Project for Catholics- Explain these sacramentals

[myfavoritmartin]

Here is what is left.

Bells

Blessed medals

Blessed palms

Blessing of people

Bowing the head

Bows

Church buildings

Fire

Icons

Liturgical hours

Liturgical vessels

Liturgical year

Mary gardens

Minor orders

Religious habits

Rosaries (covered enough)

Salt

Scapulars

 

[prodigal-sun]

myfavoritmartin:

matthew 6:7
But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

How does the rosary contradict this? let me count the ways…

Hello Martin, may I ask if you:

Say the lords prayer?

If so, at what intervals may you say this prayer without it being a repetition. 1/day, 5/day or maybe only once in a lifetime.

Please let us know so that we may not fall into this repetition of prayers to our one & only God.

Peace

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

Here is what is left.

Bells

Blessed medals

Blessed palms

Blessing of people

Bowing the head

Bows

Church buildings

Fire

Icons

Liturgical hours

Liturgical vessels

Liturgical year

Mary gardens

Minor orders

Religious habits

Rosaries (covered enough)

Salt

Scapulars

That’s easy enough. Liturgical anything is something that comes along with Judaism. Jesus is the Logos (icons). Fire represents the light of Christ. Church buildings evoke the supernatural and are supposed to draw our minds towards God. Bowing your head is a sign of respect. All the rest are mere practices that are not forbidden in the Bible.

 

[Della]

myfavoritmartin:

Here is what is left.

I’d like to know you read and understood my last post, #74, in response to yours in which you cited Luke 11 first, please. :tiphat:

 

[prodigal-sun]

myfavoritmartin:

I get that, so in your opinion please provide to me an example of any church using a vain repetitious prayer.

The Lords Prayer! Given to us as by God himself!

How many times are we allowed to pray this without it seeming repititious?

Peace!

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Della:

I’d like to know you read and understood my last post, #74, in response to yours in which you cited Luke 11 first, please. :tiphat:

Sorry didn’t see too many postings going on, I do read and understand your definition, mine however is diffrent in that I see this waoman giving devotion credence and admiration in the wrong area and then christ correcting her and saying "blessed are** those**
that hear the word of god …

 

[myfavoritmartin]

prodigal-sun:

The Lords Prayer! Given to us as by God himself!

How many times are we allowed to pray this without it seeming repititious?

Peace!

Prodigal, I get repetition is not a bad thing, we are to the point of defining vain repetition.

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

we are to the point of defining vain repetition.

I don’t think that this is something that we can make generalizations about. Whether or not a prayer is vain is invisible to the human eye. Only the person themself and God know what is in their heart. Catholics and Protestants can both be guilty of it.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

JSmitty2005:

I don’t think that this is something that we can make generalizations about. Whether or not a prayer is vain is invisible to the human eye. Only the person themself and God know what is in their heart. Catholics and Protestants can both be guilty of it.

Agreed! though I would like to discuss thread 69-70 a little more because didn’t the rosary really start gaing popularity after fatima was brought to the forefront?

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

Agreed! though I would like to discuss thread 69-70 a little more because didn’t the rosary really start gaing popularity after fatima was brought to the forefront?

No, although there was supposedly an apparition. But this one was back over 700 years ago. Mary appeared to St. Dominic and gave him the rosary as a way to battle the Albigensian heresy.

users.net1plus.com/artcatholic/Rosary.html

You may also want to read the following link about the evolution of the rosary. There was a time when Catholics prayed all the Psalms on it. Also, today many Catholics use the rosary to pray the Divine Mercy chaplet, so it’s not like this is dogma or anything of the sort.

rosary-center.org/ll49n5.htm

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You asked
"Whether it sits well with you is irrelevant. We’ve already established that it sits well with God. That’s all that matters.

I answered
How is that?

With an apparition?
Fatima
Could not satan be spiteful and kniving (spelling?) to insight a vision?.

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

You asked
"Whether it sits well with you is irrelevant. We’ve already established that it sits well with God. That’s all that matters.

I answered
How is that?

With an apparition?
Fatima
Could not satan be spiteful and kniving (spelling?) to insight a vision?.

I meant that we’ve established that repetitious prayer sits well with God. We did it not because of any apparition, but by using Scripture and common sense. As for Satan inspiring a vision…of course it can happen! But the Church is extremely careful about approving these apparitions. Do you know what the messages of the apparitions like Fatima were? In a nutshell, Mary points to her Son and His fundamental Gospel message of fasting, prayer, conversion, and peace. This is no surprise because that’s what she’s been saying all along: “Do whatever He tells you.”

 

[myfavoritmartin]

JSmitty2005:

I meant that we’ve established that repetitious prayer sits well with God. We did it not because of any apparition, but by using Scripture and common sense. As for Satan inspiring a vision…of course it can happen! But the Church is extremely careful about approving these apparitions. Do you know what the messages of the apparitions like Fatima were? In a nutshell, Mary points to her Son and His fundamental Gospel message of fasting, prayer, conversion, and peace. This is no surprise because that’s what she’s been saying all along:

“Do whatever He tells you.”

Sorry, this should have been moved to a diff thread.

I thought and correct me if I’m wrong( I know you will)
The story goes something like this, in this vision Mary reinforced praying the rosary and then disclosed some of God’s plans for essentially the next century and then detailed some end times predictions, some the papacy are disclosing and some not? Am I close so far ?.

 

[Della]

myfavoritmartin:

Sorry didn’t see too many postings going on…

Yes, it’s hard when you are the only one trying to answer everybody else, isn’t it? Don’t worry about it, I just wanted to know my posts haven’t been in vain.

I do read and understand your definition, mine however is diffrent in that I see this waoman giving devotion credence and admiration in the wrong area and then christ correcting her and saying "blessed are** those**
that hear the word of god …

Of course, Jesus used this incident, as he did so many others, as a teaching moment for all of us, which is why he pluralized his remarks.

And we can’t be there to see the look in his eyes or any gestures he might have made. For instance, if Mary was right there, he may have taken her hand and said his words as much to her as to everyone else, but that’s just my feeling about it after meditating on this and imagining it. Knowing Jesus’ great love for his mother, I can truly see him doing it that way.

Nor can we hear the tone of his voice, or the reaction of those around him when we aren’t told about it. I have so often wished the Gospel writers had been more like modern writers and provided these details for us, haven’t you?

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

I thought and correct me if I’m wrong( I know you will)
The story goes something like this, in this vision Mary reinforced praying the rosary and then disclosed some of God’s plans for essentially the next century and then detailed some end times predictions, some the papacy are disclosing and some not? Am I close so far ?.

Yes, praying the rosary was certainly recommended. Also, some end times warnings were made (is that a surprise to any Christian? Catholics or Protestants? :nope: ). Finally, there’s debate over whether or not the 3rd secret was revealed (mostly because it wasn’t what some extreme traditionalists were hoping it said). But the Vatican claims that it was, so I’ll take the pope’s word for it.

None of this is really the point though. She said that if we don’t turn to Christ, evangelize, and work for peace, THEN all the bad stuff will happen. That doesn’t sound too far off from what I hear a lot of Protestants saying.

 

[Gene_C]

Somebody mentioned Protestant traditions not found in Scripture. Here one more.

Dedicating infants and babies instead of baptizing them.

Peace,
Gene

 

[myfavoritmartin]

JSmitty2005:

Yes, praying the rosary was certainly recommended. Also, some end times warnings were made (is that a surprise to any Christian? Catholics or Protestants? :nope: ). Finally, there’s debate over whether or not the 3rd secret was revealed (mostly because it wasn’t what some extreme traditionalists were hoping it said). But the Vatican claims that it was, so I’ll take the pope’s word for it.

None of this is really the point though. She said that if we don’t turn to Christ, evangelize, and work for peace, THEN all the bad stuff will happen. That doesn’t sound too far off from what I hear a lot of Protestants saying.

okay I’m at an understanding with all of this, and i’ve responded to della’s request shall we go back to placing sacramentals with scripture

 

[JSmitty2005]

myfavoritmartin:

okay I’m at an understanding with all of this, and i’ve responded to della’s request shall we go back to placing sacramentals with scripture

Sure. :yup: Although I’ve already done so in post #79.

 

[prodigal-sun]

myfavoritmartin:

Prodigal, I get repetition is not a bad thing, we are to the point of defining vain repetition.

I would define vain repetition as any prayer sent to the pagan gods.

A prayer that is not vain would be any prayer sent to The Lord our God. I would also say there is no limit to the number of those prayers said in sequence!

I’m sure we can agree upon that!

Peace!

 

[St.Eric]

myfavoritmartin:

I AGREE ON THIS.
BUT THE REPETITIVENESS OF THE ROSARY PRAYERS DOESNT SIT WELL WITH ME AND I AM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE SENTENCE…Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness, and our hope. I REALIZE THAT IS A DIFFRENT SUBJECT IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO BE AN AWFULLY SLIPPERY SLOPE TOWARDS GOING AGAINST CHRISTS COMMANDS, NOT ONE I AM COMFORTABLE WITH ALLOWING MY SON TO PRAY. IT VAGUELY COULD BE CONSIDERED GRAVEN IMAGE, IT VAGUELY COULD BE COSIDERED OPPOSING EXODUS 20:4-5 AS WELL AS VAIN REPETITION. ITS LIL CLOSE ON THOSE THREE POINTS.

You are not seeing the forest for the trees. Look at the prayer like this: Hail, Holy Queen, (every king has a mother so does Christ the king- Every King’s mother is a Queen), mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetnes, and our hope (Mary is not these things, she is the mother of these things. She is the mother of Christ who is mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope). Can you see this?