Progressive Catholics say reform must begin with Church governance
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Lucky7
Guest
Yes, because democracy works so well.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
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empacae
Guest
Geeze-o! There is no such thing as progressive Catholics. There is orthodoxy and there is heresy. This is more wishful thinking in the minds of liberals, and the Toronto Star is their mouth piece. This isn’t even a news story. It’s an Op-Ed which is littered several times a week throughout this rag.
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k5thbeatle
Guest
Yes, because democracy works so well.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
AMEN!
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PaulinePresbytr
Guest
Yes, because democracy works so well.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
Federal Republics work fine (is the best system) for civil government, but civil governments are not infallible magesteriums. The Church does not need a different form of government, this one has worked literally perfectly for the past 2000 years
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The_Bucket
Guest
Church governance does need to change, but not in the way these “progressives” talk about. Governance needs to be less focused on saving face in the light of grave sins and more about serving the rank-and-file. The Church’s doctrine may be perfect but the way it has been governed has been decidedly imperfect and I think recent scandals is proof positive of that. We need major institutional reform that allows for accusations of abuse to be brought to the proper ecclesiastical and civil authorities as soon as they are leveled. The fact that there is grave sin even in the higher levels of the clergy should not shake anyone’s faith. I believe faith would be restored if those at the highest level had absolutely zero tolerance for that behavior and were quite willing to shine the spotlight on it.
Christ said for us to accuse ourselves first and thus we must. That goes for the institution as well. The doctrine cannot and should not be changed. The relative transparency of the Church, however, must or we will see further culling of the ranks and disheartening of the faithful.
Christ said for us to accuse ourselves first and thus we must. That goes for the institution as well. The doctrine cannot and should not be changed. The relative transparency of the Church, however, must or we will see further culling of the ranks and disheartening of the faithful.
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buffalo
Guest
But they are progressive!Yes, because democracy works so well.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
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twopekinguys
Guest
When did we go from “Cafeteria Catholics” to “Progressive Catholics”.
It is still being selfish and saying I want my way, no matter which PC term the want to use to describe themselves.
Just sayin…
It is still being selfish and saying I want my way, no matter which PC term the want to use to describe themselves.
Just sayin…
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GWright
Guest
More to the point, I think “progressive” Catholics need to accept that they are not really Catholics at all - but simply people who “play at Catholics” - and should either review their faulty opinions or leave.Yes, because democracy works so well.
For the thousandth time, the Church is not the US government. Laws do not change based upon public opinion.
Progressive Catholics need to accept that.
Integrity is a good thing.
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BigBlueCane
Guest
And who are you to say who is truly catholic or not? I’m positive that if we look into your life there are many things about you that isn’t “catholic” no matter how many times you go to church.
Supporting a more open church, open in dialogue and less dictatorial is heresy? Really? I didn’t know the root of being a catholic is supporting the bureacracy of the church.
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Lucky7
Guest
Don;t get confused bewteen sinfulness and dissent. The former is most definitely Catholic; the latter is not.
These Catholics are the latter and they want open dialogue so that they can change doctrine.
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Lucky7
Guest
This I can get on board with…
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mburn16
Guest
If you reject concrete church teachings on things like contraception, homosexuality, etc…then no, you are not truly Catholic, you are picking and choosing those things convenient to you.
Now, perhaps there is some room for reform, in as much as the church hierarchy could make itself more available to your average layman in the pews for a dialogue on, for example, evangelical outreach in the West.
But the Church is not a democracy, and morality is not up for debate. If someone doesn’t like the church’s view on marriage or life or condoms, the problem is with the “someone”, not wiht the church. The Pope is, in fact, an elected position…but to the role of successor of St. Peter, the ultimate authority on matters.
Would you really prefer to see us like the dying brands of high church Protestantism? The congregations that, the more they reach out to dilute Christian moral teachings, the more people they lose? Liberalization is generally a one-way street: downward. If today the church doesn’t need to teach on morality, then tomorrow I don’t need to go to church to hear what they are saying. And perhaps next week, I don’t need to worry about the question of God at all.
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Sheadad
Guest
The root of being Catholic is following the teachings of the Church, which is advanced by the Magisterium, whom you could define if you like as the bureacracy. It really confuses people in today’s world because we have so much opportunity in our own cultures to contribute and vote and make our voices heard. We have that right in a democracy to have our voice represented by elected officials.
On the other hand, in the Kingdom of God, in the realm of the world of His Church, we don’t have that ability in the same sense. It doesn’t actually make sense when you think about it that we should. We are fallen creatures prone to being mistaken and thinking wrongly, perhaps not being fully informed. It takes a long, long time to understand truths handed down through the ages. It gives me a great respect for Christ that he knew and taught these things fast and perfectly. So no, in humility and respect for the Lord himself, we need to submit to His teachings and understand that we don’t hold all the answers within us, no matter how much we think we’re right.
Heresy, particularly that which has been brought to the forefront in light of the Pope’s resignation, is quite sad. I heard a blub on CNN the day of the resignation by a Nun in New York saying that she was looking forward to a Pope that would accomodate more of the modern thinking for today’s needs and so on… Blah blah blah… What a shame. This always helps me to call to mind a time for prayer for all the faithful, particularly those dissenting from the Church, to come to the truth. Man it really boils down to humility and trust.
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Lucky7
Guest
THe other thing that bugs me about this question is that it is never directed at the “progressive” Catholics. Who are they to tell me and the Church what should or should not be Catholic?
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_Abyssinia
Guest
Where is progressive Catholic in Church teaching? You are either a Catholic or not and advocating womens ordination and contraception is not Catholic
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3DOCTORS
Guest
Same old same old.
Crickets, chirp on.
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mountee
Guest
It is easy to know who is Catholic and who is not. You support the Truths of the Church, written in black and white for all to see, or you don’t. You want to be pro-choice, you are not Catholic. You want to support gay marriage, you are not Catholic. It isn’t a judgement call or a lack of a more open Church, it is a simple question of being a member of a Church which has certain rules that you must follow or you sin. It has nothing to do with how many times you go to Church but supporting and following the rules which may seem like supporting a bureaucracy to you, but it’s more than that, it is the foundation of what a Catholic is and believes. And, I am sure that over my 62 yearsI have done man things that aren’t Catholic but I assure you I have confessed and repented whenever I have made those mistakes and will into the future.
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mountee
Guest
Amen.
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mountee
Guest
You have my complete agreement.
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