Proof for praying to saints

[BMSODM]

Real C***

You keep saying George has done nothing to you. What logic is in that statement? He is killing your brothers and sisters, isn’t that against you?

My commands are clear. I’m not the judge, I’m the witness. I am to love one another and pray for one another. I will leave the Justice to the one who is justified to make that call.

I pray for George’s conversion, and I pray that the demons who have possessed or oppressed him will be bound and cast into the pit. I can’t hold the blind accountable for there sin’s, for they know not what they do. They are blind…If in fact they have been given eyes to see then God will judge them accordingly, not me…

The only thing I know for sure is that the demons and satan are my enemies, and that is the justice I cry out for.

Peace***

 

[BMSODM]

Real C***

You said:
“I feel compeled to warn you to worship Jesus, my friend. He is the way to salvation. Honor His mother! Pray to her but worship her son! What Mary shares with me is her example as a servant of Jesus. She prays to her Son on our behalf. But, she is not a god she is a creation! I caution you to watch your “devotion:” let it not grow so large that it over shadows your devotion to her son and become preverted. This I pray for you in the name of Jesus. Amen!”

Believe me my brother I do worship Jesus and my Mother could never point me in any other direction then Her Son. Who knows a Son better then its Mother. Yes indeed She is a creation and a perfect one at that. She became the Tabernacle that housed our Lord. Her body was perfected when The Holy Spirit became one with Her. And having the Lords blood flow like a fountian into Hers for 9 months certainly sanctified Hers. God teaches us that when a man and women make love they become one flesh and whatever God puts together no man has the right to divide. There is only one exception and that is infidelity. And as we both know Mary wasn’t with anyone else other then the Holy Spirit. She is the perfect window to what we should look through. She will always lead you to the Will of Her husband the Holy Spirit.

She is a gift an a instrument given by God to all His children. But just like any gift She needs to be opened and used to be instrumental in our lives. Don’t ever be worried of worshiping Her to much or in the wrong way. She will correct you…God will not condemn you for loving His Mother to much…

PS. the Image of Peace in my signature is a gift given by your Mother. She promises anyone who venerates Her image and pray’s for the conversion of sinner’s will receive a gift of inner peace like they never known. She also says this is the only tool left to help bring peace to the world. This image is what is holding Gods hand back from bringing His justice to mankind. This is a photo of Her standing between heaven and earth. She will personally bring anyone who honers Her Image and pray’s for poor sinners to Her Son. Her mission is of mercy and Her message is mercy. She is begging God for His mercy against His children. We need to trust in Her for She is in our Lord.

Now I understand why you are all about justice. Your lacking the maternal understanding of how to love like a women. A man is in the most need of the Blessed Mother…

 

[Chris_LaRock]

You know, there is such a thing as righteous anger. People’s willingness to wink at sin and defend sinful behavior for the sake of being “charitable” is sickening. Taking a stand against evil is what Christians are called to do, after all.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
Hi Guan,

Did anyone ever tell you that you are cute when you talk out both sides of your mouth at the same time? **

Yes, but God desires that no soul should be lost. He took upon Himself the sins of all, so that we can be redeemed from Hell.

If God “desired” that, it would be so! Yes, he made it possible for every soul to be saved. Maybe George Tiller, the Killer, will be saved. But not through my prayers I assure you!I pray that God desires justice as I do!

My point is, which you have now confirmed, is that you are offended because you do care. It is true that the man has offended God, but he has also offended anyone else with a conscience, which you clearly have.

**As you do also! I know that! **

Well…I am working on that!

**HINT: Sue him and then forgive him! **

The man is clearly your enemy, whom God has commanded that you love and forgive. He is an enemy of humanity.

**He is an enemy of humanity, My God has not commanded me to forgive and love him! IMO You misinterpet our God’s desires. **

Jesus commanded us to forgive others, just as our heavenly father has forgiven us. In what way does not “not apply”?

** Deu 27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
In what way does this not apply? **

He does, GK. whenever a person persecutes the innocent, all of us are persecuted.

**So true, a person, group, or government that persecutes the innocent ppersecutes all of us! That is why we must ask God to intervene. **

Yes, that is all any of us can do. But even if in trying to show love you fall short, that is much superior to refusing to forgive all together.
**
Yea “superior” lovers of God! Followers of the “law” ,not the spirit of God! Where have I heard them condemned?**

GK, Jesus paid the price for those sins on the cross.
**
Of course he did. I just pray that George Tiller rejects that payment! That is my right! **

I understand that you are hung up on “justice” and are unwilling to contribute to the good on this matter. I agree, it is his reparation to make. However, there is much that we can all do to make reparation for the sins of others.

**
And you think I don’t?**

Whatsoever is done to the least of society is a wound to all of us. I am noting that you attitude of “righteous indignation” precludes you from interceding for his salvation.

**You finally understand! Explain it to BM. He has a “Mary” thing that has him blinded to justice and righeous indignation! **

I did not mean to imply that you are not “ok with God”.

**Why Thank you! **

This man is an enemy of humankind,and as a human, that makes him your enemy too. What he has done has damaged all of us. His actions may bring judgement upon our whole nation, along with the actions of others like him.
**
I truly believe that is what is occuring now. We remove God from our country he turned His back on us. Seriously, we have to pray for our country.

PRAY ONE MINUTE EACH NIGHT**

During World War II, an advisor to Winston Churchill organized a national prayer movement. This group of people dropped what they were doing nightly at a prescribed hour for one minute of collective prayer for the safety of England, its people and peace. This had an amazing effect as the daily bombing stopped! There is currently a similar movement in the USA. At 8:00 PM CST, you are asked to stop what you are doing and spend one minute praying for the safety of the United States, for our troops and our citizens, for wisdom and courage for our leaders, for world peace and that the Bible will remain the basis for the laws governing our land and that Christianity will grow in the USA. Someone once said that, if people really understood the full extent of the power we have through prayer, we might be speechless. Pray for our country, for peace and for the protection of the unborn.
He is a persecuter of the innocent, and he is proof to the fundamentalist Muslims that Americans are depraved and deserving of extermination.

Yes He is!

We are called to pray for him.

**IMO, No, we are not!

Guan, you and BM are good people, It is my pleasure knowing both of you!

God Bless
**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Real C***

**
Hi BM, **

You keep saying George has done nothing to you. What logic is in that statement? He is killing your brothers and sisters, isn’t that against you?

**
It is against all of society, but more than that It is against God Almighty. **

My commands are clear. I’m not the judge, I’m the witness.

**A witness testifies! Deu 27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
In what way does this not apply? **

I am to love one another and pray for one another. I will leave the Justice to the one who is justified to make that call.

** We are called to love other christians and pray for one another. Show me a reference for your belief, please. Sorry I base my personal beliefs on the Church’s Credos and teachings, not things that make me feel good.

It is almost unbelieveable to me, that you won’t ask God for His justice. If you can’t do that, how can you ask God for anything else BM?

A few of my buddy stopped in today. The subject got around to our “discussion” here. We are all Practical Catholics, extremely devoted to the Blessed Mother, they came over for fellowship and for us to pray the rosary together.

Anyway, I reviewed the facts to them. They were “amazed” that you don’t agree with me. These men walk the line, and pray the rosary outside the Abortion Clinic with me, so maybe it is just that are more concerned with justice that you are.

I could not accept the Eucharist if I knew I was wrong. I will ask my confessor this week and let you know what he thinks about this matter. Please ask yours also! We could open a thread and see what others think. I just hate to even think about this evil animal! **

I pray for George’s conversion, and I pray that the demons who have possessed or oppressed him will be bound and cast into the pit. I can’t hold the blind accountable for there sin’s, for they know not what they do. They are blind…If in fact they have been given eyes to see then God will judge them accordingly, not me…

**I think George knows what he does. I mentioned that he baptizes the babies he murders. Then he throws their bodies into the medical waste bins!

God ,My God, where is your justice?

Did you go to the sites I sent? probably not, none are as blind as those who refuse to see! I say that you should pray to God for God to judge Him, you say you should pray that he is forgiven! **

The only thing I know for sure is that the demons and satan are my enemies, and that is the justice I cry out for.

Satan has his “children” here. Followers of His evel ways! Do you pray for the conversion of satan and the devils? BM Please answer that question “Do you pray for the conversion of Satan and the devils”?

One more thing that you can also know is that I love and respect you and totally understand your point of view. It is just not the way I understand our God, nor our faith. One thing for sure, You are a good man, BM. it is my sincere pleasure to know you!

God Bless

 

[BMSODM]

RC****

Blessings and grace unto you…

I said:“we are to love one another”
you said:
“We are called to love other christians and pray for one another. Show me a reference for your belief, please. Sorry I base my personal beliefs on the Church’s Credos and teachings, not things that make me feel good.”

How about I give you my testamony as a witness. I have had several people who I knew were not christians and I witnessed to them and prayed for there conversions. I loved them and prayed for them and they were not christians and many have come back to me, some days later, some months later and some years later and thanked me for my hand, my prayers and gave me there witness that they are now christians, This is the fruit of praying for all the world, not just christians. This is the true meaning of praying for one another. Not just christians. So let me ask you were is your reference that we should only pray for **other **christians?

“Deu 27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person.”

What about Paul? Point being people change and people that do change can be forgiven. If they refuse then cursed are they and justice will be served. God is merciful but He is also just…

"It is almost unbelieveable to me, that you won’t ask God for His justice. If you can’t do that, how can you ask God for anything else BM? "

I do ask for justice like I said. I pray all satans demons be bound and casts into the pit. And any souls who refuse to repent will be considered a demon in the end. But forgive me for crying out to God that these souls will be given every chance to repent and be converted. Ive seen hell through a window of grace and I assure you if you seen what I seen you would be begging God that not even your worst enemy would have to endure that. Its a place that only the deciever should endure for the souls he has stolen.

“I could not accept the Eucharist if I knew I was wrong.”

I know you don’t beleive your wrong, but just because you dont beleive it doesn’t make you right. But in accord with Gods grace you will be judged by your heart. I do beleive your heart means well and that is why I cry for mercy over justice because if in fact I’m right and I cry for justice over mercy you would be in trouble. But because God is merciful He will be merciful in His judgement against you for recieving in an unworthy manor. Just like if I receive in a unworthy manor I pray He will be merciful to me. Now isn’t that better then his justice, because there isn’t one of us that could survive His justice without His mercy.

You said your a contributer to the shrine of Divine Mercy. Are you sure you understand it. Did you read sister Faustina’s diary? Her whole ministry was about intercession and mercy. “For the sake of His most sorrowful passion have mercy on us and the whole world.” Us is christians, and the world is the sinners(george).

“Satan has his “children” here. Followers of His evel ways! Do you pray for the conversion of satan and the devils? BM Please answer that question “Do you pray for the conversion of Satan and the devils”?”

I have answered this. satan and the demons are fallen angels, there is no conversion for them. They have no chance, but the vessals they posess or oppress have a chance. Those I pray for.

Peace unto you***

 

[BMSODM]

RC***

I found something I think will help your passion and cause. These words are from Our Lord’s lips.

**At three o’clock, implore My mercy, especially for sinners; and, if only for a breif moment, immerse yourself in My passion, particularly in My abandonment at the moment of agony. This is the hour of great mercy…In this hour I will refuse nothing to the soul that makes a request of Me in virtue of My passion.

As often as you hear the clock strike the third hour, immerse yourself completely in My mercy, adoring and glorifying it; invoke its omnipotence for the whole world, and particularly for poor sinners; for at that moment mercy was opened wide for every soul. In this hour you can obtain everything for yourself and others for the asking; it was the hour of grace for the whole world- mercy triumphed over justice…**

This is what Jesus says about mercy and justice:

Speak to the world about My mercy…It is a sign for the endtimes; after it will come the Day of justice. You will prepare the world for My coming. Tell souls about this great mercy of mine, because the awful day, the day of justice, is near.

Before the Day of justice, I am sending the day of Mercy. I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners.

Even Our Blessed Mother says:
Determined is the day of Justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy.

Listen brother, I say this with much love. We need to use the tools God has granted us for the greater good of the Kingdom of God. I love that you pray the Rosary and the passion of the Lord will open the fountain of mercy to all souls,(all)…The chaplet is the other side of the same coin. The coin of mercy. I would suggest using the 3 o’clock hour for the abortions. Take the Lords words to heart, pray for these souls of these sinners whom ever they are, that they would be converted. And if they wont listen intercede for them. Offer the chaplet up on there behalf. Be a Saint and look at the souls and not the sins. Hear Jesus when He says,** “The greater the sinner, the greater the right he has to My mercy”**

 

[guanophore]

If George Tiller was on trial and I was on the jury I would scream from the mountain tops "Crucify Him, Crucify Him!

You are right, people don’t tend to blame the soldiers for Jesus’ death. But they have blamed the Jews. There was considerable antisemitism for centuries, and all of it based on your same reasoning that the Jews shed the blood of Chirst. You are aligning yourself with them in thought, word, and deed.

And if given the privage I would personally drive nails through his hands and feet and a wooded stake through his heart! That is just the kind of Christian I am! I would punish the child of Satan just like he tortured the children of God! It is justice.

You can sure try to justify your actions/attitude by saying this, while you are robbing God.

Deut 32:35-36
35 Vengeance is mine, and recompense,
fbecause the day of their calamity is at hand,
their doom comes swiftly.
36 Indeed the LORD will vindicate his people,

We just need to look at Paul for a minute. You don’t think some people prayed for his death?

I don’t doubt it. I think Christians have been falling short on this from the beginning. It is human nature to be vengeful.

I make no discernment. Do not judge me. I am crying out for God’s justice I am not going and harming The animal called George Tiller! There is a difference. I am asking God to provide Justice for the babies. I am not seeking to obtain justice by anyother means but God’s wrath! What is wrong with that, pray tell?

The desires of your heart described in the post above about what you would like to do to him. One who has desired vengence in his heart has committed it already.

You know, there is such a thing as righteous anger. People’s willingness to wink at sin and defend sinful behavior for the sake of being “charitable” is sickening. Taking a stand against evil is what Christians are called to do, after all.

I agree! I am not criticizing his stand at all, only the attitude in which it is taken. I dont’ see him at all “winking at sin” or being wishy washy. I don’t think that is a concern in this case.

If God “desired” that, it would be so! Yes, he made it possible for every soul to be saved.

And He desires that, but He allows people to spurn the gift, if they wish to reject His purpose for themselves. My point here is that we need to assume that George Tiller is one whom God desires to save, and come to the knowledge of the truth. This being the case, we have an obligation to facilitate God’s will by praying for it.

Maybe George Tiller, the Killer, will be saved. But not through my prayers I assure you!I pray that God desires justice as I do!

Jesus paid the price for sin. This is God’s justice. If we all got what we deserved, we would all burn in the Pit.

He is an enemy of humanity, My God has not commanded me to forgive and love him! IMO You misinterpet our God’s desires.

1 Tim 2:1-6
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for everyone, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, so that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For
there is one God;
there is also one mediator between God and humankind,
Christ Jesus, himself human,
6 who gave himself a ransom for all

The Apostle is instructing us to pray for “everyone”. This is right and acceptalbe in the sight of God who desires everyone to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the Truth. He gave Himself to meet the justice of God. Nothing more or better can be offered than His blood.

Deu 27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
In what way does this not apply?

Of course he is cursed. His actions have brought upon himself the due penalty of his sins. That is why he needs prayer!

So true, a person, group, or government that persecutes the innocent ppersecutes all of us! That is why we must ask God to intervene.

I agree. So please stop saying he has done nothing against you, because he has.

Of course he did. I just pray that George Tiller rejects that payment! That is my right!

He has already rejected that payment, as evidenced by his actions. However , you have no “right” to vengeance, or as you call it “justice”. Your responsibility, as for all of us, is to pray for his salvation.

And you think I don’t?

You are saying that you refuse to pray for his salvation.

You finally understand!

I never failed to understand. This is why I am saying he has offended you, along with all the rest of us. He has committed a wound against humanity, and as such, against all of us.

I truly believe that is what is occuring now. We remove God from our country he turned His back on us. Seriously, we have to pray for our country.

Have you ever listened to the Rosary for Life on Immaculate Heart Radio? I think you might find it helpful.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Anybody who can inject poison into the hearts of unborn children, rip them apart limb from limb, or suck their brains out like tiller does in such a casual way knows full well what they are doing. “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do” doesn’t aply here. These people are sick, sadistic monsters, and your sympathy is misplaced if you see them as victims. My sympathy is for the children they butcher.

Being filled with righteous anger towards these sick people and wanting justice for the children they kill is a virtue. This candy-coated theology of “don’t say anything mean about child killers, it isn’t nice” is sick.

I say, stone the rascals!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

RC***

I found something I think will help your passion and cause. **These words are from Our Lord’s lips **
**
Hi BM,

Those words are from .MISSION OF MERCY By: George W. Kosicki, C.S.B. From the appearance of Jesus to St. Faustina.

We are not bounded to believe this so please don’t say they are words from our lord’s lips** without added as reported by St Faustina.They might not be at all.
I also am aware of the Divine Mercy and pray it daily. But it is not church doctrine. Don’t twist facts! Use the Bible, which is inspired, to state your case.

God Bless!

At three o’clock, implore My mercy, especially for sinners; and, if only for a breif moment, immerse yourself in My passion, particularly in My abandonment at the moment of agony. This is the hour of great mercy…In this hour I will refuse nothing to the soul that makes a request of Me in virtue of My passion.

As often as you hear the clock strike the third hour, immerse yourself completely in My mercy, adoring and glorifying it; invoke its omnipotence for the whole world, and particularly for poor sinners; for at that moment mercy was opened wide for every soul. In this hour you can obtain everything for yourself and others for the asking; it was the hour of grace for the whole world- mercy triumphed over justice…

This is what Jesus says about mercy and justice:

**Speak to the world about My mercy…It is a sign for the endtimes; after it will come the Day of justice. You will prepare the world for My coming. Tell souls about this great mercy of mine, because the awful day, **the day of justice, is near.

Before the Day of justice, I am sending the day of Mercy. I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners.

Even Our Blessed Mother says:
Determined is the day of Justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy.

Listen brother, I say this with much love. We need to use the tools God has granted us for the greater good of the Kingdom of God. I love that you pray the Rosary and the passion of the Lord will open the fountain of mercy to all souls,(all)…The chaplet is the other side of the same coin. The coin of mercy. I would suggest using the 3 o’clock hour for the abortions. Take the Lords words to heart, pray for these souls of these sinners whom ever they are, that they would be converted. And if they wont listen intercede for them. Offer the chaplet up on there behalf. Be a Saint and look at the souls and not the sins. Hear Jesus when He says,** “The greater the sinner, the greater the right he has to My mercy”**

 

[BMSODM]

RealC***

You said:
“We are not bounded to believe this so please don’t say they are words from our lord’s lips without added as reported by St Faustina.They might not be at all.
I also am aware of the Divine Mercy and pray it daily. But it is not church doctrine. Don’t twist facts! Use the Bible, which is inspired, to state your case.”

Why do you pray the chaplet daily? The same one you doubt in my above post is the same one who told St. Faustina how to pray the chaplet.

It really saddens my heart when a child doesn’t know there Fathers voice, or there Mothers voice. That diary was put to the most serious test by the Church and crossed with every bit of Church doctrine. And nothing contradicts God’s Word. You should know that it takes a mountain of evidence before the Church will back anything…

Grace unto you***

 

[Realcatholicgk]

RealC***

You said:
“We are not bounded to believe this so please don’t say they are words from our lord’s lips without added as reported by St Faustina.They might not be at all.
I also am aware of the Divine Mercy and pray it daily. But it is not church doctrine. Don’t twist facts! Use the Bible, which is inspired, to state your case.”

Why do you pray the chaplet daily?
**
I offer the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of God’s Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world. I ask God for the sake of Jesus’ sorrowful Passion, to have mercy on us and on the whole world. ****I am hoping that by my praying this God will grant me great Mercy at the hour of my death as was told to St Faustina. It is a beautiful devotion with a powerful message.That in no way means that it came to us exactly as stated. I say again “It is not church doctrine”. Don’t twist facts! The church will verify it in its time as to weather Jesus actually spoke those words. You have no authority to state it as a fact until then do you? **

The same one you doubt in my above post is the same one who told St. Faustina how to pray the chaplet.

So we may believe! I am saying just don’t state it as “fact” It has not been proven. That is my only point, my lovely friend. I have no fight that it may indeed be true. I know it is a powerful prayer. I believe God is answering our prayers by not bringing His wrath down on our nation.

**
BM Where did I say I DOUBTED? You always put or take words in and out of people’s mouths. WHY? I said that they may not be at all. Not that I personally didn’t believe they were. In my opinion They may well be.And that is how I would state it! As my opinion or St Faustina’s not as Fact!

I do love the prayers and am sure that God does also! They are very powerful prayers!

I still stand by what I said:"We are not bounded to believe this so please don’t say they are words from our lord’s lips without added as reported by St Faustina**. *
*

It really saddens my heart when a child doesn’t know their Fathers voice, or their Mothers voice.

**It really saddens my heart when people believe things so easily, or assume they are always right, when I am always right! **

That diary was put to the most serious test by the Church and crossed with every bit of Church doctrine. And nothing contradicts God’s Word.

**
I knew that, and things like this are tested for very good reasons, don’t you think? What is your point? That because it doesn’t contradict God’s Word that that fact makes it TRUE? Many False things could past that test! Time will tell and the church will rule, or not! **

You should know that it takes a mountain of evidence before the Church will back anything…

**I do, and for very good reasons! So until that time, shouldn’t we refrain from saying they are words from Jesus’ Lips? Even creation and evolution are still considered theorys and we are permitted to believe either version, so long as what we believe doesn’t conflict with the revealed truths of creation.

Lets not hijack this thread anymore. We have to provide proof for praying to saints, not Jesus!

God Bless

**
Grace unto you***

 

[rinnie]

I am a Protestant but I’ve recently become interested in the Catholic faith. One of my concerns with Catholicism, though, is saints. I’ve sort of been taught that Cathlics worship saints, especially through prayer. I’ve talked to some of my Catholic friends about it and they say it isn’t worship, and that what they’re doing is intercessory prayer. what exactly is that? also, is there biblical proof that we should pray to saints?
I want to get a Catholic point of view on this, I don’t want to base all my opinions just on what Protestants say, because I know there is some bias there.

Hi Elizabeth and welcome. The best way to answer you question is Catholics only worship God. To worships anyone but God would be breaking a commandment and the Church would never go against its own rules.

Second we go to the saints because they have lived their Life in a way that is pleasing to God. And if someone lives in a way that is pleasing to God we know he listens to their prayers.

By going to them is no different then me going to you and asking you to pray for me. We never ask them anything but to pray for us. Its a simple as that. Hope that helps.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Blessings and grace unto you…
**
Hi BM,

You can’t seem to understand. Have you ever had classes in logic? It might help you if you could take a course. I feel like I am swimming in mud trying to explain simple facts logically. We both seem to agree, but you want to agrue over nits while stating things as fact that clearly aren’t so. And then you try to justify them by disagreeing that they aren’t facts. Hmmm . Anyway ,here we go again!

You said:“we are to love one another”

I said: *“We are called to love other christians ***and pray for one another. Show me a reference for your belief, Please. Sorry, I base my personal beliefs on the Church’s Credos and teachings, not things that make me feel good.”

You said: “How about I give you my testamony as a witness…”

ITo that I must say NO! That doesn’t answer the question nor prove anything! That isn’t acceptable to trump scripture! They sell snake oil by personal testamony. Go to www.Protastant101.net and read the “personal testamony” of why That man believes the SDA is the correct church, not the Catholic church. Like your story very touching proving what? Personal opinion and testamony only proves that you have lived and can read, I believe both of those facts. Now prove to me, using scripture, that we are called to love children of the devil as you tell me with such authority. That is all I ask…

I can help you by telling you there isn’t one in the entire bible, OT or NT so what you said “isn’t true!”

In fact int he New Testament, there are over 50 different references about “one another”: love one another, bear one another’s burdens, pray for one another, and serve one another are just a few. All of these are addressed to “christians” for “christians”!

So many times Christians remember only two things:

God is Love
Love One another
The problem with that is they forget the fulliness of God, and attempt to limit God. Foolishness at it best. And they forget that the messages in scripture are written for Christians! We are commanded to Love “one another”. Not non-believers or children of God. Yes, we are told to pray for them. But I ask you to show me one verse that says love a non-believer, or a child of the devil. until they convert. Read: Acts 1:14; and James 5:16

**
I said and I repeat *“We are called to love other christians ***and pray for one another.” Again I say: “Show me a reference for your belief, please! Sorry I already told you and again remind you that I base my personal beliefs on the Church’s Credos and teachings, not things that make me feel good.” So if you don’t agree with me, it is you who doesn’t agree with our church not me! It is that simple. If I am wrong, prove it! /I]

You said: What about Paul? Point being people change and people that do change can be forgiven. If they refuse then cursed are they and justice will be served. God is merciful but He is also just…

Yea I agree! And I pray for His Justice

I do ask for justice like I said. I pray all satans demons be bound and casts into the pit. And any souls who refuse to repent will be considered a demon in the end. But forgive me for crying out to God that these souls will be given every chance to repent and be converted. I ve seen hell through a window of grace and I assure you if you seen what I seen you would be begging God that not even your worst enemy would have to endure that. Its a place that only the deciever should endure for the souls he has stolen.

**BM, Now that is good personal testamony! Very nicely said. I would think that the last line should be changed to say " Its a place that only the deciever should endure WITH the souls he has stolen" But it is your testamony. The reason I said that is that would put it in compliance with the teachings of our church!
I actually lived in Hell! 1 year 1865-1966, Jungles of Vietnam! 54 confirmed kills before becoming disabled by gun shot wounds. I would never think to baptize one of my enemy like George Tiller does the 60 thousand he murders!However, I still pray for their souls, every day. I also pray for their families that I inflicted pain on. But I did not “murder” one of them! **

You said your a contributer to the shrine of Divine Mercy. Are you sure you understand it.

Better than you do our religion it would seem.

Did you read sister Faustina’s diary? Her whole ministry was about intercession and mercy. “For the sake of His most sorrowful passion have mercy on us and the whole world.” Us is christians, and the world is the sinners(george).

**Yes. I know. And I know! I pray it 50 times a day! **

“Satan has his “children” here. Followers of His evel ways! Do you pray for the conversion of satan and the devils? BM Please answer that question “Do you pray for the conversion of Satan and the devils”?”

I have answered this. satan and the demons are fallen angels, there is no conversion for them. They have no chance, but the vessals they posess or oppress have a chance. Those I pray for.
**
God is all powerful. I actually believe He could convert Satan! He is all powerful. But I also believe He won’t because it wouldn’t be Just! I believe God is a God of justice, That is why He will judge us! I am so glad That "Jesus paid a debt He didn’t owe, because we owed a debt that we couldn’t pay!

You are a good person. It is my pleasure to know you!

God Bless**

Peace unto you***

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hi Elizabeth and welcome. The best way to answer you question is Catholics only worship God. To worships anyone but God would be breaking a commandment and the Church would never go against its own rules.

Second we go to the saints because they have lived their Life in a way that is pleasing to God. And if someone lives in a way that is pleasing to God we know he listens to their prayers.

By going to them is no different then me going to you and asking you to pray for me. We never ask them anything but to pray for us. Its a simple as that. Hope that helps.

**Hi rinie, “wave”

Thanks rinnie! I hope this gets the thread back on point. I wonder whatever happeded to Elizabeth she only posted three times, the last time on November 3.
I will pray to the saints that we can keep this thread on point. It is a good subject. Mary Tyler Moore said “words once spoken have a life of their own” It appears that way.

My favorite Saints are: Blessed Mother Mary; Pope St. Gregory I (“the Great”); St Augustine; St. Faustina’; St Francis; and dozens more.

I believe that Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, will someday be named a saint! I loved his TV Show when I was a child. It is still shown…

"There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church.- Bishop Fulton J. Sheen

God Bless**

 

[BMSODM]

Blessings RC***

You asked"I said and I repeat *“We are called to love other christians and pray for one another.” Again I say: "Show me a reference for your belief, please! "

*43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies*, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Ok I’m done discussing this topic with you. I don’t want to be accused of highjacking the thread. I feel I have presented enough Truth in my replies. It is up to you whether or not you can accept it. You made your case as I did and I’m sure justice will be handed down in the last day. I just pray God will have mercy on both of us and the whole world(all sinners) on that day.

Peace be with you****

 

[Chris_LaRock]

**I believe that Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, will someday be named a saint! I loved his TV Show when I was a child. It is still shown…

"There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church.- Bishop Fulton J. Sheen**

I wonder if they have it out on dvd yet.

But with regard to praying to saints, I have one for you. St. Paul states in Galatians that God isn’t a respecter of persons, I.E. God doesn’t show favortism. Could that be used to prove that God wouldn’t elevate a dead saint to a level where we would be allowed to pray to them?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I wonder if they have it out on dvd yet.

But with regard to praying to saints, I have one for you. St. Paul states in Galatians that God isn’t a respecter of persons, I.E. God doesn’t show favortism.

Could that be used to prove that God wouldn’t elevate a dead saint to a level where we would be allowed to pray to them?
**
Hi Chris,

It might! Many things can be twisted to prove anything a person wants proven if they don’t want the truth. However Paul was referring to the leaders and big names in the early church:
" . . . those who seem to be something – whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man" – Galatians 2:6
So actually the apostle was writing about the so-called pillars of the church, including Peter, James and John (Galatians 2:9). He had in mind the most intimate friends of Jesus when he wrote that God has no favorites.

Some people say the saints are dead. It is true that their bodies are in the ground, But make no mistake, they are alive with God. Many places in the Bible show that fact. I never go to a cemetery and pray to the people in the graves. I do go and lay flowers and pray to their soul which lives with God. If not for the flowers I can do that at home and often do.

We are all connected, the living and the dead. We can communicate with each other. We are “one”. Believe that and you have found God!

God Bless**

 

[BMSODM]

I wonder if they have it out on dvd yet.

But with regard to praying to saints, I have one for you. St. Paul states in Galatians that God isn’t a respecter of persons, I.E. God doesn’t show favortism. Could that be used to prove that God wouldn’t elevate a dead saint to a level where we would be allowed to pray to them?

He doesn’t show favortism?? Humm,are you sure of that?

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

I could post tons of other scripture but I don’t think you can refute this scripture. Notice it was Mary’s obedience that willed God’s favour. God desires obedience and when obedient you gain favour with God…

We have eternal life, only the body dies but the soul never dies. Whether your bad or good doesn’t matter, your soul will not die. So whether your soul is going to God or satan it doesn’t die. So your point about a saint being dead makes no point. And God makes a vessal in accord to His Will and if He finds favour with a vessal because of there obedience, then He can very well elevate that soul as an intercessor to help advance His Kingdom…

Grace and Peace***

 

[guanophore]

I wonder if they have it out on dvd yet.

But with regard to praying to saints, I have one for you. St. Paul states in Galatians that God isn’t a respecter of persons, I.E. God doesn’t show favortism. Could that be used to prove that God wouldn’t elevate a dead saint to a level where we would be allowed to pray to them?

When Paul writes that God is no “respecter” he means that the same is possible for all of us. All of us are called to be saints.

There are a couple errors in your question, though. God does not elevate the dead, but the living. When we are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, we are united with God in Christ. We are seated with him in the heavens. This "elevation’ is part of the birthright of our baptism.

Furthermore, you seem to have a misunderstanding about the use of the word “prayer” here. It means to ask/supplicate. It is no different than me asking for your prayers. If I say to you, Chris, will you pray for me? have I somehow “elevated” you, or asked you to do something God did not empower you to do?