus and his work IE another Gospel. There are not 5 Gospels, Only Four, Matthew Mark luke John.The BOM contains the same gospel as the Bible. The Nicene creed and the other creeds are not from the Bible, so they are actually more along the lines of “another Gospel”. (That will make you choke. Sorry.) Words mean what they say. Sometimes there is symbolism involved in how the Bible is written, but let’s be clear that the Book of Mormon is not “another Gospel”–it offers the same message as the Bible, through the same instrumentality, which is that “holy men of God” were “moved upon by the Holy Ghost”.
Paying a priest to gain forgiveness is definitely “another Gospel”. It is a false practice.
And dont you dare ever call me a young man ever again and act like you know better then me or act like you are my Father. Dont even for one moment act like like you know me. You are a dirty rotten sinner just like me and You are going to He.ll with out Jesus and his church just like me. Except I have Jesus and his Church.The prophet Nehemiah wrote:
“63 ¶ And of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai, which took one of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite to wife, and was called after their name.
64 These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
65 And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim.”
The Urim and Thummim had several different purposes, and it appears there may have been more than one. It is associated with sacred things, “most holy things” of God. It is not to be trifled with, but for you to say Joseph “stole” the idea of it seems absurd to me. 'Course, you’re merely a youth. There is much to learn. Just be prepared to change some of your pre-conceptions as you go along, young man.
coward, some one challenged you and you folded, Coward.This is no longer worth my time. Bye, all.