proof about negative views on Harry Potter

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rocklobster

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OK, I’m a Harry Potter fan and I’m constantly angered about everyone saying it’s evil for the following reasons:
  1. Why aren’t you attacking other fantasy series with even darker themes, like Fablehaven, The Inheritance Cycle, Wheel of Time, or Mistborn? (and no, saying Paolini has little talent doesn’t count as saying that Inheritance Cycle is evil)
  2. I’ve seen little proof that it’s turned children towards the occult. The only “proof” I’ve seen is that Onion article everyone fell for.
  3. I’m a member of a webforum where teens who read fantasy books, watch anime, and other stuff like that. Lots of them are Harry Potter fans. From what I read, they’re quite religious and Harry Potter did not deter them. Nor did the anime, fantasy, or any other non-Christian influences.
    However, I am willing to accept other points of view, as long as they’re informed opinions. If I can tell the person hasn’t even read the books, I turn it off mentally. Can someone direct me to proof that these claims have truth? I’m just curious.
 
rocklobster said:
OK, I’m a Harry Potter fan and I’m constantly angered about everyone saying it’s evil for the following reasons:
  1. Why aren’t you attacking other fantasy series with even darker themes, like Fablehaven, The Inheritance Cycle, Wheel of Time, or Mistborn? (and no, saying Paolini has little talent doesn’t count as saying that Inheritance Cycle is evil)
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I’m sorry, I’ve never heard of those ones before 😊

But, I don’t think people are saying it’s evil. People are just warning that children who see this or read it, can be led astray into trying “magic”, then start to dabble in the occult (magic). I like Harry Potter myself, but I know it’s just a story. Harry Potter is just for entertainment purposes only, but some people don’t realise that and they may try (get on and Google “how to do magic” for example) and dabble in the occust as a result.
 
rocklobster said:
OK, I’m a Harry Potter fan and I’m constantly angered about everyone saying it’s evil for the following reasons:
  1. Why aren’t you attacking other fantasy series with even darker themes, like Fablehaven, The Inheritance Cycle, Wheel of Time, or Mistborn? (and no, saying Paolini has little talent doesn’t count as saying that Inheritance Cycle is evil)
  2. I’ve seen little proof that it’s turned children towards the occult. The only “proof” I’ve seen is that Onion article everyone fell for.
  3. I’m a member of a webforum where teens who read fantasy books, watch anime, and other stuff like that. Lots of them are Harry Potter fans. From what I read, they’re quite religious and Harry Potter did not deter them. Nor did the anime, fantasy, or any other non-Christian influences.
    However, I am willing to accept other points of view, as long as they’re informed opinions. If I can tell the person hasn’t even read the books, I turn it off mentally. Can someone direct me to proof that these claims have truth? I’m just curious.
Click to expand...
It’s just ignorance and paranoia, that’s all. It seems bad to some people, so they’re convinced it is. What seems true emotionally often persuades people more than logical arguments they hear.

Because of Harry Potter’s nigh-unparalleled popularity, people probably haven’t heard of the other fantasy series you mention. If they did, I’m sure the anti-HP crowd would be against them, too.
 
LoyalViews said:
I’m sorry, I’ve never heard of those ones before 😊

But, I don’t think people are saying it’s evil. People are just warning that children who see this or read it, can be led astray into trying “magic”, then start to dabble in the occult (magic). I like Harry Potter myself, but I know it’s just a story. Harry Potter is just for entertainment purposes only, but some people don’t realise that and they may try (get on and Google “how to do magic” for example) and dabble in the occust as a result.
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In the same way a kid might pretend to be a dragon, a princess, a horse, a knight - they may well pretend to be a heroic magician like Harry Potter. Children understand it as make-pretend.
 
rocklobster said:
OK, I’m a Harry Potter fan and I’m constantly angered about everyone saying it’s evil for the following reasons:
  1. Why aren’t you attacking other fantasy series with even darker themes, like Fablehaven, The Inheritance Cycle, Wheel of Time, or Mistborn? (and no, saying Paolini has little talent doesn’t count as saying that Inheritance Cycle is evil)
Click to expand...
Awww, you beat me to it: I wouldn’t call Paolini evil, at least not in a moral sense, but he is guilty of a fair number of literary “sins” (work being too derivative, characters too idealized, etc). I have the dubious honor of once being yelled at by him on a webforum for daring to question his talent: in my defense, I’d said he has talent, he just needs to hone his craft and that I thought his too-soon fame had gone to his head.

I will admit, I’ve been in Salem, Mass. (aka “the Witch City”) and seen some pagan/new age stores selling HP books. But I personally wonder what happens when teens who’ve read HP go and try out real magick and find it’s a whole lot more complicated than what amounts to pointing a stick made of a certain kind of wood, yapping a half-gibberish Latin word and expecting Things To Happen.
 
Matrix_Refugee said:
Awww, you beat me to it: I wouldn’t call Paolini evil, at least not in a moral sense, but he is guilty of a fair number of literary “sins” (work being too derivative, characters too idealized, etc). I have the dubious honor of once being yelled at by him on a webforum for daring to question his talent: in my defense, I’d said he has talent, he just needs to hone his craft and that I thought his too-soon fame had gone to his head.

I will admit, I’ve been in Salem, Mass. (aka “the Witch City”) and seen some pagan/new age stores selling HP books. But I personally wonder what happens when teens who’ve read HP go and try out real magick and find it’s a whole lot more complicated than what amounts to pointing a stick made of a certain kind of wood, yapping a half-gibberish Latin word and expecting Things To Happen.
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It is? Really? Because even in it’s “complicated” form it’s still a bunch of nonsense. I’m not going to say 100% that “magick” doesn’t work (though I do believe that), but at the very least we have to admit it’s awfully fishy that despite the tremendous lure that some have towards this type of thing, there’s practically zero in the way of confirmed cases. One might think that something that can allegedly give you infinite power, money and companionship would be practiced more.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
One might think that something that can allegedly give you infinite power, money and companionship would be practiced more.
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And have mass applications that could’ve changed the face of our civilization in less than a century.

Yet still, 2000 years after the Resurrection and our advancements still can’t compare to the powers found in fanciful myths. I mean it took us only until the early 20th century to invent the flamethrower, yet mages in fantasy generally consider such things as one of the most basic fire spells since the dawn of their world’s time. :rolleyes:
 
PennyinCanada said:
Here is a youtube video, Letter from ex-witch regarding Harry Potter…
I was curious to know what an ex-witch, now Christian, might have to say.

youtube.com/watch?v=0JPJDTWkuf8&feature=g-vrec&context=G2b578fcRVAAAAAAAABw
Click to expand...
You are aware that video links to a site that has some very slanderous views on the Church as well? Need I also mention that said site (and said ‘ex-witch’ testimony) has been rejected on those very grounds? It’s bare-faced double standards when people accept this as ‘evidence’ yet turn a blind eye to what other looney claims these fundamentalists make.

Honestly, I sometimes go back and read just to see how much these things fail. Take this rich bit for instance.
By means of spells and magic, I was able to invoke the powers of the “controlling unknown” and fly upon the night winds transcending the astral plane.
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Translated: Delusions of self-grandeur. The term ‘astral plane’ is the dead giveaway that this person wasn’t of sound mind.
As a former witch, I can speak with authority when I say that I have examined the works of Rowling and that the Harry Potter books are training manuals for the occult.
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Talk about appeal to authority, and worse, it’s one’s own authority. :rolleyes:
As a real witch, I learned about the two sides of “the force.”
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Hm-hmm, and I’m a necromancer who animates the bodies of his slain foes after which if said zombies wind up in pieces, I just send my hunchbacked minion to pick them up so I can stitch them together and reanimate them through Frankenstein’s dark discoveries.

Speaking of which… hollers outside move faster Ikor! Hurry whilst the storm still rages! DX

Ikor: Yeeeesh master! D8> heaves and pulls Wheelbarrow o’ Corpses

.
.
.
.

See? I can make crazy claims too. I just don’t naively expect people to believe me. (Unless they’re planning on presenting themselves as their own characters. :p)
 
Lost Wanderer is absolutely right. That video is ludicrously implausible. JK Rowling is a Christian, a member of the Church of Scotland in good standing, and there is not a shred of evidence that she has ever taken part in, or indeed, knows anything about real-world witchcraft. To claim otherwise is libelous.
 
rocklobster said:
OK, I’m a Harry Potter fan and I’m constantly angered about everyone saying it’s evil for the following reasons:
  1. Why aren’t you attacking other fantasy series with even darker themes, like Fablehaven, The Inheritance Cycle, Wheel of Time, or Mistborn? (and no, saying Paolini has little talent doesn’t count as saying that Inheritance Cycle is evil)
  2. I’ve seen little proof that it’s turned children towards the occult. The only “proof” I’ve seen is that Onion article everyone fell for.
  3. I’m a member of a webforum where teens who read fantasy books, watch anime, and other stuff like that. Lots of them are Harry Potter fans. From what I read, they’re quite religious and Harry Potter did not deter them. Nor did the anime, fantasy, or any other non-Christian influences.
    However, I am willing to accept other points of view, as long as they’re informed opinions. If I can tell the person hasn’t even read the books, I turn it off mentally. Can someone direct me to proof that these claims have truth? I’m just curious.
Click to expand...
Dude, dump Happy Pothead and get yourself some Zero no Tsukaima. You have way better and more realistic protagonists, such as the kind hearted and understanding Louise Françoise le Blanc de la Vallière and her hapless and worthless dog of a familiar Saito. Happy Pothead may or may not be anti-Christian, but why bother when you can explore genuine human relationships as the ever empathetic Louise takes her hopeless familiar under her wing and guides him to some form of coherent, independent actualisation as a human being with spine and honour. 🙂 Just ask Lost Wanderer, he’ll concur.
 
LemonAndLime said:
In the same way a kid might pretend to be a dragon, a princess, a horse, a knight - they may well pretend to be a heroic magician like Harry Potter. Children understand it as make-pretend.
Click to expand...
Ah, right! Sorry, I was half-asleep after writing that post. 😊

I should have made it clearer, when I said children I meant teens more than anything. A lot (not all, not most: let me make that clear 🙂 )of teenagers (it seems) lack the maturity to understand it is make-believe, and might actually dabble in the occult because of a lack of understanding.
 
PennyinCanada said:
Here is a youtube video, Letter from ex-witch regarding Harry Potter…
I was curious to know what an ex-witch, now Christian, might have to say.

youtube.com/watch?v=0JPJDTWkuf8&feature=g-vrec&context=G2b578fcRVAAAAAAAABw
Click to expand...
This video/article is quite absurd. “As a former witch,” this person writes, “I can speak with authority when I say that I have examined the works of Rowling and that the Harry Potter books are training manuals for the occult.”

Such a claim has no credibility - read this for some perspective on this hysteria-laden issue.
Transformer said:
Lost Wanderer is absolutely right. That video is ludicrously implausible. JK Rowling is a Christian, a member of the Church of Scotland in good standing, and there is not a shred of evidence that she has ever taken part in, or indeed, knows anything about real-world witchcraft. To claim otherwise is libelous.
Click to expand...
Well said.

Actually, in an interview she was asked if she is a witch or has ever been interested in practicing magic. Her unequivocal answer was no. (My source is the interview itself as quoted in the John Granger book How Harry Cast His Spell, a structuralist exploration of the series that purports to explain its popularity).
LoyalViews said:
Ah, right! Sorry, I was half-asleep after writing that post. 😊

I should have made it clearer, when I said children I meant teens more than anything. A lot (not all, not most: let me make that clear 🙂 )of teenagers (it seems) lack the maturity to understand it is make-believe, and might actually dabble in the occult because of a lack of understanding.
Click to expand...
No, I don’t think so. The magic in Harry Potter is obviously fictional and inherently fantastical. It would literally take a profound disconnect from reality on the level of a psychiatric disorder for someone to think, for instance, that one can blast an enemy into unconsciousness by pointing at them a stick made with unicorn hair or phoenix feathers (which aren’t, after all, real) and shouting “Stupefy!” or “Petrificus Totalus!” That is what HP “magic” is like across the board.

Furthermore, even if someone *did *investigate the occult after reading the books, Harry Potter could not possibly prepare them to enjoy it, since HP “magic” is both structurally and aesthetically distinct from real-world occult practices.

If anything, they would be turned off the occult by how slow, complicated, and sketchy it is. Harry Potter magic is qualitatively different in every way: it has talking animals and flying on brooms and flashy explosions and wizard duels. It’s closer to Star Wars Jedi battles than to anything real.
 
LoyalViews said:
Ah, right! Sorry, I was half-asleep after writing that post. 😊

I should have made it clearer, when I said children I meant teens more than anything. A lot (not all, not most: let me make that clear 🙂 )of teenagers (it seems) lack the maturity to understand it is make-believe, and might actually dabble in the occult because of a lack of understanding.
Click to expand...
As someone who was until recently a teenager I disagree. I read the Harry Potters, I grew up with them. I am the same age as the main actors (give or take a year). I understood them as not-real throughout my teenage years.
 
I’m not a big fan --and yes, I read every single one of the books. I read the first back in 1999 and I did enjoy it. I thought the Hogwarts sections especially were quite well written, really evoking a ‘magical’ universe. I didn’t care for the scene where Hermione lied and took the blame about the troll, but hey, the kids were 11, and I thought that maybe as the characters aged there would be some feedback about this, hopefully with Hermione deciding that she didn’t have to change herself or lie to have friends and that Ron and Harry would have been her friend anyway. But on the whole, the first was good.

The second was not so good but again, there were well-written passages and some interesting foreshadowings, so I gave the third book a try.

Of all of them, I liked the third book best. I thought in this book in particular all of the characters were growing and developing not just in character, but in GOOD character. And so I had hopes for the fourth book. . .

Which I found greatly “over-written” (yes, the description of the Quidditch games was interesting but fluff. ) And the whole adding of Harry to the TriWizard tournament just strained the credularity department. Unbelievable. Not to mention that by this time, J.K. couldn’t even remember (and never bothered to check or verify) which parent died first when they ‘appeared’ from the wands. Major blunder.

And then book 5 which was basically Harry in teen ANGST with virtually every line of his in ALL CAPS to show his EMOTIONS. And Sirius’ death. Horrid.

Book 6 and book 7 I basically read not from desire to follow along with the characters but to see if somewhere, some how, J.K. would get back the ‘original vision’ she had (she acknowledges that she changed the books around in major ways due to either (name removed by moderator)ut from the fans which she liked ‘better’, or in finding out that the fans had figured out what she was planning for the next book, and deciding that it would play better to ‘change’.

I was very disappointed in the many dropped threads and especially in the ‘grown up’ ending. Slytherin is still ostracized, and the way to ‘have fun’ is to ignore the rules and be glad one’s a wizard and can get away with it.

But that’s just my OPINION and my take from my experiences and ideas. Just because I personally found more that I didn’t care for doesn’t detract from the fact that a lot of the concepts were fascinating, some of the writing (especially the earlier) was wonderful, and that there was nothing ‘evil’ in the way that magic and magicians etc. were portrayed as magic and magicians. IOW, I would not say, “don’t read this because it’s about magic.”

I’d say, “read it for yourself; you might enjoy it, you might not. If you enjoy it, great, enjoy it. If you don’t, well, you didn’t, so go on and read something else, until you find something you do enjoy.”
 
Tenofovir said:
Dude, dump Happy Pothead and get yourself some Zero no Tsukaima. You have way better and more realistic protagonists, such as the kind hearted and understanding Louise Françoise le Blanc de la Vallière and her hapless and worthless dog of a familiar Saito. Happy Pothead may or may not be anti-Christian, but why bother when you can explore genuine human relationships as the ever empathetic Louise takes her hopeless familiar under her wing and guides him to some form of coherent, independent actualisation as a human being with spine and honour. 🙂 Just ask Lost Wanderer, he’ll concur.
Click to expand...
D8

has turned to Stone from reading post

LW’s sister walks in

Sister: Hm? 7_7 notices Stone status >BD calls Hey, anybody here got a Gold Needle? >B)
 
I am personally oppose to HP, but with the incredible (historic really) success of the series, and of the movies, my opinions are really quire meaningless…so I won’t even waste time getting into all that. Instead, I’d like to pose a question:

Why do you care if some people remain opposed? After all, I have heard/read that something like a half-billion copies of the books have been sold, and read many times more than that. The movies are some of the most successful ever made, so in the end HP lovers should have zero reason to even discuss this issue with those opposed to the books–after all, HP won the reading hearts of the world, and those people in the less than one percent are meaningless to its success. I am quite certain HP has touched over a billion people!

So, since HP has been met with such amazing love and success, why does it seem you want to convert those last few holdouts? Why do you care?
 
irishpatrick said:
Why do you care if some people remain opposed? After all, I have heard/read that something like a half-billion copies of the books have been sold, and read many times more than that. The movies are some of the most successful ever made, so in the end HP lovers should have zero reason to even discuss this issue with those opposed to the books–after all, HP won the reading hearts of the world, and those people in the less than one percent are meaningless to its success. I am quite certain HP has touched over a billion people!

So, since HP has been met with such amazing love and success, why does it seem you want to convert those last few holdouts? Why do you care?
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Actually we don’t. I’m not even a super fan of Harry Potter. I’m just a regular fan who has a broader selection of favorite fantasy works.

It’s not so much about Harry Potter itself but the virulent and slanderous/libelous attacks against not just the books but the entire genre it belongs, the fans of said genre, and those striving to make a career writing for that same genre.

I wouldn’t be surprised if these people start attacking my name and my work next when it becomes my turn to be a famous fantasy author. :rolleyes:
 
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