Proof for praying to saints

[Realcatholicgk]

RealCatholic…&c…&c…&c
Peace unto you***

**

Hi, BM,
And unto you! I actually understand what you are saying.You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you in most things. I am what is know as a Power Catholic. It is a small group of Catholics that follow the lead of Fr. John Corapi. We live our lives according to our simple Motto:
[SIGN] ** Power Catholic’s Motto**
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says… ‘Oh hell…he’s awake!!’ [/SIGN]

We call Protestants heretics! You can call them “Separated Brothers and Sisters” because they are. You can say they aren’t living in the fulliness of christ, we agree! In 1517, the Protestant Reformation, an attempt by Martin Luther to reform the Roman Catholic Church resulted in a schism, The devil caused a cancer to develop on the body of Christ. Since then this “cancerous” growth on the body of christ has grown to 33,000 counterfeit denominations with 28,000 subdenominations practicing 1,375 different doctrines and dogmas. The only thing they all agree with is that the Catholic Church is wrong!

What you don’t realize is that unlike Protestants we harbor no hate. We realize that these aren’t “evil” people. How they deform God’s word, disrespect the Mother of God, refuse to summit to the God giving authority of the Catholic Church “is” evil, sinful, and punishable by God.

I no more think they are destined for Hell because they are Protestants than I think I will obtain Heaven because I am a Catholic. They may be saved, God is mercyful.

Many people misunderstand our forcefulness as anger. That is so wrong! It is out of real love that we Yell and cry out that they are sinners and need to come into the CC to receive real salvation.That was Jesus’ promise. There are others who are gentle. God Bless them! There are those who think we are too harsh.:ehh: How much harder do you think God wrath is going to be when they are judged, with Jesus there as their mediator, when God asks them “You heard the truth, why did you ignore it?”

They think the CC is wrong, we yell out that it is the unerring church established by Jesus 2,000 years ago! If you think people like Me and Fr Carapi are wrong, read your bible:

When Jesus cleared the temple of the money changers and animal-sellers, He showed "great emotion and anger "(Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22).
Jesus’ emotion was described as “zeal” for God’s house (John 2:17).
His anger was pure and completely justified because at its root was concern for God’s holiness and worship. Because these were at stake, Jesus took fast and furious action.

Another time Jesus showed anger was in the synagogue of Capernaum. When the Pharisees refused to answer Jesus’ questions, “He . . . looked round about them with anger” (Mark 3:5).
Can you imaging Jesus angry? Now, what do you think he facial expression will be when he encounters these “christians” that disrespect HIS MOTHER?

Many times, we think of anger as a selfish, destructive emotion that we should eradicate from our lives altogether. To be more Christ like. . We should love our brother, we should pray for our brother.,
The fact that Jesus did sometimes become angry indicates that anger itself, as an emotion, is “amoral.” Ephesians 4:26 instructs us to “be angry, and sin not,” The command is not to “avoid anger” but to deal with it properly, in a timely manner.

Note the following facts about Jesus’ displays of anger:

1. His anger had the proper motivation. He was angry for the right reasons. Jesus’ anger did not arise from petty arguments or personal slights against Him. There was no selfishness.
2. His anger had the proper focus. He was not angry at God or at the “weaknesses” of others. His anger targeted sinful behavior and true injustice.
3. His anger had the proper supplement. Mark 3:5 says that His anger was over the Pharisees’ lack of faith. Jesus’ anger stemmed from love for the Pharisees and concern for their spiritual condition. It had nothing to do with hatred or ill will.
4. His anger had the proper control. Jesus was never “out of control,” even in His wrath. The temple leaders did not like His cleansing of the temple (Luke 19:47), but He had done nothing amiss.
5. His anger had the proper duration. He did not allow His anger to turn into bitterness; He did not hold grudges. He dealt with each situation properly.
6. His anger had the proper result. Jesus’ anger had the inevitable consequence of godly action. Jesus’ anger, as with all His emotions, was held in check by the Word of God; thus, Jesus’ response was always to accomplish God’s will.

When people get angry, too often they have improper control or an improper focus. They fail in one or more of the above points. This is the “wrath of man,” which “worketh not the righteousness of God” (James 1:20). Jesus did not exhibit the “wrath of man”

We attempt to show the follower of these counterfeit denominations the truth in a forceful way that we think is much more gentle that God will ever be to them. Plus, He will judge them. I pray for every one alike. I do works of mercy, I preform random acts of kindness. I adore our Blessed Mother Mary and consume the body and blood of my lord and savior Jesus Christ. AndI I pray to thr Saints for my fellow separated christian brethren .

We are not mean! We don’t attack the good people filled with love. It is the idots we attack and forcefully with the word of God.

Thank you for your opinion. I wrote it down. If I ever need any guidance I will refer to the list of People Who’s Opinion Doesn’t Matter and see if I can use anything you provided!:coffeeread:

**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Congratulations: You’ve just won the Understatment of the Year Award

and your prize is: you get to listen to my opinions…

Anyway, i love praying to saints because they used to be human just like me…

and they overcame that…

**
Protestants Bias? freesmileys.org/smileys/laughing006.gif Who would have thunk? **

 

[BMSODM]

Realcatholic***

I love your zeal and I feel the same way about my brothers and sisters. It pains my heart greatly when they bash our church and the very real presence of our Lord and expecially our Most Holy and Blessed Mother. I could very easily get angry and it would be justified anger. But here is the problem, I was one of these children who did all those things. I mocked and condemned the RC and I was a very devote christian. I did nothing but read the bible and preach the cross 24/7. I did this to the point were I just about lost everyone I ever new. I had one hand on the bible and one eye on the sin of the souls of the world. I was determined to be just like Paul and walk the land with only one love and that was Jesus alone. Sola Scripture was my life for 5 yrs. I was a Power Evangelical Christian…

You see, if I came across someone like you I would go to war with you and use the same scriptures you just posted. I was completely justified in my own eyes and had the weapons I needed to defend you. But as you know I was leaning on my own understanding, which didnt make be a bad christian or didnt make me love God any less, and certainly didnt make God love me any less. Because I was following God with my whole heart and that was what God was seeing. I know this because He granted me many graces for the Love I showed Him (even though I was dead wrong).

If a man was blind and continued to fall in the same hole day after day even though you keep showing him were the hole is would you be angry at him? or would you continue to show him compassion and even though you see the hole clearly because God gave you the grace of sight, and he continue’s to fall, wouldnt you be merciful knowing he is blind and obviously confused?

You see my brother Jesus had the right heart when He turned the tables because He had no sin, you and I my friend do have sin so we are not called to be the Judge, we are called to be witnesses to what God does for us and what God shows us. We are not Gods lawyers in this trial. And our testamony is only as good as it is received.

Peace unto you***

 

[twb1621]

**

Hi, BM,
And unto you! I actually understand what you are saying.You may be surprised to learn that I agree with you in most things. I am what is know as a Power Catholic. It is a small group of Catholics that follow the lead of Fr. John Corapi. We live our lives according to our simple Motto:
[SIGN] ** Power Catholic’s Motto****
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders & says… ‘Oh hell…he’s awake!!’ [/SIGN]

We call Protestants heretics! You can call them “Separated Brothers and Sisters” because they are. You can say they aren’t living in the fulliness of christ, we agree! In 1517, the Protestant Reformation, an attempt by Martin Luther to reform the Roman Catholic Church resulted in a schism, The devil caused a cancer to develop on the body of Christ. Since then this “cancerous” growth on the body of christ has grown to 33,000 counterfeit denominations with 28,000 subdenominations practicing 1,375 different doctrines and dogmas. The only thing they all agree with is that the Catholic Church is wrong!

I also am a faithful follower of Father Corapi among others. He is a “tough love” kind of preacher but he is usually preaching that way to Catholics. His approach to non-Catholics is with certainty in his message but respect to their position. But we must keep in mind first and foremost to practice humility and be humble. When I tend to reach any level of frustration in dealing with issues such as this I try to keep in mind what they say is what they were taught just like I was taught Catholicism and usually their hearts are just as involved as mine. They come here (hopefully) to try and get answers to questions they have in their own mind and sometimes they don’t even really know what is driving them until we help in enlightening them. Jesus had the ability to look into men’s hearts and make judgments but he tells us in scripture to avoid doing so. This is the best way I try to approach it. Sometimes I fail. That by line in my signature is to remind me.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Realcatholic***

I love your zeal and I feel the same way about my brothers and sisters. It pains my heart greatly when they bash our church and the very real presence of our Lord and expecially our Most Holy and Blessed Mother. I could very easily get angry and it would be justified anger. But here is the problem, I was one of these children who did all those things. I mocked and condemned the RC and I was a very devote christian. I did nothing but read the bible and preach the cross 24/7. I did this to the point were I just about lost everyone I ever new. I had one hand on the bible and one eye on the sin of the souls of the world. I was determined to be just like Paul and walk the land with only one love and that was Jesus alone. Sola Scripture was my life for 5 yrs. I was a Power Evangelical Christian…

You see, if I came across someone like you I would go to war with you and use the same scriptures you just posted. I was completely justified in my own eyes and had the weapons I needed to defend you. But as you know I was leaning on my own understanding, which didnt make be a bad christian or didnt make me love God any less, and certainly didnt make God love me any less. Because I was following God with my whole heart and that was what God was seeing. I know this because He granted me many graces for the Love I showed Him (even though I was dead wrong).

If a man was blind and continued to fall in the same hole day after day even though you keep showing him were the hole is would you be angry at him? or would you continue to show him compassion and even though you see the hole clearly because God gave you the grace of sight, and he continue’s to fall, wouldnt you be merciful knowing he is blind and obviously confused?

You see my brother Jesus had the right heart when He turned the tables because He had no sin, you and I my friend do have sin so we are not called to be the Judge, we are called to be witnesses to what God does for us and what God shows us. We are not Gods lawyers in this trial. And our testamony is only as good as it is received.

Peace unto you***

BM,

You, above all should realize whi people like me are needed. I am not mean !I actually will talk nicely to people. However, when I am attacked I attack back. If you read my posts they are mostly nice and sweet joking and friendly. However there are times that a firm hand is needed. If we repeat the fact that the Catholic church was here firet and the bible preaches against false teachers and about the devil attempting to divide God’s church maybe just maybe they will say " Hey that is me!" It is worth a shot. After all their best bet, to get to heaven is follow Jesus’ teachings. If they don’t follow the catholic church they are missing the fulliness of our shared faith. So are so far off base they aren’t even near to followers rather they are attempting to “lead” Jesus. How foolish! “Heym Jesus you said this in the Bible!” I am sure Jesus will say, :Oh, thanks! I appreciate you misunderstanding what I was attempting to teach you!"

God Bless you my friend,

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I also am a faithful follower of Father Corapi among others. He is a “tough love” kind of preacher but he is usually preaching that way to Catholics. His approach to non-Catholics is with certainty in his message but respect to their position. But we must keep in mind first and foremost to practice humility and be humble. When I tend to reach any level of frustration in dealing with issues such as this I try to keep in mind what they say is what they were taught just like I was taught Catholicism and usually their hearts are just as involved as mine. They come here (hopefully) to try and get answers to questions they have in their own mind and sometimes they don’t even really know what is driving them until we help in enlightening them. Jesus had the ability to look into men’s hearts and make judgments but he tells us in scripture to avoid doing so. This is the best way I try to approach it. Sometimes I fail. That by line in my signature is to remind me.

**Hi Twb,

I have heard ever talk given by Fr Corapi, one of his brother priests from his order and I was on a retreat together. Pray for Fr Corapi he has cancer. Extremely ill. Now there ,like St Agustine is a person who turned his life around. I have heard him talk to Protestants. He like me loves all people. He says “he will not allow his soul to be judged because he did not defend our faith” Ad a Priest he thinks he will be judged more harshly, I doubt that.

The Protestas who come here are “guided” here,. many yave valid questions or misunderstandings. I and others answer them nicely. Until, they tell us we are lying or repeat the question over and over ignoring the correct answer provided. Like “Mary was a sinner, why do you worship her” I answerd that question 5 times with one person until I realized it didn’t matter what I said so I did my “animal act” That person later apologized and started to listen to reason. I know I am not smarter or better than anyone here. Some people amaze me with their knowledge of scriputure. I am just a believer in jesus, I love my neighbor and must attemot to save his life, even if he doesn’t realize it needs saving.

let’s pray for one another. If you see me unjustly attack me, sometimes my zeal may overcome my love. When I notice it I even go back and apologize. It isn’t nice to run over people’s feelings. Like Bishop sheen use to say “Win and argument, lose a soul!” I don’t ant that responsibility.

God bless **

 

[Fox]

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

 

[twb1621]

**Hi Twb,

I have heard ever talk given by Fr Corapi, one of his brother priests from his order and I was on a retreat together. Pray for Fr Corapi he has cancer. Extremely ill. Now there ,like St Agustine is a person who turned his life around. I have heard him talk to Protestants. He like me loves all people. He says “he will not allow his soul to be judged because he did not defend our faith” Ad a Priest he thinks he will be judged more harshly, I doubt that.

The Protestas who come here are “guided” here,. many yave valid questions or misunderstandings. I and others answer them nicely. Until, they tell us we are lying or repeat the question over and over ignoring the correct answer provided. Like “Mary was a sinner, why do you worship her” I answerd that question 5 times with one person until I realized it didn’t matter what I said so I did my “animal act” That person later apologized and started to listen to reason. I know I am not smarter or better than anyone here. Some people amaze me with their knowledge of scriputure. I am just a believer in jesus, I love my neighbor and must attemot to save his life, even if he doesn’t realize it needs saving.

let’s pray for one another. If you see me unjustly attack me, sometimes my zeal may overcome my love. When I notice it I even go back and apologize. It isn’t nice to run over people’s feelings. Like Bishop sheen use to say “Win and argument, lose a soul!” I don’t ant that responsibility.

God bless **

I thought Father Corapi was cleared of the diagnosis of Cancer and it turned out to be something with his Thyroids? That would break my heart.
In regard to the rest you are correct and as far as your responses go I am with you. However It seems you, like me, (I could be wrong) get frustrated at times and we both need a nudge under the table if you know what I mean. We all, you and I and all else have our value in planting the seeds we are given so we pray together and support each other in our mission. God bless you…

 

[twb1621]

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

well, they are a bit grabby when it comes to the terminology we use at times…

 

[BMSODM]

Real catholic***

Blessings and grace unto you…

I love the early church fathers and love reading there writings. I read probably over 5,000 pages of there stuff. These souls died in amazing ways for the Lord. I respect them greatly and understand they were in a very critical time in our history. The burdens and crosses they carried must of been extremely heavy.

But I cant say I agree with everything they wrote and that is why in my opinion there writings aren’t considered sacred scripture. They are filled with much fruit but you can defently see the human parts in there pen. I beleive one of the human and fleshly parts were when they preached anyone ouside of the catholic fold would go to hell. You see as I read these writings they were really speaking to specific gnostic’s and other anti-christ groups. I feel as modern christians we sometimes mis apply these early texts. And use them on protestants and this is a false application.

Also, I figured out why they won’t accept the Blessed Mother and thats because they don’t receive the Eucharist. It wasn’t until I received the real presence that I was able to receive the Blessed Mother. And the sad part is that I seen Her at the age of 15 and I still rejected Her.

So while I agree, non-catholics are in part lost and in need of direction, I don’t agree that we should beat them over the head until they convert. Even if we do it loving , a beating is a beating.
Please know this I dont know you and I will not judge you. I am just offering my advice. Thats all…I havent been here long enough to see what and how you post. Im sure you doing a great job for the advancement of the Kingdom…

Peace***

 

[BMSODM]

Fox***

Grace unto you…

While I understand your frustration we must understand we do pray to the Saints. Because prayer really means to talk to, and thats what we are doing. We are asking them ( talking to them). We are asking them to interceed for us to Jesus. And in turn Jesus brings our prayers to God. We are going through Jesus to get to God, the only difference is we are using the instruments Jesus ordained as tools.

The reason protestants have a problem with this teaching is that if they accept one teaching they will be forced into looking at all the teachings, and as my friend said earlier, pride is the branch to sin.

Humility goes a long way…

Peace be with you***

 

[Realcatholicgk]

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

**Fox, calm down take a deep breath.

I am sorry to inform you, But I and most Catholics I know PRAY TO THE SAINTS. They need to stop misunderstanding the word Pray! We can do what we want it is our religion. Who actually cares what they think? Don’t you realize it is only the devil insisting on their trying to change our church’s beliefs. We haven’t done it in 2,000 years and aren’t going to today! You have to realize that there are 33,000 counferfeit denominations with 28,000 sub denominations having 1,375 doctrines and dogmas. This cancerous growth on the Body of Christ started only 500 years ago. The only thing these 61,000 imitation churches “ALL” AGREE ON IS:

The Catholic Church is Wrong!

Hmmm, I wonder who gave them that Idea? Let’s pray to the Saints, They might provide answers to us!

God Bless**

 

[Peter_J]

Hi Fox,

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

I think you hit the nail on the head, as far as what the real issue is here: we don’t do anything different than the undivided Church did in the first millennium. What’s different is just that we, following the example of St. Thomas Aquinas, call it “praying to the saints”.

As far as your suggestion that we stop calling it that, I’m not so sure. Maybe a better idea would be to continue saying “praying to the saints”, but try to have more understanding for those who prefer to calling it something else, e.g. “invocation of the saints”.

 

[twb1621]

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

I understand what you are saying but the only way to term it would be Praying to the saints for their intercession for us to God but then it gets a little wordy.

 

[rocketrob]

For the love of God, Catholics really need to stop saying we pray to Saints or anyone for that matter. WE DON’T PRAY TO ANYONE BUT GOD HIMSELF. Say we ask for intercessions or some other thing.

Geez, its people in the Catholic Church that fuel these views to our Christian brothers and sisters, no wonder other Christians believe it. We as Catholics, need to pay attention to our words so these types of ignorances can be stopped thoughout the other denominations.

As a former protestant, I can tell you that Fox has a point. So, I wouldn’t be too quick to discount this obseration. Its important to figure out what the real question or issue is that you might be discussing with someone. Is it the concept that Saints are somehow being worshipped, that Christ’s salvific work or role as sole mediator is somehow being diminished, or is it just a general problem with trying to ‘communicate with the dead?’

rocketrob

 

[Peter_J]

I understand what you are saying but the only way to term it would be Praying to the saints for their intercession for us to God but then it gets a little wordy.

The way I see it, calling it “praying to the saints” is not something that we have to do (we could just call it “invocation of the saints”), although it is something that’s good to do – if a saint (Aquinas, in this case) sheds new light on an old practice, then we shouldn’t close our eyes to it.

 

[twb1621]

The way I see it, calling it “praying to the saints” is not something that we have to do (we could just call it “invocation of the saints”), although it is something that’s good to do – if a saint (Aquinas, in this case) sheds new light on an old practice, then we shouldn’t close our eyes to it.

That would work somewhat. The problem is we all have to keep in mind who we are talking to when discuss these things just as rocketrob has said. It is an invocation but you know what will probably happen then, they will think we are conjuring up spirits again. We will never clear it completely. Many of us still use the term “worship” incorrectly instead of honor and that throws them into a tither. Thats been going on for many years especially the elder faithful. Terminology is more crucial a topic today then ever.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

As a former protestant, I can tell you that Fox has a point. So, I wouldn’t be too quick to discount this obseration. Its important to figure out what the real question or issue is that you might be discussing with someone. Is it the concept that Saints are somehow being worshipped, that Christ’s salvific work or role as sole mediator is somehow being diminished, or is it just a general problem with trying to ‘communicate with the dead?’

rocketrob

**
Hi Rock,

Try to be nicer. I don’t think you should call Protestants “dead” .It is just a problem trying to communicate with people we impose their beliefs on your practices. o

God Bless**

 

[twb1621]

**
Hi Rock,

Try to be nicer. I don’t think you should call Protestants “dead” .It is just a problem trying to communicate with people we impose their beliefs on your practices. o

God Bless**

Hey real, do you know if that is still the case with Father Corapi having cancer or was that rediagnosed?

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

I am a Protestant but I’ve recently become interested in the Catholic faith. One of my concerns with Catholicism, though, is saints. I’ve sort of been taught that Cathlics worship saints, especially through prayer. I’ve talked to some of my Catholic friends about it and they say it isn’t worship, and that what they’re doing is intercessory prayer. what exactly is that? also, is there biblical proof that we should pray to saints?
I want to get a Catholic point of view on this, I don’t want to base all my opinions just on what Protestants say, because I know there is some bias there.

The Wedding at Cana is a good example of the intercession of saints. Jesus didn’t wanna do something but Mary nudged him to do it.

Outside of the Bible, we still have proof of saints’ intercession. When people are declared saints today, they go through a rigourous process that requires miracles. People pray to dead holy people to ask for their help, and they may receive miraculous cures of illnesses. Those cures are examined by the Church through doctors who discern whether or not it looks like a supernatural cure; a lot of the time, those doctors reject the cures that are brought in front of them and they are really strict and tight about what would pass. It sounds practically impossible to happen, but they do: tumours disappear overnight, small body parts that were missing would suddenly form, etc. We hear a lot about people being declared saints, but we unfortunately rarely hear about the miracles that happened through their intercession.