You know, there might indeed be more Catholic priests if marriage was allowed, but they would all have less moral authority than they do now. You know that a man who is willing to give up everything for the glory of God is committed to it. That is extremely powerful.
Where do you get the Idea that the Church forbids people to marry? The Church does no such thing. She only says that you cannot marry AND be a priest (In the Latin Rite of The Church. So one must follow that call which to which Christ is drawing them The Priesthood (celibate) or marriage (not celibate); Holy Orders or Holy Matrimony.It sounds to me that Paul is making a universal declaration regarding the sinful nature of preventing people from marrying:The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry…
(1 Timothy 4:1-3)
When i consider who it is that forbids people to marry–the Magisterium, Bishops, and even the Pope, my mouth drops to the floor! What does he say of such people? He calls them those who:
- abandon the faith
- follow deceiving spirits
- advocate things taught by demons
- have their consciences seared with a hot iron
If he spoke publicly this way of the Pope today, would he not be removed from the office of Apostle? Would he not even risk excommunication? Be completely sincere with me Pax, and tell me what you truly think.
Confused, I amSo silly a kid can understand it. So deep a theologian can drown in it!
Eucharisted, do you believe a picture is worth a thousand words?
6 But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. 7 For I would that all men were even as myself:It sounds to me that** Paul is making a universal declaration **regarding the sinful nature of preventing people from marrying:The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry…
(1 Timothy 4:1-3)
When i consider who it is that forbids people to marry–the Magisterium, Bishops, and even the Pope, my mouth drops to the floor! What does he say of such people? He calls them those who:
- abandon the faith
- follow deceiving spirits
- advocate things taught by demons
- have their consciences seared with a hot iron
If he spoke publicly this way of the Pope today, would he not be removed from the office of Apostle? Would he not even risk excommunication? Be completely sincere with me Pax, and tell me what you truly think.
Why settle for second best;
I’m often the same, but i smile and call it wonder!Confused, I am
Dear Soc,
Those individual Evangelicals followed, by their private judgments on what the Bible teaches and what are the essentials, the example set by the Reformers.
IMHO the decision to reject circumcision was taken by the ruling authority of the Church, as a development founded on Sacred Tradition. You may note the decision was not left to private judgments. A Church Council authoritatively decided, setting a paradigm for following Councils.
The pericope is not about Christians testing an Apostle in the light of the (Christian) Bible. We’re speaking about jews ( so as the Thessalonians about whom is said) who, in order to decide whether accepting Paul and his message ( ie Jesus’ message) examined the Tanach.. Had they concluded that everything was in the Tanach, they would not have accepted the new message. ) the dialog on what each considers essential.
. Next week anyway I’ll be back home to my usual connection…
It isn’t that the words are ambiguous as much as it is that some people will do the things described by Paul and Peter in twisting the scriptures. It isn’t Jesus…it’s sinfulness and weakness of men. No matter how things were worded, there would be those that would be twisting the words and leading others astray. This is easily seen in your own experience where you find Trinitarian doctrine unmistakeable in scripture where others do not.
Priests are certainly people. But they are people who choose a different path.Priests are not people, too?
No, I am saying that if a person is willing to give up everything for the glory of God, you know he is very serious about it. This is not to say that a married man can’t be serous about God as well (I am married), But think about your initial premise: " there would be more priest if they could be married." That means what you want to add is people who put marriage above serving God as a priest… Those people just don’t have the moral authority (myself included) that the celibate priest has. He has given up EVERYTHING to serve his flock. That deserves tremendous respect.Are you saying that being married makes someone less moral?
Loved his *Confessions! * And eating pizza was a metaphor.Dear Soc,
nice to see Augustine quoted !
I guess one should go out for a pizza together after any charitable debate with anybody.
They’d not call it a super-denomination, but a super (or universal) Church. Some call it the true catholic Church, making a point that catholic is spelled with a small c. Catholics, they’d say, are of a different Church, and a different religion. They have a different gospel, and Paul strongly advises us:As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
If by Magisterium you mean teachers of the Bible, i’d say yes. They would not call it private judgment, as though a conflicting judgment made by someone would be just as valid. They’d call it a correct judgment, based on a correct understanding of the biblical text.This sounds like a …magisterium, doesn’t it ? IMHO any religious body needs one, of some sort. The funny thing is that these denominations were built by extolling private judgment against …the magisteriums of their mother communities. Denominations are born on the principle of private judgment, rejectinjg magisterium, then are governed by magisteriums. Or so it seems.
I guess the point you appear to be implying is that a person, apart from the Magisterium, is incapable of making a correct judgment as to the truth that Sacred Scripture teaches. Is this your second point?
They’d say by the authority of Christ, as His will is revealed in the biblical text. They’d quote such passages as this:In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
P7:
'Kay. So what questions do you have?I’m often the same, but i smile and call it wonder!
It’s just a question i use as a conversation starter.
Seems i cannot make a private–, err, sorry! PUBLIC judgment about your statement until i hear your definition of the term.
