Proof for praying to saints

[Chris_LaRock]

In addition to what realcatholic mentioned, there have been children and adults both regardless of faith who have been blessed with contact from the Holy including the Blessed Virgin. Some of these people new nothing about her until these things have occurred. If you recall, Even Saul was confronted with Jesus After the assumption before he believed and became Paul.

How can I set up an appointment with a Saint?:compcoff:

 

[Realcatholicgk]

How can I set up an appointment with a Saint?:compcoff:

**That reminded me of a joke:

Two guys loved to play golf. They made a deal if one died he would attempt to communicate with the other one. Eventually one guy dies. The followign week the other guy was playing golf and heard his friends voice saying “Fred, I am in Heaven!” He replied " Really, do they have golf there?" His friend said “I have bad news, yes they do!” The guy said “H could that be bad news?” The friend said "Your Tee time is 8AM tomorow! "

Real answer to your question: Pray!

God Bless**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Blessings***

While I agree satan was the author of the reform, I would also say because God’s Word will never return void, that God has taken what satan has done and made it into a positive. I beleive the reform was intended by satan to cut the vine from its source but because of God’s grace instead of cutting the vine it has pruned it and has resulted it into forming branches off the vine.

We can’t deny the good some of the denominations are doing for the kingdom. We can’t deny the souls that are coming to the Lord in some of these denominations. These are fruits and a bad tree can’t bear good fruit.

The ironic part is that the Catholic church is all about unity and even its attackers are unifed in there judgements against Her. Isn’t that funny how even through its attack’s it still can unify people? God is so awesome!!!

Do one to others as you would want done to you. If you dont want them to attack you don’t attack them…

Peace unto You***

**BM Some excellent points! However they attacked us 500 years ago and satan continues the fight against us, so we must defend our selves and our church!. Pray for the conversion of all protestants.

God Bless**

 

[twb1621]

How can I set up an appointment with a Saint?:compcoff:

Convert to Catholicism with sincerity of heart and live a life of humility and charity in Jesus. When your appointment comes you’ll meet many saints.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Convert to Catholicism with sincerity of heart and live a life of humility and charity in Jesus. When your appointment comes you’ll meet many saints.

I don’t know if I can do that. I mean, the RCC will excommunicate a Priest for ordaining a woman - but they won’t excommunicate pro-aborts, pro-gay “marriage” people, and sexually immoral priests.

When I see the church enforcing their own teachings, then I will convert.

 

[johnnydigit]

I don’t know if I can do that. I mean, the RCC will excommunicate a Priest for ordaining a woman - but they won’t excommunicate pro-aborts, pro-gay “marriage” people, and sexually immoral priests.

When I see the church enforcing their own teachings, then I will convert.

you should convert because you know from reason and faith that it is truly the one Church Jesus established that is protected by the Holy Spirit forever. your reasons, although very serious, have nothing to do with whether or not the RCC is the real deal. as an organization it may not be perfect, but that is not what Jesus created it for. St. Paul’s letters were addressing the churches that were having problems even during those apostolic times. they were still One. regardless of how well the members are living up to His teachings, it nevertheless holds them in tact and will teach them in tact. it has been for the past 2000 years and it always will, now and forever.

again, don’t convert because of those reasons. convert because you believe that in Matthew 16:18 Jesus gave the keys to Peter.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

you should convert because you know from reason and faith that it is truly the one Church Jesus established that is protected by the Holy Spirit forever. your reasons, although very serious, have nothing to do with whether or not the RCC is the real deal. as an organization it may not be perfect, but that is not what Jesus created it for. St. Paul’s letters were addressing the churches that were having problems even during those apostolic times. they were still One. regardless of how well the members are living up to His teachings, it nevertheless holds them in tact and will teach them in tact. it has been for the past 2000 years and it always will, now and forever.

again, don’t convert because of those reasons. convert because you believe that in Matthew 16:18 Jesus gave the keys to Peter.

“By their fruits you shall know them.”

I want to see some backbone in the clergy.

 

[johnnydigit]

“By their fruits you shall know them.”

I want to see some backbone in the clergy.

quantitatively, the RCC has the most fruits in the whole world. we feed the most, help the most, have the most missions, etc. but that is not the point. like i said, by your criteria, all the churches in St. Paul’s letters were not true churches. you will never find the perfect church, because you will never find perfect people.

backbone is not a criteria for the one, holy, and apostolic church of Christ. at one time all the Apostles ran like cowards when Jesus was caught. they denied Christ, sinned, governed poorly and who knows what else at times. they were nevertheless true Apostles of Christ. only later on did they martyr themselves, just like the millions of martyrs in the RCC since then.

what you’re looking for is an organization that meets your standards the way you see fit, not God’s. either Matthew 16:18 is true, or it isn’t. if it is, stop making excuses and do what you have to do. if it isn’t, continue lolly-gagging around and church hop as you please.

may God guide you into the way of peace.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

quantitatively, the RCC has the most fruits in the whole world. we feed the most, help the most, have the most missions, etc. but that is not the point. like i said, by your criteria, all the churches in St. Paul’s letters were not true churches. you will never find the perfect church, because you will never find perfect people.

backbone is not a criteria for the one, holy, and apostolic church of Christ. at one time all the Apostles ran like cowards when Jesus was caught. they denied Christ, sinned, governed poorly and who knows what else at times. they were nevertheless true Apostles of Christ. only later on did they martyr themselves, just like the millions of martyrs in the RCC since then.

what you’re looking for is an organization that meets your standards the way you see fit, not God’s. either Matthew 16:18 is true, or it isn’t. if it is, stop making excuses and do what you have to do. if it isn’t, continue lolly-gagging around and church hop as you please.

may God guide you into the way of peace.

I just want to see consitancy. Speaking out against something that is evil, and then allowing people who promote that evil to remain in the church and defile the Lord’s body by taking communion is wrong.

 

[twb1621]

I don’t know if I can do that. I mean, the RCC will excommunicate a Priest for ordaining a woman - but they won’t excommunicate pro-aborts, pro-gay “marriage” people, and sexually immoral priests.

When I see the church enforcing their own teachings, then I will convert.

This is not the JH. Every Catholic knows and it is a norm of the faith taught by the Church that a person who commits such violations ARE excommunicated from the Church by their own doing. It doesn’t take a man telling them they are excommunicated for Jesus is the final Judge. Only absolute repentance through the act of reconciliation (God knows what’s in a person’s heart) can reunite such a person with the Faith. If they choose to continue taking part in the church under such circumstances they will be judged by God, not man. It is no man’s right to pass absolute judgment on another.

 

[freshwater]

**Remember what it says in the:bible1: " Bible" about wolves" in sheep’s" clothing" ?:dts: [SIGN]Yup, we can understand that kind of lingo today too.[/SIGN] . … This is what come s to mind to me , when I think about other religions that speak badly about " our faith" the " Catholic s" . **
Love , Peace ,
freshwater

 

[Peter_J]

you should convert because you know from reason and faith that it is truly the one Church Jesus established that is protected by the Holy Spirit forever.

I’m intrigued. (Perhaps you 2 simply had a conversation that I missed.) Chris LaRock, do you consider the RCC to be “the one Church Jesus established that is protected by the Holy Spirit forever”, as johnnydigit has said? (And, if so, why aren’t you Catholic?)

 

[Chris_LaRock]

This is not the JH. Every Catholic knows and it is a norm of the faith taught by the Church that a person who commits such violations ARE excommunicated from the Church by their own doing. It doesn’t take a man telling them they are excommunicated for Jesus is the final Judge. Only absolute repentance through the act of reconciliation (God knows what’s in a person’s heart) can reunite such a person with the Faith. If they choose to continue taking part in the church under such circumstances they will be judged by God, not man. It is no man’s right to pass absolute judgment on another.

Then why was excommunication created in the first place?

 

[BMSODM]

Then why was excommunication created in the first place?

Blessings***

I beleive it was created for the religious not so much for the lay people. But scripture can support excommunicating someone, if done through the church. I will say this thou, I don’t beleive it’s common practice to excommunicate lay people any more. The only time it should be enforced in my opinion is when we have someone teaching the flock with intent to mislead them…

*15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven*.

Grace unto you***

 

[twb1621]

Then why was excommunication created in the first place?

it is a result of mortal sin against God and taught as such. A person who is taught the Faith is also taught this is the result. Of course a person can be excommunicated by an official of the Church but it does not take that for a Catholic to know he has committed an offense against God that results in excommunication. The reason it is self condemning is a person who is sincerely repentant can go receive the sacrament of Reconciliation in most any country to any Catholic Priest. The priest who may know him in his home parish can not know if this happened, there is no way to verify it. But the person himself knows if he himself is still excommunicated based on his sincerity and penance. For instance, those who continue to receive the Eucharist when they support abortion know what they are doing and may not admit it, but know where it will lead them if unreconciled. Although God is Merciful and forgiving, God’s word is not based on what a person chooses to believe or follow, it is all or nothing.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Blessings***

I beleive it was created for the religious not so much for the lay people. But scripture can support excommunicating someone, if done through the church. I will say this thou, I don’t beleive it’s common practice to excommunicate lay people any more. The only time it should be enforced in my opinion is when we have someone teaching the flock with intent to mislead them…

*15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church*, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Grace unto you***

A Catholic political leader telling Catholic voters abortion, assisted suicide, gay “marriage”, and “mercy killing” are okay isn’t teaching error?

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I don’t know if I can do that. I mean, the RCC will excommunicate a Priest for ordaining a woman - but they won’t excommunicate pro-aborts, pro-gay “marriage” people, and sexually immoral priests.

When I see the church enforcing their own teachings, then I will convert.

**
Hi Chris,

Of course you are wrong. Are you surprised? A priest can’t ordain anyone. And por-abortionist (Who participate in an abortion automatically excommuniate themselves) Our church does not support nor marry gay couples. If they are sexaully active they are sinners just like the immoral priests. This makes them sinners. Jesus loved sinners more then Pharisees. You think the Catholic church is the only one that “allows” things like this? WE are made of humans. Humans are able to be corrupted by the devil. Look what he did 500 years ago! He stole many souls from Jesus’ real church and put them on the pathway to hell! **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

“By their fruits you shall know them.”

I want to see some backbone in the clergy.

AMEN, my Friend! And many have it. Some are worried about secular things. They are Human. Everyone needs prayers Priests more than most. They have a very hard job to do

 

[guanophore]

I don’t know if I can do that. I mean, the RCC will excommunicate a Priest for ordaining a woman - but they won’t excommunicate pro-aborts, pro-gay “marriage” people, and sexually immoral priests.

When I see the church enforcing their own teachings, then I will convert.

I understand your point. However, there are some actions that trigger excommunication in themselves, so that formal pronouncement is not necessary. Abortion is such an issue. A person who has an abortion or assist in the procurement of one is automatically ex- communicated. The act in itself trigger it. Although it is a grave moral peril to be “pro” sinful behavior, it is difficult to discern when one has actually crossed the line, so to speak. Only God knows the heart. Jesus said that it is just as sinful to lust for a woman as to commit adultery. Yet, only He can know the heart. If all of us were excommunicated for sexual immorality, the Church would not be a hospital for sinners! I agree that sexual immorality should not be tolerated, whether it is priests or laity. However, this is what the Sacrament of Reconciliation was designed to address. Jesus did not come to call the righteous.

“By their fruits you shall know them.”

I want to see some backbone in the clergy.

I love to see that too, however, that is not the foundation of the Church. The “backbone” of the Church is the cross of Christ, against which He pressed His backbone. All of His disciples, the first clergy, fled in fear. The chief of the Apostles denied Him three times. If we depend for our faith upon the frailities of men, we will be forever lost.

I just want to see consitancy. Speaking out against something that is evil, and then allowing people who promote that evil to remain in the church and defile the Lord’s body by taking communion is wrong.

I too long to see this consistency. However, I have never been put in a position to have to make a decision about whether to welcome or deny communion to anyone. It is a pastoral problem that has become intense. However, it would be much more effective for you to pray for the “backbone” of the priests an bishops that to stand afar and make pot shots.

Then why was excommunication created in the first place?

This is an excellent question! The Apostles understood the Church to be the only “ship” in which we can make it to the shores of heaven. When Jesus is in the boat (Peter’s boat), all is well. Those who reject the teaching of Jesus, or get out of Peter’s boat from which He teaches, they make a shipwreck of their faith.

1 Tim 1:19-2:1
“By rejecting conscience, certain persons have suffered shipwreck in the faith; 20 among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have turned over to Satan, so that they may learn not to blaspheme.”

It was understood by the Apostles that Satan is the god of this world, and that all who were not in Peter’s Boat would flounder and perish. Only those in the bosom of the Church could be protected by Christ. Excommunication, severance of a person from the protection of the Church, was done as a last resort to impress upon the offender the gravity of the sin, and hopefully get them to “snap” and return to the faith.

I beleive it was created for the religious not so much for the lay people. But scripture can support excommunicating someone, if done through the church.

I disagree with this. However, I will say that clergy are more culpable than the layperson, as they are expected to know more, and have taken on greater responsibilities it the faith.

I will say this thou, I don’t beleive it’s common practice to excommunicate lay people any more. The only time it should be enforced in my opinion is when we have someone teaching the flock with intent to mislead them…

There are many practices that automatically separate people from the Church. These have been clarified as such, so formal procedures are not needed.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

A Catholic political leader telling Catholic voters abortion, assisted suicide, gay “marriage”, and “mercy killing” are okay isn’t teaching error?

**ANY political leader that calls Him/her self a Christian would be wrong in they said that. Politicans aren’t teachers, they are making money! Their god is power in most cases! **