projector screen to display text hymns?

[Guitar]

I think one of the reasons for the projector screen is so that people are singing with their heads up (looking at the screen) rather than down (“buried in a hymnal”). But the same thing can be accomplished by 1) using hymns that most people are familiar with (by using less variety of hymns), or 2) letting the choir do their thing and letting the congregation listen. (But #2 tends to elicit a bad reaction from some people.)

I’ve heard this over and over, and it seems to me this “argument” in favour of projectors has spread virally among Those In Favour with many repeating it uncritically parrot-fashion.

Personally, I doubt very much that most untrained singers will make more noise with their heads up than their heads down. Few trained singers will sing with their heads any higher than level and raising the head any further can produce tension in the throat.

And if it is not a matter of making it easier for people to sing louder and better, then who’s business is it whether I look up, down or sideways while singing hymns? Why does “using a hymnal” = “buried” in a hymnal (emotive choice of word) and on whose authority was that decreed A Bad Bad Thing?

(Semi-rhetorical questions and not directed at japhy - I doubt he is madly pro-projector. )

But the argument for many has become unchallengable dogma.

 

[Canto]

So does this rule still hold true? I ask this becuase there is debate if such rules are still to be obeyed since the Novus Ordo came into being and Vatican II took place.

Vat II, Musicam Sacram, General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Redemptoris Sacramentum etc. None of these documents change the rule from 1958 - only a few short years before Vat II’s document on the ligurgy.

 

[DeepeningFaith]

Vat II, Musicam Sacram, General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Redemptoris Sacramentum etc. None of these documents change the rule from 1958 - only a few short years before Vat II’s document on the ligurgy.

Umm… didn’t Pope Paul VI say that the old rules did not apply to the Novus Ordo? Also, I think the CDWDS has said that nothing that pertains to the EF can be transferred to the OF…?

 

[japhy]

And if it is not a matter of making it easier for people to sing louder and better, then who’s business is it whether I look up, down or sideways while singing hymns?

My guess is because the action of the liturgy is not in the words of the hymnal, but somewhere else. You are correct that I am not pro-projector, but I do have a desire that people would look at what is happening at Mass and pay attention to their surroundings. How many people never watch the Entrance Procession because they’re looking at their hymnal? How many people never watch the Offertory rites because they’re looking at their hymnal?

I’m not saying singing hymns is bad, but I think more familiar ones should be used when the congregation is expected to vocally participate in them, and leave less familiar ones – or, God-willing, the actual Mass propers! – to the choir.

 

[Guitar]

My guess is because the action of the liturgy is not in the words of the hymnal, but somewhere else. You are correct that I am not pro-projector, but I do have a desire that people would look at what is happening at Mass and pay attention to their surroundings. How many people never watch the Entrance Procession because they’re looking at their hymnal? How many people never watch the Offertory rites because they’re looking at their hymnal?

I’m not saying singing hymns is bad, but I think more familiar ones should be used when the congregation is expected to vocally participate in them, and leave less familiar ones – or, God-willing, the actual Mass propers! – to the choir.

A fair point, however someone somewhere has decided that this never happens if you use hymnals and it has become accepted doctrine.

The only time I ever schedule a hymn that isn’t very familiar to the congregation is when it is being introduced as new material, and in that case it is repeated frequently (weekly if possible for a month or so) until it is familiar. The hymnal is then a prompt rather than something that needs to be followed word-by-word for every single verse.

And, moreover, a hymnal is something you can look at as and when you need to - and not look at when you don’t want to. It is not permanently “there” writ large in all its glory right in front of you and impossible to tune out when you don’t need to look at it. Others may feel differently but I can’t tune a projector screen out when it isn’t needed.

And what is achieved if my eyes are glued to a projector screen instead of a book - I’m still not watching other aspects of the liturgy. If that is the argument, then it still comes down to the choice of music and who sings it and this issue is not solved by projectors - using one instead of a book keeps me looking at a fixed point in the building rather than a book in my hand that I can reposition to perhaps allow me to see other things at the same time. And if you project the image so that it is close to where the liturgical action is, then in many buildings you will be projecting it where many will feel it does not belong.

 

[Sarabande]

And what is achieved if my eyes are glued to a projector screen instead of a book - I’m still not watching other aspects of the liturgy. If that is the argument, then it still comes down to the choice of music and who sings it and this issue is not solved by projectors - using one instead of a book keeps me looking at a fixed point in the building rather than a book in my hand that I can reposition to perhaps allow me to see other things at the same time. And if you project the image so that it is close to where the liturgical action is, then in many buildings you will be projecting it where many will feel it does not belong.

All good points in your entire post, but this part reminded me of something. Sometimes when I watch movies in English, I’ll put the subtitles on because it’s hard for me to understand an accent or dialect. For some reason I just stare at the subtitles and won’t watch the actual movies. It’s like I’m mesmerized by it. So, I watch the movie one or two times with the subtitles, sort of memorize it, then watch it again without them so that I can actually “watch” the movie. I don’t do it when I watch foreign language movies, just with English, which is really strange to me. ( I suppose it’s because in English, my ear will automatically want to hear what I’m also reading if that makes sense. If it’s in a foreign language I know that what I’m hearing isn’t going to match up with the subtitle, so I just quickly look at it and then back up on the movie.) I’ve never attended a mass with the projector screens, but if I did, I can imagine myself doing the same thing. It would completely take me off-focus. With hymnals, I think with my background singing in choirs and always needing to watch the conductor/director, I don’t get “mesmerized” by the paper. I always hold my book out, glance down when I need it while I’m also watching what’s going on at mass. If it’s a new hymn, the first verse I’ll probably be paying attention to the music since I’m sight reading, then I’ll have it memorized for the rest of the hymn.

 

[Cat]

I’m predicting that the ban against “projectors” will go away in the near future. There used to be a connotation of “entertainment” that went with projectors and slides/movies.

But nowadays, these things are one of the ways we obtain information. The very idea of a projector and screen as entertainment is so strange to me. It sounds about as ancient as saying that people should only take a bath on Saturday night–I don’t think so!

I would like to see the music to the various chant responses projected on a screen so that when the priest chants, those of us who didn’t grow up Catholic would actually know what to sing.

 

[choy]

I’m predicting that the ban against “projectors” will go away in the near future. There used to be a connotation of “entertainment” that went with projectors and slides/movies.

But nowadays, these things are one of the ways we obtain information. The very idea of a projector and screen as entertainment is so strange to me. It sounds about as ancient as saying that people should only take a bath on Saturday night–I don’t think so!

I would like to see the music to the various chant responses projected on a screen so that when the priest chants, those of us who didn’t grow up Catholic would actually know what to sing.

actually, i don’t think anyone has confirmed if that 1958 decree still stands today. there could be a partial lifting of the ban or a total lifting of it. perhaps bishops are left to decide if its appropriate in their diocese to use projectors rather than hymnals and missals

 

[Canto]

Umm… didn’t Pope Paul VI say that the old rules did not apply to the Novus Ordo? Also, I think the CDWDS has said that nothing that pertains to the EF can be transferred to the OF…?

The Pope was merely saying no projectors at Mass.
He was not making it part of the Missal, a ruberic.
Simply making it a rule - no projectors.
This has not changed.

 

[choy]

The Pope was merely saying no projectors at Mass.
He was not making it part of the Missal, a ruberic.
Simply making it a rule - no projectors.
This has not changed.

the most probable answer to why the use is so popular in Asia, is perhaps the Bishops have been granted the authority to allow this within their diocese

i can’t think of a parish right now in the Philippines that doesn’t use a projector

 

[Elizium23]

What’s peculiar is that my diocese often puts out a DVD that is required to be shown during the Mass on Sunday. They contain messages from the bishop on political activities or fund-raising, such as the Charity and Development Appeal that is currently running.

So if there is indeed a ban on projectors, our bishop has issued a de facto dispensation from the rule so that we can see his messages.

 

[Cat]

What’s peculiar is that my diocese often puts out a DVD that is required to be shown during the Mass on Sunday. They contain messages from the bishop on political activities or fund-raising, such as the Charity and Development Appeal that is currently running.

So if there is indeed a ban on projectors, our bishop has issued a de facto dispensation from the rule so that we can see his messages.

That’s what happens in our diocese.

It’s not like this is a dogma of the faith that can never be changed. The liturgy is something that can be changed by the Magisterium; after all, they’re giving us the new translation of the OF Mass.

This is just a practice that made sense in the past, but doesn’t really make sense now.

As for why projectors are used in the Philippines–could it have something to do with humidity destroying paper hymnals?

In my childhood church (evangelical Protestant), they stopped using hymnals years ago because people were vandalizing them by drawing Satanic and pornographic pictures in them. They use overheads for almost all the songs, including the traditional hymns. It works just fine. It’s just a way to get information.

If I had the money, I would buy one of those computer notebooks for the piano and scan all my music into it, and then I wouldn’t have hymnals or sheet music to worry about during Mass (no more page turns!). It never occurred to me that it could be forbidden in the Mass because it’s a “projector”, but to me, it seems silly to forbid something so practical. I would be able to put any Mass parts into it and always have them available, and any hymn, so no more frantic searches through the piano bench for the hymns.

At one time, yes, I would have agreed that screens and projectors give the wrong image in church. But now, I don’t think this applies anymore. I hope that eventually, it gets brought to the table (or whatever is used in Rome) and changed.

 

[ProVobis]

The liturgy is something that can be changed by the Magisterium; after all, they’re giving us the new translation of the OF Mass.

The Latin text, the basis of the OF Mass, isn’t being changed. Just the translations into the everchanging English language. However, that doesn’t mean modernized.

 

[ProVobis]

The liturgy is something that can be changed by the Magisterium; after all, they’re giving us the new translation of the OF Mass.

The Latin text, the basis of the OF Mass, isn’t being changed. Just the translations into the everchanging English language. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean modernized.

 

[Moscati]

Our parish uses a projector for songs during Wednesday night prayer/food/singing/whatever else meetings, which are sometimes in the chapel. There’s no place to put it that doesn’t completely cover something (altar, Mary, piano), so they usually put it halfway up the aisle and everyone sits farther back, which would obviously never work for Mass. The only time I’ve ever seen it used during a Mass was for one of those recorded bishop’s messages, and it was pretty annoying, considering all the musicians and choir members were squished behind it off to one side.

If there was a way to do it unobtrusively, I think it would be okay (assuming the Pope allowed it, of course–that document would need to be clarified), but that’s pretty hard to do.

 

[lizaanne]

The very idea of a projector and screen as entertainment is so strange to me. It sounds about as ancient as saying that people should only take a bath on Saturday night–I don’t think so!

Don’t you go to the movies??

I would like to see the music to the various chant responses projected on a screen so that when the priest chants, those of us who didn’t grow up Catholic would actually know what to sing.

This is a horrific idea.

Buy a printer and print them off yourself to take to Mass. Sancta Missa - Kyriale

~Liza

 

[choy]

As for why projectors are used in the Philippines–could it have something to do with humidity destroying paper hymnals?

no. sadly there is not a level of respect for what is perceived as public property by a lot of people. book hymnals and missals wouldn’t last a month. people would either take them home for themselves and justify the act that they’re going to be bringing them to Church anyway every week, or that those using the books wouldn’t give it due care that it’ll be worn out in a couple of months.

another reason is that 80% of the country are Catholics, and churches are usually jam-packed with people for most Sunday masses. its common for a few dozen to a couple of hundred people to be standing on the sides and at the back, and sometimes outside of the church during Mass because its full. its probably cheaper to run a projector than buy a lot of Missals

also, just to add to my earlier point about losing or damaged Missals and Hymnals. i’m not saying most of the people there are thieves or careless, but given that 80% of the population are Catholics, even if 1% of that number are the troublemakers, they would quickly go through the Missals and Hymnals

they did try to print disposable Missals. they’re printed week to week in a sheet of paper. but again, most parishes have 3 masses in the morning and 3 masses in the afternoon/evening. if you’re going to Mass late in the day, you’ll probably not find any Missals or they won’t be enough as some were probably taken home, destroyed, or blown away by the wind (most parishes there have all doors open because of the heat. the only ones that don’t keep all doors open are the airconditioned ones)

 

[ELDEN_S_WIFE]

My church recently installed a projector screen over the altar that can be lowered and raised.

It was first used during the Sunday evening Youth Mass in which the words were projected for all to read. Most of the songs were ones they already had in a book they purchased not too many years ago just for the youth. They are still in good condition, but I guess we are just too lazy to get them out and then someone has to pick them all up at the end of mass!

At the first mass that they used it I noticed they were giving web addresses for some of the songs. When I got home I looked them up. To my horror, all were from Protestant websites, two of which were very anti-catholic! (Our music director is protestant, which is another beef I have!)

Now they have taken the screens to a new level. I arrived about 10 minutes early for mass about a month ago to find advertisements for our upcoming International Festival being projected! Needless to say I was very upset, thoughts of money changers in the church came to mind and I wept through the whole mass for the pain it must be causing our dear Lord.

Last week we had the children go up on the altar and sing songs from Vacation Bible School (more protestant sources) and we had to show the video above the altar singing and dancing along with the kids. This occurred prior to mass starting and again before the final blessing.

My question is, how long before we are showing swirly patterns, religious symbols or other so called “appropriate” pictures above the altar during mass? (This is what my husbands Protestant church has showing during their services.) The mentality has become that of entertaining instead of participation at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I for one would love to find a traditional mass that focuses on the real reason we are there, and not the priests desires, the youth leaders desires, the parish counsels desires, etc.
When will we remember whos mass it is anyway?

 

[Elizabeth502]

De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia
Sacred Congregation for Rites - September 3, 1958

1. The use of any kind of projector, and particularly movie projectors, with or without sound track, is strictly forbidden in church for any reason, even if it be for a pious, religious, or charitable cause.

Really? This surprises me. One of my local churches has a gigantic screen high up which displays hymn text. However, it is definitely not in the sanctuary! It is way over to the side. The church is rather unusual and asymmetrical, with vast ceilings that require extension ladders to reach. The whole church is cavernous and rather large, so I never find the screen intrusive whatsoever to what is going on in the sanctuary and at the altar. If I remember correctly, the reason for this addition was precisely what japhy said about the distraction of looking down. I find it actually easier, not more difficult, to focus on the Mass with such a screen in such a non-traditional architectural setting, but in most churches which are differently constructed, that would not be true, I concede.

OTOH, this is the same church that allows lay preaching of the homily in replacement of the priest, 4-5 times/year.

 

[boatbearer]

De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia
Sacred Congregation for Rites - September 3, 1958

1. The use of any kind of projector, and particularly movie projectors, with or without sound track, is strictly forbidden in church for any reason, even if it be for a pious, religious, or charitable cause.

There is no way that this 1958 document in any way precludes the use of some AV equipment here in 2010 if it’s used in a responsible manner. The gear available in 1958 – literally movie footage, “flim strips”, slides and overhead projectors could never do the Mass any justice.

On the other hand I was at one church that appeared to have two large and beautiful icons – one of Mary and one of Joseph on each side of the main sanctuary crucifix. It turns out they were two large screen plasma TVs sunken into the walls. No way could you tell until the image changed. Their application and use was masterful. No way did the creators of De Musica Sacra de Musica Liturgia anticipate such technology and perhaps such a masterful application.

Those that uniformly reject the application of such gifts within the Mass are terribly mistaken.