Project for Catholics- Explain these sacramentals

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JSmitty2005 said:
“So, leaving them again,
he went away and
prayed for the third time,
saying the same words.”

(Matthew 26:44)

:hmmm:

I’m sorry. I said before that Jesus prayed repetitiously in the desert, but I was mistaken. This was the verse I was thinking of and it is right before His passion. I apologize for the misinformation.
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vain:Lacking substance or worth
Christ’s prayer to our father in which your refering is this–
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Doesn’t sound vain to me.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
vain:Lacking substance or worth
Christ’s prayer to our father in which your refering is this–
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Doesn’t sound vain to me.
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And that is the key- not repetitious prayer, but rather, vain repetitious prayer like the pagans engage in. MFM- let me ask you, do you often pray for the same things, only using different word? Such as, “Lord bless me and my family, keep them safe” etc., etc.? I would suggest that if you pray in substance for something more than one time, even using different words, that is repetitious prayer. Same thing with praise- praising God is always repetitious- even though you may use different words the substance of the prayer is the same- praise.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
vain:Lacking substance or worth
Christ’s prayer to our father in which your refering is this–
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Doesn’t sound vain to me.
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Of course it’s not vain! That’s not the point I was trying to make. The passage shows that God is not opposed to repetitious prayer, but He is opposed to vain prayer. I think that we are in agreement. Are we not?
 
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myfavoritmartin:
vain:Lacking substance or worth
Christ’s prayer to our father in which your refering is this–
and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Doesn’t sound vain to me.
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And neither does: "Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee (Lk. 1:28). Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (Lk 1:42). How in the world could reciting, in meditative prayer, passages from the Bible be “lacking in substance?”

Have you ever meditated on these verses? Do you know the depth of what they mean in the full context of the Gospel? That’s what we’re contemplating when we recite these words. Still sound vain to you?
 
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St.Eric:
And that is the key- not repetitious prayer, but rather, vain repetitious prayer like the pagans engage in. MFM- let me ask you, do you often pray for the same things, only using different word? Such as, “Lord bless me and my family, keep them safe” etc., etc.? I would suggest that if you pray in substance for something more than one time, even using different words, that is repetitious prayer. Same thing with praise- praising God is always repetitious- even though you may use different words the substance of the prayer is the same- praise.
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I AGREE ON THIS.
BUT THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE ROSARY PRAYERS DOESNT SIT WELL WITH ME AND I AM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SENTENCE…Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. I REALIZE THAT IS A DIFFRENT SUBJECT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS GOING AGAINST CHRISTS COMMANDS, NOT ONE I AM COMFORTABLE WITH ALLOWING MY SON TO PRAY. IT VAGUELY COULD BE CONSIDERED GRAVEN IMAGE, IT VAGUELY COULD BE COSIDERED OPPOSING EXODUS 20:4-5 AS WELL AS VAIN REPETITION. ITS LIL CLOSE ON THOSE THREE POINTS.
 
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Della:
And neither does: "Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee (Lk. 1:28). Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (Lk 1:42). How in the world could reciting, in meditative prayer, passages from the Bible be “lacking in substance?”

Have you ever meditated on these verses? Do you know the depth of what they mean in the full context of the Gospel? That’s what we’re contemplating when we recite these words. Still sound vain to you?
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READ THE NEXT VERSE CHRIST REBUKED THIS PERSON AND SAID RATHER ARE THOSE WHO KEEP THE WORD OF THE LORD
 
MFM, can you please lay off the caps? :o It’s giving me a headache.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
BUT THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE ROSARY PRAYERS DOESNT SIT WELL WITH ME
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Whether it sits well with you is irrelevant. We’ve already established that it sits well with God. That’s all that matters. 👍
 
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myfavoritmartin:
IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS GOING AGAINST CHRISTS COMMANDS
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Wrong. But you could be right if you omitted some words:

IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS…CHRIST… 😃
 
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Della:
blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (Lk 1:42).
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when you consider the word of god in its entirety and see how later in the book of Luke not an Angel but rather a human says the same thing Christ responds in this manner.

But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Luke 11:27-28
 
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myfavoritmartin:
when you consider the word of god in its entirety and see how later in the book of Luke not an Angel but rather a human says the same thing Christ responds in this manner.

But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Luke 11:27-28
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Okay, so here’s what it says in Luke 11:27-28

While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed.” He replied, “Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

On the surface it may appear as though Jesus was rebuking the woman for Marian devotion, but this is hardly the case. The woman was complimenting Christ! It’s the same as saying, “blessed is the ground that you walk on” or something similar. With that in mind, it’s not surprising that Our Lord, being humble as He is replied that we should “hear the word of God and observe it.”

See also:

scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html#the_bvm-X
 
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myfavoritmartin:
I AGREE ON THIS.
BUT THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE ROSARY PRAYERS DOESNT SIT WELL WITH ME AND I AM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SENTENCE…Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. I REALIZE THAT IS A DIFFRENT SUBJECT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS GOING AGAINST CHRISTS COMMANDS, NOT ONE I AM COMFORTABLE WITH ALLOWING MY SON TO PRAY. IT VAGUELY COULD BE CONSIDERED GRAVEN IMAGE, IT VAGUELY COULD BE COSIDERED OPPOSING EXODUS 20:4-5 AS WELL AS VAIN REPETITION. ITS LIL CLOSE ON THOSE THREE POINTS.
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The assumption being that the Church isn’t aware of any pitfalls in such prayers and devotions. I assure you it is well aware of everything and knows the meaning of the verses/passages you cite. If I thought for one single instant that the Church was wrong or that I was in any way committing idolatry, I’d never pray a rosary again. But, I know I’m not.

You are simply wrong/misinformed as to what Catholics mean and what they are doing when we pray the prayers of the rosary. Why you won’t read up on it and/or take our word for it is your business, however. We can’t convince you of anything. All we can do is lay the truth before you and pray.

(And please don’t use all caps to be emphatic. Just say what you want to say in normal script and bold or italicize here and there, if you want to. All caps is considered shouting, and we don’t need you to shout at us to get your point(s). Thanks. :tiphat:)
 
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JSmitty2005:
Whether it sits well with you is irrelevant. We’ve already established that it sits well with God. That’s all that matters. 👍
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How is that?
With an apparition?
Could not satan be spiteful and kniving (spelling?) to insight a vision?.
 
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Della:
(And please don’t use all caps to be emphatic. Just say what you want to say in normal script and bold or italicize here and there, if you want to. All caps is considered shouting, and we don’t need you to shout at us to get your point(s). Thanks. :tiphat:)
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Sorry, It wasn’t intentional or anger just laziness.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
I AGREE ON THIS.
BUT THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE ROSARY PRAYERS DOESNT SIT WELL WITH ME AND I AM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SENTENCE…Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. I REALIZE THAT IS A DIFFRENT SUBJECT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS GOING AGAINST CHRISTS COMMANDS, NOT ONE I AM COMFORTABLE WITH ALLOWING MY SON TO PRAY. IT VAGUELY COULD BE CONSIDERED GRAVEN IMAGE, IT VAGUELY COULD BE COSIDERED OPPOSING EXODUS 20:4-5 AS WELL AS VAIN REPETITION. ITS LIL CLOSE ON THOSE THREE POINTS.
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Jesus himself must have prayed the way all orthodox Jewish men do. That means that he would have said a series of nonspontenous prayers three times a day. This could have been considered repetitious.

If you notice in the verse on repetitive prayers he is addressing the gentiles not Jewish people. If it was merely a series of set prayers that bothered him, he would have spoken of his own people’s religious practices.

I have a Strong Concordance that gives one of the translations for repetitious as babbling. I have always wondered if Jesus was referring to the Oracles who did infact speak in unknown languages.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
when you consider the word of god in its entirety and see how later in the book of Luke not an Angel but rather a human says the same thing Christ responds in this manner.

But he said, Yea rather, blessed [are] they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Luke 11:27-28
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So, does that make the passage in Luke 1 wrong? Hardly that!

No. As JSmitty explains, the woman was praising Jesus, not Mary. Indeed, Mary, to this anonymous woman, is seen only as a vessel and nothing more. Sounds Protestant, doesn’t it? But, Jesus rebukes this idea by saying of Mary, his Mother, that she is blessed because she is one who “hear the word of God and keep it.” Mary was not just a vessel with no say over anything. She gave her consent with her free will in obedience to God’s word, which is what Jesus is referring to here.
 
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myfavoritmartin:
I get that, so in your opinion please provide to me an example of any church using a vain repetitious prayer.
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Why? I think that Jesus was warning against the practice of pagans not His followers. Plus I can’t think of any vain repititious Christian prayers other than the ones I said in post #45.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Why?
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What I’m saying to you if their was ever an example to me for the 3 points I made above it would be the rosary prayers.
luke 11
exodus 20
and the verse on vain repition all walk quite closely to praying the rosary. I know you guys havetried to explain why you do it, I just can’t get over it. Sorry lets move back to the list on the thread… maybe someday I’ll get it.
 
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