Proof for existence of God?

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There are plenty of proofs for the existence of God. You can review this.

Also there is St. Thomas Aquinas’ five proofs.

There has been a series on EWTN called “New Proofs for the Existence of God” hosted by Fr. Robert Spitzer. There is supposed to be a book that accompanies the series but it hasn’t been published.:confused:
Good links. I also liked Fr. Spitzer’s series on EWTN, *Finding God through faith and reason. *They’re still repeating there periodically.
 
Good links. I also liked Fr. Spitzer’s series on EWTN, *Finding God through faith and reason. *They’re still repeating there periodically.
I have contacted Fr. Spitzer’s office about the companion book for the series. The book is supposed to be published by Notre Dame Press. I don’t know when it will be available. 😦
 
Last year I read about a discovery relating to DNA, I’ll try to dig it up and post it. The bottom line though is that the DNA is not the only carrier of genetic information.

The DNA molecule is also akin to magnetic tape or a blank CD R in that massive amounts of data are written ON the molecule itself. A language which contains letters, words, sentences, statements, context and syntax are all written on the DNA.

Please understand that in no circumstance does a language come into existance independent of a user. Language is in all cases, exclusivly a tool of a user.

Somebody wrote this language right? Or did this too just pop into existance like the big bang. The big bang indeed, if only they knew. :eek:
 
Good Day To Everybody!

In The First Place God Is Beyond Time And Space So, We Humans Cannot Comprehend Fully Because We Are Bound In Time And Space. But He Gave Us The Capacity To Grasp Partially Of Him Because We Are Coming From The Divine.

If We Believe God’s Existence And In The End He Really Exist We Gain The Whole World With Him. But If We Don’t Believe In Him And In The End He Really Exist We Lost Everything! Nonetheless, We Lose Nothing If We Believe In God.

It Is As Simple As That I Think So!

Thank You!
 
Science is dependent upon reason. It is by reason that we make conclusions based on repeatable evidence and call it science.

Even the Thomistic proofs, or at least a few of them, are dependent upon conclusions made by observation, and then reason made of them.

The fact that you can know is itself an assumption, otherwise how would you know that you know that you can’t know? (Speaking merely of knowledge)

God is an assumption that we would assume because there is no other reasonable answer. He is a root of knowledge, you cannot infinitely regress to a constantly prior cause…
 
There is saying among scientists, “You can’t put God under a microscope.” In other words, he can’t be summed up in a scientific formula or expressed in a mathematical equation. All the created universe can be encompassed by our minds, but God is greater than all that (it makes sense that he’s greater than the universe he created) and consequently he can’t be encompassed by our minds. This is the difficulty in providing incontrovertible proof of God’s existence and why his existence can be held only by faith. This doesn’t mean that belief in God is unreasonable or that there’s no evidence for his existence. It just means that there is no “incontrovertible” proof of his existence; otherwise there’d be no atheists or agnostics.

Billy Graham once said, “I know God exists because I was talking to him just this morning.” In other words, for most of us perhaps, our faith is based on our personal experience of God. Faith is like love, you can’t prove it you can only experience it.
 
God brought you in this world is that proof enough?
For the adherent to fideism who pits faith against reason it may very well be.

But reason is important Mat 22:34-40:
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt3.htm#159
“Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth.”
 

You said “If there were no God there would be no Atheists”.

The question to you is, DO you want to take the chance when you DIE TO FINE OUT?
 
I don’t know if this has been suggested yet, but there is a book by Josh McDowell called Evidence That Demands a Verdict. It’s a difficult read b/c it’s very technical. But, IIRC, he set out to try to disprove God, Christ, and the Bible and ended up becoming a Christian instead. It’s been a long time since I read it, but it’s very good from what I remember. (BTW, the link I posted takes you to what I think is his site, but if you Google it, you can find a lot of different places where you could buy it. I’m not trying to advertise the book or the site.)
 
I don’t know if this has been suggested yet, but there is a book by Josh McDowell called Evidence That Demands a Verdict. It’s a difficult read b/c it’s very technical. But, IIRC, he set out to try to disprove God, Christ, and the Bible and ended up becoming a Christian instead. It’s been a long time since I read it, but it’s very good from what I remember. (BTW, the link I posted takes you to what I think is his site, but if you Google it, you can find a lot of different places where you could buy it. I’m not trying to advertise the book or the site.)
Evidence That Demands a Verdict appears to be a questionable choice for Christian apologetics. Note the following comment regarding the book on catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9711ltrs.asp:
Editor’s reply: McDowell makes some good points but isn’t nearly rigorous enough, thus allowing non-believers to make the Christian position seem weak. I suggest you turn instead to the Handbook of Christian Apologetics, by Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli, S.J. It’s more useful than Evidence That Demands a Verdict (a fair part of which is simply wrong, from a Catholic point of view).
I think the original poster was requesting philosophical proofs for the existence of God. This doesn’t seem to be the focus of Mr. Mc Dowell’s book. I don’t know if the Handbook of Christian Apologetics would be suitable source of philosophical proofs. 🤷
 
None of these proofs are airtight; but they do point to God as being a rational explanation for existence.

Ok, im sort of agnostic and i just want to put forth some arguments against the these great arguments for the existance of God.
freesoulhope;3190894:
  1. Everything is rationally ordered, even in chaotic circumstances. Existence seems to be logically constructed in such away that it appears designed. For instance, we never see pink elephants popping out of thin air.
This sounds like an argument against the existance of god. In our natural world we see simple things like cells evolving into complex forms of life, this process can be explained by evolution.
If there were no explanation of why there were complex forms of life then it would be attributed to the supernatural.
  1. Mutations occur within living organisms which provide logical and rationally comprehensible support when placed in a specific environment. For instance we develop lungs, veins, nervous systems, all of which help us to survive and comprehend our environment to a reasonable degree. However, because matter is blind, and evolution is a blind process, it seems more then a coincidence that all theses potentialities should exist in the first place. Their actuality seems to be pre-programmed into the natural order, waiting to be caused or actualized under certain conditions—otherwise lying dormant. ]
This just further proves evolution through adaptation, everything changes because it adapts to its environment, nothing about this can be considered pre-programmed. Over millions of years our dna changes slighty to accomdate our surroundings.

im going to bed now but ill be on soon to try and answer the rest. 🙂 But just think about this
IF God is infinite he created our finite universe, but then God is a form of complex intelligence so he would need a cause. So why not take God out of the equation and go with an infinite universe?
🤷
 
I don’t know if the Handbook of Christian Apologetics would be suitable source of philosophical proofs. 🤷
I think it is. There is one section that gives ten or twenty arguments for the existence of God. Since Peter Kreeft is a philosopher by trade, there is definitely a good bit of philosophy employed in the book.
 
this process can be explained by evolution.
Yes; but these things need a pre-ordering in order to exist in the first place. What explains the nature of space? What explains the nature of energy? What explains the nature of existence in and of itself? What explains the nature of an ordered reality in which evolution can take place? These things need to exist first inorder for the other things to make sense. It seems shallow minded and highly presumptuous to me, to reduce these things to mere physics.

The theory of evolution does not remove the necessity of Gods role as a creator. For instance; the Big Bang Theory presents us with the opportunity to observe, that in order for a universe to begin to exist, not only must there be a cause, the core nature or potentiality of that universe must also be determined from the very beginning of its birth, before it can ever hope to unravel into any of the beautifull actualities which we observe today. In other words; the universe was born with its nature and potentiality; it is not the cause of it and can not be reduced to physics. If there was no time space or energy before the Big Bang (there was no before) then the potentiality or nature of our universe cannot be determined by our universe simply existing, since it needs its nature in order to exist; neither can its nature be explained by something prior to the universe existing, since there was no time. If there was a cause, it seems reasonable to assume that such a cause would have to transcend time space and energy and would also have to be the source of its potentiality.

A computer programmer can represent a blue balloon by a sequence of numbers (1 0 11 0). When the Programmer runs the script, the sequences of numbers are activated; which causes the blue balloon to ultimately fulfill its purpose of appearing on the screen. One might observe, that the random running of script data,(within a determining environment) and the sequence of numbers, are the cause of the blue balloon; and this would be correct in a shallow finite sense, but the intrinsic nature of the blue balloon, cannot be explained by the sequence of numbers, or the running of a script. The blue balloon, itself, was determined and created by something else (the computer programmer), but the means by how it came to be actualized, was due to the software (which the computer programmer also created).

We see a similar process with evolution, however, Science has nothing to say on the matter of a designer or programmer; because science can only “**measure **” and make “**observations **” of the natural world or software.

The process of evolution explains the actuality of a thing, but it doesn’t explain the potentiality which nature expresses through the evolutionary process. We can imagine a universe that has absolutely no life given potentiality, where biological organisms do not arise despite any process that would have otherwise brought us into physical existence. An atom behaves as it does because it has that potentiality or nature, and it needs the potentiality or nature in order to explain its behavior. Its mere physical being needn’t have any consequence, and by itself, it cannot explain its potentiality. Unless you refuse potentiality an explanation, one has no choice but to go beyond the physical object of which a given behavior or potentiality is actualized.

We are not just dealing with chance or random variations. Potentialities such as biological animation, love, emotion, feeling, sexuality, is an intrinsic part of nature which has been woven into the fabric of time and space and is not ultimatley the design of physical factors. It is more then the sum of its parts.

A pattern or structure of atoms gives rise to an already present or given potential. We all observe that potentialities such as consciousness arise in correlation with physical events; however the observing of such events does not provide an explanation for its potentiality. It only shows us that such things arise through a physical process. It does not show us that any process is the ultimate reality of what it produces.
If there were no explanation of why there were complex forms of life then it would be attributed to the supernatural.
The scientific evidence coupled with logic, necessity and close observation, shows us that the things we see in the universe cannot be reduced to mere physics; since physical things need first the nature of being physical; and thus cannot provide an ultimate explanation to why a thing is a thing.
Over millions of years our DNA changes slightly to accommodate our surroundings.
This does not explain its potentiality; it only explains the process, the natural cause of an actual thing.
IF God is infinite he created our finite universe, but then God is a form of complex intelligence so he would need a cause.
Why do you assume that God is complex and therefore needs a cause? Complexity only really applies to a physical object which has gained in quality or quantity. God is an immaterial eternal Mind with an Eternal Will; He is pure Actuality.
So why not take God out of the equation and go with an infinite universe?
Because an infinite universe fails to explain the origin of its potentiality. Plus the Big Bang theory is here to stay.
 
I’ve always found the relationship between a purely abstract discipline–mathematics–and the laws of physics is utterly miraculous. There is no reason the one should correspond with the other. Why, for example, do objects accelerate exponentially as opposed to some random speed? Why are gravitational pulls between objects the inverse square of the distance of their radii between their centers? And these relationships abound in every field of science. It seems to me that for that all to be a huge coincidence is itself a great leap of faith.
 
I’ve always found the relationship between a purely abstract discipline–mathematics–and the laws of physics is utterly miraculous. There is no reason the one should correspond with the other. Why, for example, do objects accelerate exponentially as opposed to some random speed? Why are gravitational pulls between objects the inverse square of the distance of their radii between their centers? And these relationships abound in every field of science. It seems to me that for that all to be a huge coincidence is itself a great leap of faith.
Its actually quite obvious that God is more reasonable then naturalism once one actually looks at the facts apart from the naturalistic propaganda and bias. Like you say; there are just too many coicidences. Naturalists themselves speak of our universe as a freaky accident. However the priciples upon which things arise “accidently”, are not accidents, and have been present since the beginning, and cannot be reasonably reduced to evolution or any physical cause.

Naturalism is simply prejudiced of the concept of God and will sonner stoop to illogical conclusions and imposibilities, before ever considering a creator. Its ultimatley shallow.

Read my post above yours.

Peace.
 
Very simply put matter can not come from nothing. Matter must ALWAYS come from something that exists. So if you go all the way back to the start of the universe where did the matter come from? Where did the matter come from that developed and exploded (the Big Bang)? God. Period. Science proves this every time.
 
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