Yes, you’re right, some definitions and more “research” on my part is needed. I really need to go track down our CCC and read what it says about Baptism. But you know, if there was an emergency situation and no plain water available (and no time to go fetch some), only tea right at the person’s bedside, would that not be allowed? I honestly don’t know.The analogy (with amniotic fluid) I was thinking of was tea. Tea is like 99% water, with tea leaves seeped in. You take the leaves out, so you’re left with slightly flavored/colored water. And obviously, we can’t baptize with tea.
So I guess our first obstacle is defining “water.”
Now you’ve got me thinking…
Watch out!!! 
what if, during such a surgery, the doctors used a syringe and squirted a little sterile water on the unborn baby and pronounced the words of baptism in good faith? That would be a valid baptism, right?
Isn’t this just such a fascinating topic? I can’t wait for DH to get home to discuss this with him! But that is an interesting thought about the saliva. Jesus used His saliva in his healing ministry…hmmm…Now you’ve got me thinking…
What if even tea wasn’t available bedside, in an emergency? Could saliva be used (maybe a better analogy than tea, because it’s also a bodily fluid)?
Hmm…
I would think so!So…
Except before we called it “amniotic fluid,” it was called “water.” We still do, to some degree, call it “water,” as in, “My water broke.”
The Church recognizes as valid those baptisms performed in other Christian traditions, such as immersion baptism, sprinkling, etc. What I’m saying is that perhaps the Church could allow a pre-born baptism, perhaps with a conditional baptism after the birth. Also, in regular Catholic baptisms, the baptismal water is often blessed/consecrated beforehand, another thing that would be missing in the baptism-with-amniotic fluid idea. But then again, it’s also missing in emergency baptisms sometimes.
And “bag of waters”Except before we called it “amniotic fluid,” it was called “water.” We still do, to some degree, call it “water,” as in, “My water broke.”
And the little children’s book “Angel in the waters” (by the way, that’s a really sweet book, if you don’t have it yet, your DD might enjoy it while preparing to be a big sister!).One of the reasons the Church cannonizes saints is to have something that says “here this person is in heaven, we know because of miricles and that they lived thier lives according to our faith in some way that you can emulate.” 1st off a preborn unbaptized is not a Christian so therefore they cannot be a saint. 2 there is baptism of desire, and maybe that is what we are praying and hopeing for. 3 as soon as you give status of saithood to an unbaptised baby then what is to stop buddah, mlk, muhammed, and hitler form being cannonized saints. The Church has criteria that you are overlooking.It isn’t about who to pray with. All the Saints are wonderful prayer partners and I use them always. It is about honoring life from conception. If we say they are humans with a soul then why can’t we also have a Saint that died before birth? If we want to end abortion and show that the preborn are just as treasured, then a Cannonized Saint would give that witness. St. Theresa teaches the little way. Why not a Saint to teach us that he or she was living in the womb AND WENT HEAVEN without baptism.
Limbo is out and thats good because I am never truely happy in limbo and I doubt anyone else is either. We aren’t to baptise dead bodies and it is said that you must be baptised to get to heaven. Of course we have baptism of desire, but they don’t readily apply that to the preborn. You could put aborted babies in the Martyrs, but where does that leave children who die naturally before birth.
Of course abortion is wrong but the Church needs to do more work to show they really believe that life begins at conception. Back up their words with actions. Maybe I just have a glitch.
I see your point about unborn baptism possibly soothing consciences about abortions. But really, it’s no different than infant baptism in that if you’re killing the baby before or after birth, if they were baptised you could tell yourself this person is sinless and will go straight to Heaven. Although in this country it is still illegal to kill newborns, but not the unborn.
Good idea, pumpkinbeast!
Yes, now I wish I had asked AAA specifically if there is any hope for having an unborn Saint. So basically we’ve established that baptism of the unborn is unnecessary. Therefore, the babies go to Heaven if they die before birth. And the definition of a Saint is someone in Heaven.
Yes, that’s not a very sound analogy at all. I thought they were going to say “What’s to stop all babies who die after baptism but before the age of reason to be cannonized Saints.” And my reply would be “The more the merrier!”“what is to stop buddah, mlk, muhammed, and hitler form being cannonized saints?” THEIR SINS!