Proof for praying to saints

[Chris_LaRock]

Well Chris you show me a Priest, Pope, Bishop, etc in the RCC that fail to teach this, or fail to live up to these teachings. Just because a Person is Catholic does not mean they practice the faith. But again show me a teacher of the faith that does not teach Pro-Life!

Wasn’t there a Bishop during the 2008 election who declared the abortion issue to be a lost cause, and endorsed mr. pro-abort?

Show me one instance where a Catholic leader has been excommunicated for their role in promoting evil. I can’t think of any.

But with regard to praying to saints, what do you think the saints in heaven would want us to pray for in this instance? Excommunication for these pro-death people, or would they want us to ignore them and pretend they aren’t there?

 

[BMSODM]

It’s not really an issue with the truthfulness of doctrine. Just a failure to enforce teachings that bothers me.

Blessings***

Even though you never finish a conversation with me I wont leave you…

How can you walk away from the Real Presence in the Eucharist because of mans failures? How does this Glorify God?

Please explain…Peace unto you***

 

[guanophore]

Well let me set the record straight Chris. No Catholic can be an unrepentant sinner as you put it and receive the Body of Christ. The Catholic Church has confession so that cannot happen.

Perhaps this is just worded poorly, which is why it sounds incorrect. Indeed a Catholic can be an unrepentant sinner and still receive. I would venture to guess that the majority of Catholics in America are in this state of mortal sin. When they do so, they bring further condemnation upon themselves for receiving profanely.

However, it is true that confession is to prevent this from happening.

You claim that someone can be Catholic and also be pro-death?  Well here's a shocker for ya Chris.  If a person is Catholic and is not Pro-life guess what?  They are not following the Catholic Religion.

Chris knows this. His objection is to the fact that the church does not formally reprimand and excommunicate the offenders.

Do not blame the Church for the sins of the followers. The Church is perfect in every way. The followers are humans and sinners. Where is it stated in the Teachings of the RCC that its followers are perfect? You will not find it Chris. You will find one thing perfect in the RCC and it is the Church itself.

I will echo this, and further state that the Church is Holy because she is ensouled by the HS, and her head is Christ. It is the divine elements of the Church that make her Holy.

The Church teaches the Truth.  But as the Jesus says not all will follow the truth.  If you can show me where in the RCC the teachings are false I will be willing to defend my Church. But please do not confuse the Church's teachings with the actions of humans.

I think Chris knows that these offenders are violating the Teaching of the Church. He wants some sort of public shaming about it, stocks, flogging, or burning at the stake, I think.

 

[rinnie]

Wasn’t there a Bishop during the 2008 election who declared the abortion issue to be a lost cause, and endorsed mr. pro-abort?

Show me one instance where a Catholic leader has been excommunicated for their role in promoting evil. I can’t think of any.

But with regard to praying to saints, what do you think the saints in heaven would want us to pray for in this instance? Excommunication for these pro-death people, or would they want us to ignore them and pretend they aren’t there?

Again Chris you need to show me Proof of A Bishop in the RCC that endorsed abortion. No wasn’t there, or I heard. You accuse the RCC you show me proof. Then we can see.

Next the RCC is not about excommunicating People it is about having people confessing their sin, asking God for forgiveness and to live the way Christ wants us.

No I don’t think any saint would want to lose any person, they would ask us to pray for their soul and hope before they die that they can confess their sins and live according to Gods plan. You are like hey you broke the law your outta here, If that were the fact there would be no one left in the Church. We are all sinners Chris. We are Catholic not perfect. You act like once we are Catholic we cannot fall to sin or something.

 

[BMSODM]

Show me one instance where a Catholic leader has been excommunicated for their role in promoting evil. I can’t think of any

Blessings***

Ok here is an example of a couple of priest who have been excommunicated. Its about the counterfit of Medjugorje were the Blessed Mother has supposely been appearing since 1981.

Jan. 1982: The Virgin states that two Franciscan priests, removed from their order (Excommunicated)and under suspension by the bishop, one of whom later fathered a child by a nun, may continue to say Mass and hear Confessions. Vicka the seer is asked “If the Lady said this, and the Pope says that they cannot…” Vicka answers: “The Pope can say what he wants. I’m telling it as it is.” (from Bishop Zanic’s document, 1990)

I beleive one of the Priest names is Fr. Gobbi. He is a frawd and the Church has excommunicated him. It saddens my heart when a child of God cant reconize there Mother’s voice

This is an example of an obvious teaching that goes against the Church teachings. This proves Medjugorje is a hoax…

Peace***

 

[rinnie]

Guan, you may say that is was poorly stated, but I stand by what I said. If a Catholic is in sin they should not receive communion, and according to the RCC cannot. That is the teachings if the RCC.

 

[guanophore]

Wasn’t there a Bishop during the 2008 election who declared the abortion issue to be a lost cause, and endorsed mr. pro-abort?

Show me one instance where a Catholic leader has been excommunicated for their role in promoting evil. I can’t think of any.

But with regard to praying to saints, what do you think the saints in heaven would want us to pray for in this instance? Excommunication for these pro-death people, or would they want us to ignore them and pretend they aren’t there?

Neither. We are to pray most fervently for their conversion. This would be a much better use of our energies than criticizing the pastors.

We should pray for the pastors too, that they may be given the guidance and fortitude of God, so that they can be a strong voice against corruption and the culture of death.

And we should buy Fr. Corapi’s CD’s and give them to everyone!

 

[guanophore]

Guan, you may say that is was poorly stated, but I stand by what I said. If a Catholic is in sin they should not receive communion, and according to the RCC cannot. That is the teachings if the RCC.

I don’t disagree that they should not, and ought not. Of course these are the teachings of the Church. But your post said they “cannot” which is not the case. These disobedient persons present themselves for communion even when they are in mortal sin. It does happen, it is happening. This is one of Chris’s legitimate complaints about the Catholic Church. People who claim to be Catholic are espousing abortion publicly and are still admitted to communion.

He says if this is stopped, he will become a Catholic.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

This is one of Chris’s legitimate complaints about the Catholic Church. People who claim to be Catholic are espousing abortion publicly and are still admitted to communion.

He says if this is stopped, he will become a Catholic.

The offer still stands.

But I can’t convert in good conscience as long as the church teachings aren’t enforced. My Lutheran church I used to go to would excommunicate people all the time for bad behavior. A pastor was excommunicated for cheating on his wife, and the congregation itself had many excommunicated for living in sin too.

If the RCC is the true church, I would like to see that kind of agressiveness take place.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t disagree that they should not, and ought not. Of course these are the teachings of the Church. But your post said they “cannot” which is not the case. These disobedient persons present themselves for communion even when they are in mortal sin. It does happen, it is happening. This is one of Chris’s legitimate complaints about the Catholic Church. People who claim to be Catholic are espousing abortion publicly and are still admitted to communion.

He says if this is stopped, he will become a Catholic.

Well I don’t see how anyone can judge another human being. How can anyone say who is worthy of going to communion. Who know what that person has confessed or hasn’t?

Now if a person goes to communion and is in sin, and is not aware of it. that is another bag of worms. But any person who is Catholic and values the faith knows that they cannot go to communion if they are in a state of sin. And if they value their faith and know it why would they bring down that upon themsleves. I mean what good would it do them. Again the Church teaches this, if you are in a state of sin, No communion. Thats it. And I don’t see when any of us can stand in judgement of another human being. Like my Mother said you confess your sins let me confess my own. And like my Dad always said when you get done with your own sins you won’ t have time to worry about any one else.

 

[rinnie]

The offer still stands.

But I can’t convert in good conscience as long as the church teachings aren’t enforced. My Lutheran church I used to go to would excommunicate people all the time for bad behavior. A pastor was excommunicated for cheating on his wife, and the congregation itself had many excommunicated for living in sin too.

If the RCC is the true church, I would like to see that kind of agressiveness take place.

Chris if you wouldn’t mind me asking what is there to gain to throw sinners out of the Church. Is that what Jesus did. Speaking for myself I go to church because I am a sinner. I go there to spend time with God and ask him to give me grace to be a better person. What good would it do for Father to put me on trial for my sins and throw me out of the Church. How is that saving souls? Father told me he is not there to judge me he is there to help me, to bring me closer to God, not throw me to the wolves.

 

[BMSODM]

**The offer still stands.**But I can’t convert in good conscience as long as the church teachings aren’t enforced. My Lutheran church I used to go to would excommunicate people all the time for bad behavior. A pastor was excommunicated for cheating on his wife, and the congregation itself had many excommunicated for living in sin too.

If the RCC is the true church, I would like to see that kind of agressiveness take place.

Chris do you or do you not beleive the Eucharist is the real presence? (the actuall Body and Blood of Jesus)

 

[jlhargus]

My argument is this: if we spiritually pray to people while they are physically alive they cannot hear us, therefore in order for them to be able to spiritually hear us after their physical death, there must be a spiritual change in them. My question is: what is the evidence such a change takes place?

JL: There is a spiritual change in them, they are no longer limited by the body or time. They now know even as they are known, they are perfectly united to God. [Lk15:10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy **in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.] Those rejoying in the presence of angels would be the souls of the saints. If they know when ever sinner repents, why can’t they know our prayers.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Chris do you or do you not beleive the Eucharist is the real presence? (the actuall Body and Blood of Jesus)

It’s possible. After all, the Jewish passover utilized the literal body and blood of the passover lamb.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Chris if you wouldn’t mind me asking what is there to gain to throw sinners out of the Church. Is that what Jesus did. Speaking for myself I go to church because I am a sinner. I go there to spend time with God and ask him to give me grace to be a better person. What good would it do for Father to put me on trial for my sins and throw me out of the Church. How is that saving souls? Father told me he is not there to judge me he is there to help me, to bring me closer to God, not throw me to the wolves.

But if you were unrepentant and were engaging in activities that caused the deaths of children, that would be different. Such people are in open rebellion to Christ, and I see nothing wrong with expelling them.

Maybe the public shame of being excommunicated would cause many of them to reassess their activities and repent?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I think Chris knows that these offenders are violating the Teaching of the Church. He wants some sort of public shaming about it, stocks, flogging, or burning at the stake, I think.

**

Hi guan,
I also think so. Sign me up for the flogging! I would love to flog them and some Protestants also might I add. I only ask God to have Killer George Tiller the first in line for flogging. He would be on the way to judgement before my arm got tired of flogging him!

But if God rather I burn Him at the stake I am all for that also!

God Bless**

 

[rinnie]

But if you were unrepentant and were engaging in activities that caused the deaths of children, that would be different. Such people are in open rebellion to Christ, and I see nothing wrong with expelling them.

Maybe the public shame of being excommunicated would cause many of them to reassess their activities and repent?

Chris I am sorry and Guan to on one account, UNrepentant. I was so busy today and it went right over my head. Yes if A person does not repent is going to have to face God and I would not want to be in that position. But here is the thing Chris the Church teaches us to repent, that is what the RCC is all about repenting, confessing your sins, and to not sin again. But here is the thing Chris why would someone go to church every Sunday, and be this way. It would be hard to believe, now if a person is comming to church every Sunday and are this way (which I guess is possible) would they still not have a better chance of seeing the Light of Christ then staying away,

See you can’t shame someone into repenting Chris. That would not be sincere anyway and God would know. I think God has his ways of getting People to repent in his own way, and God does not do in for everyone to enjoy. Look at Mary, he told her she is forgiven and sin no more, He could have given it to her, but he did not. He showed others who can throw the first stone. He did not leave he off the hook he said sin no more. That is what Church is, as long as you are trying and going every Sunday you are making an effort and God knows that. God knows our flaws but loves us anyway.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

The offer still stands.

But I can’t convert in good conscience as long as the church teachings aren’t enforced. My Lutheran church I used to go to would excommunicate people all the time for bad behavior. A pastor was excommunicated for cheating on his wife, and the congregation itself had many excommunicated for living in sin too.

If the RCC is the true church, I would like to see that kind of agressiveness take place.

**Hi Chris,

Ah, But it is the true church! What you would like to see and Myself also,doesn’t matter at all! It may not be what Jesus wants to happen in His church, for what ever reason.

We are called to be the best citizens we can be. Of our country and of our religiolist beliefs. If abortion being allowed is the “deciding factor” with you, Why don’t you leave the USA and go to a country that will not allow abortion? There are many actually. Why stay here? Don’t be a hyprocrite! What the Catholic church does or doesn’t do isn’t a issue with you at all. You just do not have Faith. That is the plain truth. Bribe you to become catholic, Yea, right! Like we need more weak Catholics that don’t believe anything but their own selffish needs and desires!

I am required to be the best Catholic I can be and you should try to be the best whatever you may think you are, (I personally don’t think you “Believe in anything”. If you did, you would practice that religion!)

I told you several times, It is not for outsiders to judge The church. We the people are the church! We as the members of the body of christ will scratch our own iches. Thank you very much!

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Chris I am sorry and Guan to on one account, UNrepentant. I was so busy today and it went right over my head. Yes if A person does not repent is going to have to face God and I would not want to be in that position. But here is the thing Chris the Church teaches us to repent, that is what the RCC is all about repenting, confessing your sins, and to not sin again. But here is the thing Chris why would someone go to church every Sunday, and be this way. It would be hard to believe, now if a person is comming to church every Sunday and are this way (which I guess is possible) would they still not have a better chance of seeing the Light of Christ then staying away,

See you can’t shame someone into repenting Chris. That would not be sincere anyway and God would know. I think God has his ways of getting People to repent in his own way, and God does not do in for everyone to enjoy. Look at Mary, he told her she is forgiven and sin no more, He could have given it to her, but he did not. He showed others who can throw the first stone. He did not leave he off the hook he said sin no more. That is what Church is, as long as you are trying and going every Sunday you are making an effort and God knows that. God knows our flaws but loves us anyway.

**
Hi rinnie,

Well said! . Do you know you are verbose and use a lot of wrords too?

God Bless**

 

[rinnie]

**
Hi rinnie,

Well said! . Do you know you are verbose and use a lot of wrords too?

God Bless**

Hello Love, I know I will try to be short and sweet the next time!:hug1: