projector screen to display text hymns?

[jmcrae]

No, not “tacky.”

Amazing anyone could pass judgment on something they have never even seen.

I have actually seen the kind of set-up that you’re referring to - and although, yes, it’s tastefully appointed, it really gives the Sanctuary the feel of a conference hall, much more than of sacred space. Especially with the never-ending stream of colorful announcement ads being displayed on it before and after Mass (which I found extremely distracting).

In my opinion, if such a display is required so that parishioners can know what’s going on in the parish, it should probably be installed in the coffee and fellowship area, rather than in the sanctuary.

 

[choy]

Is there some kind of a black market for hymn books and prayer books?

for the Philippines, one of my guesses is that because 60% of the country is poor, those who may or may not be Catholics might take the books out and sell them off to recyclers for money to buy food

it may be the same case in Vietnam

 

[jmcrae]

Why on earth would being able to see and read the notes to the chants be any more “horrific” on an overhead than on sheets of paper? Why is looking UP at the words on a screen any more “horrific” than looking at the words on a sheet of paper? That makes no sense to me.

Because in a properly-constructed Catholic Church, the screen would be covering up the crucifix and the statues of Mary and Joseph, or else if it’s down lower than them, it would be covering up the Tabernacle and the Altar.

 

[choy]

Because in a properly-constructed Catholic Church, the screen would be covering up the crucifix and the statues of Mary and Joseph, or else if it’s down lower than them, it would be covering up the Tabernacle and the Altar.

in the Philippines the projector screens are off to one side
except in one big parish where the screen is in the middle above the altar, but not covering anything

 

[boatbearer]

I have actually seen the kind of set-up that you’re referring to - and although, yes, it’s tastefully appointed, it really gives the Sanctuary the feel of a conference hall, much more than of sacred space. Especially with the never-ending stream of colorful announcement ads being displayed on it before and after Mass (which I found extremely distracting).

In my opinion, if such a display is required so that parishioners can know what’s going on in the parish, it should probably be installed in the coffee and fellowship area, rather than in the sanctuary.

No it need not make a sanctuary look like a “conference hall.” You are wrong about that. That may be all that you have experienced but there is better out there. I have seen it personally.

I covered the “the never-ending stream” bit. If they are doing that they are not using the AV system (no matter how good it might be) in a judicious manner. I wouldn’t defend that.

I’m not sure what good things like the lyrics to hymns would do in the “coffee and fellowship area” (parish hall?) but they can do a great deal of good in a church.

 

[boatbearer]

Because in a properly-constructed Catholic Church, the screen would be covering up the crucifix and the statues of Mary and Joseph, or else if it’s down lower than them, it would be covering up the Tabernacle and the Altar.

Not so.

Any screen would obviously not cover the sanctuary crucifix. There is also nothing that specifies statues of Mary and Joseph in a “properly-constructed Catholic Church.” (sic) Although the wonderful system I saw had gorgeous icon images of the Theotokos, Joseph and the patron saint of the parish as their “default” imagines. The system was designed so well that there was no way one could tell they were not gently back-lit hand-written icons until the images changed to the first reading. Readings that looked precisely like an illuminated page of a fancy Lectionary yet it was still easy to read.

It’s too bad all Catholic churches don’t have the resources and the vision to design and install such systems.

 

[vera_dicere]

We’ve had this sort of practice in New Zealand for years. Apparently it came about as people taking home the hymn books and it costing the churches a lot of money to replace them. They tried handing out simple pieces of paper with the songs for the Mass but then they got damaged easily.

Although, today at Mass I saw something done that I’ve never seen in a Catholic Mass before, but I’ve seen it at non-Catholic Christian services, and I had to say I really didn’t like it;

We have powerpoint at the Church I attend, and today there was a powerpoint demonstration as such, with pretty images and taped music playing over the top, the words for the song ran under the images and it was one of those “happy clappy” songs you’d buy from a Christian book store. People didn’t know the song and so couldn’t confidently sing to it.

I thought the point of Vatican II was to include us all in the worship of Mass, not for a few people to set up a pretty display that blares out during communion and after. The irony is it was about “being in the quiet”. Sometimes I think that’s what we need back in our Masses, quiet.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not sure what good things like the lyrics to hymns would do in the “coffee and fellowship area” (parish hall?) but they can do a great deal of good in a church.

With good leadership from the choir, people shouldn’t need “lyrics” to follow. They should be able to hear and follow along with the choir. If the choir is in the habit of springing unknown songs on to the congregation on a regular basis, then they need to break that habit, and get back to the well-known hymns. Likewise, if they are in the habit of mumbling. Just IMHO.

 

[boatbearer]

With good leadership from the choir, people shouldn’t need “lyrics” to follow. They should be able to hear and follow along with the choir. If the choir is in the habit of springing unknown songs on to the congregation on a regular basis, then they need to break that habit, and get back to the well-known hymns. Likewise, if they are in the habit of mumbling. Just IMHO.

Again, simply not true. While the lyrics/music are not absolutely necessary they are a great help. That’s typically what the hymnals are for. Same with the readings – not all have a missalette nor do all want to have their faces buried in a book at Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

Again, simply not true. While the lyrics/music are not absolutely necessary they are a great help. That’s typically what the hymnals are for. Same with the readings – not all have a missalette nor do all want to have their faces buried in a book at Mass.

A book or a song-sheet is an aid, of course. Having the lyrics up on a huge screen is over the top, though, since it not only distracts from what the people should be looking at - the Crucifix, and the Altar - but in too many cases actually covers them up.

 

[boatbearer]

A book or a song-sheet is an aid, of course.** Having the lyrics up on a huge screen is over the top**, though, since it not only distracts from what the people should be looking at - the Crucifix, and the Altar - but in too many cases actually covers them up.

So you say. I’m simply rejecting your personal opinion is all as I have my own based on my own experiences. If an AV system covered the main crucifix or the altar it wouldn’t be the sort of superbly designed AV system that I am talking about.

 

[jmcrae]

So you say. I’m simply rejecting your personal opinion is all as I have my own based on my own experiences. If an AV system covered the main crucifix or the altar it wouldn’t be the sort of superbly designed AV system that I am talking about.

We are not talking here about “superbly designed AV systems” specifically - we are talking about everything from Paddy the caretaker bringing the portable screen in from the gym at the school over yonder, plunking it up in front of the Altar, pointing a magic lantern at it kind of sideways from one of the front pews, and having a kid insert the slides of the lyrics into it, usually either upside down or backwards, and usually not until about half-way through each of the songs, after he’s been poked about a million times, and people whispering at him. “NOW, put the song in NOW!!” to PowerPoint projectors, which again have the human element, (and for some reason they always get a kid to operate the thing, and the kid usually just gets grabbed five minutes before the start of Mass, and has no idea which slide he’s supposed to be showing at any given time), to whatever - and including conference-style AV systems with professional technical support - but not them exclusively.

However, even the most tasteful conference-style AV systems are distracting, because of all the ads for all the different parish activities flashing by, when one is trying to pray.

 

[lizaanne]

However, even the most tasteful conference-style AV systems are distracting, because of all the ads for all the different parish activities flashing by, when one is trying to pray.

I’ve given up jmcrae - he will never be convinced because he apparently belongs to a parish that can afford the “superb” - when probably 90% of most Catholic parishes will never have that sort of budget, and end up with what you describe above in an effort to keep up with the St. Joneses Parish down the street.

The problem is that if you can’t have the level of “superb” in every parish so that it is so flawlessly integrated into the Mass, and run by superbly competent staff, then it will be substandard everywhere and therefore inappropriate, distracting, and misused.

So - until “superb” is an option for every parish in the country - or the global Church for that matter - then I don’t think it belongs anywhere.

~Liza

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve given up jmcrae - he will never be convinced because he apparently belongs to a parish that can afford the “superb” - when probably 90% of most Catholic parishes will never have that sort of budget, and end up with what you describe above in an effort to keep up with the St. Joneses Parish down the street.

lol!!

So - until “superb” is an option for every parish in the country - or the global Church for that matter - then I don’t think it belongs anywhere.

And in the mean time, a congregation of unaccompanied human voices, singing hymns that most people already know, will probably always remain the preference of the Church not only for being the most cost-effective, but also for being the most beautiful.

 

[boatbearer]

We are not talking here about “superbly designed AV systems” specifically - we are talking about everything from Paddy the caretaker bringing the portable screen in from the gym at the school over yonder, plunking it up in front of the Altar, pointing a magic lantern at it kind of sideways from one of the front pews, and having a kid insert the slides of the lyrics into it, usually either upside down or backwards, and usually not until about half-way through each of the songs, after he’s been poked about a million times, and people whispering at him. “NOW, put the song in NOW!!” to PowerPoint projectors, which again have the human element, (and for some reason they always get a kid to operate the thing, and the kid usually just gets grabbed five minutes before the start of Mass, and has no idea which slide he’s supposed to be showing at any given time), to whatever - and including conference-style AV systems with professional technical support - but not them exclusively.

However, even the most tasteful conference-style AV systems are distracting, because of all the ads for all the different parish activities flashing by, when one is trying to pray.

I was. From the very beginning. Even a cursory review of my posts on this thread will verify that fact.

I underscored this very aspect only to be met with the canned/tired “still like putting lipstick on a pig” or similar misplaced/emotional response which is simply untrue. Now you are trying to turn the discussion in a different direction and it shows.

Some need to qualify their opinions as just that – their opinions.

 

[jmcrae]

I was.

All by yourself, though. Everyone else was talking about what happens in real parishes most of the time.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The point is, you can’t generalize that it’s either all bad or all good. I will grant you that for the “typical parish” (architecturally, especially) a screen would be/will be/ is distracting, annoying. But let me tell you I would be way more annoyed by a bishop demanding to advertise himself (his activities) during the Mass, as if the Mass is some kind of media opportunity, than I am even annoyed to watch those who used to be perfectly fine without handheld electronics suddenly stating that they absolutely cannot attend Mass without them. (Someone posted on this thread that on their large screen there’s some kind of moving/crawling message, or some news about the local bishop in giant font. There are plenty of places for bishops and other clergy to announce their own news, to publish opinion pieces and policy statements. There always have been those outlets, and those have not disappeared. Usually they’re in the local diocesan newspaper (weekly, monthly, etc.) and/or the parish bulletin – most of which are now available both in paper and electronic versions.

The situation in one of my local parishes is exceptional, if not unique. The architecture is unlike most any Catholic Church (or any Christian Church) architecture most of you have ever seen, probably. In such a vast space, a screen which completely blends in with that architecture, is illumined only during the hymns, contains only text, is not in color, and is way over to the side – not competing with the centrality of the sanctuary – and which allows everyone to look up and to be aware of what is going on, rather than fumbling with paper or books, looking down, and being preoccupied – is really a tremendous liturgical benefit relative to the smoothness of the celebration, the focus of the congregation, and, paradoxically, the silence it encourages. A side benefit is the assistance it provides to elderly people, who often have much more trouble locating a hymnal page (or who haven’t heard the page number because it was announced too softly or quickly) – not to mention reading the words.

This N.O. Mass is the most reverential Mass of any in my local area all week. Everyone attending is very clear that they are there for one purpose only, which does not include any of the personal distractions so many people busy themselves with at a typical N.O Sunday Mass.

But in other settings, such as most traditional Church environments, I do not imagine it working well.

 

[boatbearer]

All by yourself, though. Everyone else was talking about what happens in real parishes most of the time.

Yet your retort suggested I was talking about something different and I was not.

It’s horrible to see people make blanket declarations based only on their own personal opinions and experiences.

 

[boatbearer]

The point is, you can’t generalize that it’s either all bad or all good. I will grant you that for the “typical parish” (architecturally, especially) a screen would be/will be/ is distracting, annoying. But let me tell you I would be way more annoyed by a bishop demanding to advertise himself (his activities) during the Mass, as if the Mass is some kind of media opportunity, than I am even annoyed to watch those who used to be perfectly fine without handheld electronics suddenly stating that they absolutely cannot attend Mass without them. (Someone posted on this thread that on their large screen there’s some kind of moving/crawling message, or some news about the local bishop in giant font. There are plenty of places for bishops and other clergy to announce their own news, to publish opinion pieces and policy statements. There always have been those outlets, and those have not disappeared. Usually they’re in the local diocesan newspaper (weekly, monthly, etc.) and/or the parish bulletin – most of which are now available both in paper and electronic versions.

The situation in one of my local parishes is exceptional, if not unique. The architecture is unlike most any Catholic Church (or any Christian Church) architecture most of you have ever seen, probably. In such a vast space, a screen which completely blends in with that architecture, is illumined only during the hymns, contains only text, is not in color, and is way over to the side – not competing with the centrality of the sanctuary – and which allows everyone to look up and to be aware of what is going on, rather than fumbling with paper or books, looking down, and being preoccupied – is really a tremendous liturgical benefit relative to the smoothness of the celebration, the focus of the congregation, and, paradoxically, the silence it encourages. A side benefit is the assistance it provides to elderly people, who often have much more trouble locating a hymnal page (or who haven’t heard the page number because it was announced too softly or quickly) – not to mention reading the words.

This O.F. Mass is the most reverential Mass of any in my local area all week. Everyone attending is very clear that they are there for one purpose only, which does not include any of the personal distractions so many people busy themselves with at a “typical” O.F. Sunday Mass.

But in other settings, such as most traditional Church environments, I do not imagine it working well.

Quite true – yet people tried to do just that.

 

[boatbearer]

I’ve given up jmcrae - he will never be convinced because he apparently belongs to a parish that can afford the “superb” - when probably 90% of most Catholic parishes will never have that sort of budget, and end up with what you describe above in an effort to keep up with the St. Joneses Parish down the street.

The problem is that if you can’t have the level of “superb” in every parish so that it is so flawlessly integrated into the Mass, and run by superbly competent staff, then it will be substandard everywhere and therefore inappropriate, distracting, and misused.

So - until “superb” is an option for every parish in the country - or the global Church for that matter - then I don’t think it belongs anywhere.

~Liza

Actually you didn’t “give up.” You took another shot or two at my postings…

90%? Where did you get that number?

I would guess that at least 90% (it’s probably closer to 100%) of the parishes in my diocese have enough money for such a system – if they wanted and understood such a system.

Your last part is ludicrous “until ‘superb’ is an option for every parish in the country - or the global Church for that matter - then I don’t think it belongs anywhere.” Interesting logic… :nope:

At least it’s nicer than that rude remark you made in your first attack on my first posting:

At the end of the day - it’s still two tvs in the sanctuary. Tacky.

No matter how you dress up a pig, it’s still a pig.

~Liza