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guanophore
Guest
No. Such a one is a poor role model, and certainly a stumbling block to the faith. But such persons are not authorized by Christ to teach, and therefore, are not as liable as those who have been ordained as such.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
All of that is excuses for not expelling apostates. Being involved in keeping abortion legal makes them murderers, and your church should have the guts to oust them. I know many protestants who are only holding out on converting because of this issue.
A person with cancer has it cut out of them. They don’t just ignore it and let it grow.
A person with cancer has it cut out of them. They don’t just ignore it and let it grow.
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twb1621
Guest
Absolutely. And any Catholic who would lead others to believe these things IS excomunicated and as so the Bible states in both the OT and NT condemned. The only way that can be reversed is through the sacrement of reconciliation and in a matter concerning public teaching, would have to recant that wrongful teaching just as publically. This is why the Church has informed these politicans to stop claiming to be Catholic if they are going to take this stand.
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BMSODM
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**
Church is not Wal-Mart **
[NB. Permission to repost/copy with proper attribution is given.]
- The Roman Catholic Church isn’t WalMart or Burger King; it’s the Body of Christ.
3). The doctrine and dogma of the Catholic Church are not consumer products that the Church’s employees sell to those who want them; Catholic doctrine and dogma express the unchanging truth of the faith.
4). Life in a Catholic parish is not a trip to Disney Land or Target or McDonald’s where your consumer needs and whims are catered to by the whimpering clergy and lay staff; parish life is the life of Christ for the local Catholic family.
5). You do not come into the Catholic Church b/c you like the building better than you like the Methodist chapel; or because the priest at the Catholic parish is cuter than the Baptist preacher; or because you heard that the homilies are shorter at St. Bubba’s by the Lake than they are at the Unitarian Church. You come into the Catholic Church because you believe that the Catholic faith is the truth of the gospel taught by Christ himself and given to his apostles.
6). Leaving the Catholic Church because a priest was mean to you, or because sister whacked you with a ruler, or because the church secretary looked at you funny is as stupid as giving up on the truths of math because you hate your high school algebra teacher. Why would anyone let a crazy priest or a cranky nun or anyone else for the matter drive you out of the faith you believe is true? My only conclusion: you never thought it was true to begin with; or, you have a favorite sin the Church teaches against and crazy priests and cranky nuns is as good an excuse as any to leave and pursue your sin all the while feeling justified because Father and/or Sister are such jerks.
7). Anyone who comes in the Catholic Church thinking that they will find clouds of angels at Mass dressed as parishioners; hordes of perfect saints kneeling for communion; seminaries packed with angelic young men burning to be priests; a parish hall stacked to the ceiling with morally pure people eager to serve; and a priest without flaw or blemish, well, you’re cracked and you probably need to go back and try again. Telling Catholics that they aren’t perfect makes as much sense as telling fish they’re wet. We know already. Move on.
8). Of the hundreds of priests and religious I know, I know two who could count as saints right now. The rest of us are deeply flawed, impure, struggling creatures who know all too well that we fail utterly to meet the basic standards of holiness. For that matter: so do you. Get in line.
9). The Catholic Church owes no one a revision of her doctrine or dogma. She didn’t change to save most of Europe from becoming Protestant, why would you imagine that she would change just to get you in one of her parishes?
10). If you want to become Catholic, do it. But do it because you think the Church teaches the true faith. If a cranky priest on a blogsite is enough to keep you from embracing the truth of the faith, then two things are painfully clear:
- you do not believe the Church teaches the faith;
- and you care more about expresssing your hurt consumer feelings than you do for your immortal soul.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
All of that is excuses for not expelling apostates.
**We could burn them at stakes but the last time we did that people complained! **
Being involved in keeping abortion legal makes them murderers, and your church should have the guts to oust them.
**I say Burn them, Burn them!**
I know many protestants who are only holding out on converting because of this issue.
**
One excuse is as good as another!**
A person with cancer has it cut out of them. They don’t just ignore it and let it grow.
**Yea, we were wrong!500 years ago we could have stopped the cancerous growth! But I think it is too late, 33,000 demoninations with 28,000 sub denominations with 1,375 different doctrines and dogmas growing at a rate of one church a week. **
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ferdie
Guest
The true Church of Christ is made of saints and sinners. I did not go back to the church because catholics are nice, but because I found her doctrines to be true.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
I’m talking about the self-professed Roman Catholic senators, congressmen, mayors, governors, and judges.
How many abortionists keep their job a secret and pose as devout Catholics on sunday?
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
I’m not suggesting you burn them at the stake. I’m suggesting they be publically excommunicated to make an example of them.
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BMSODM
Guest
Peace unto you***
So because some in the body are weeds you say we should pull those weeds, but what does God’s Word say?
*24 He set another parable before them, saying, "The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field,
25 but while people slept, his enemy came and sowed darnel weeds{darnel is a weed grass (probably bearded darnel or lolium temulentum) that looks very much like wheat until it is mature, when the difference becomes very apparent.} also among the wheat, and went away.
26 But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then the darnel weeds appeared also.
27 The servants of the householder came and said to him, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where did this darnel come from?’
28 "He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ "The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and gather them up?’
29 "But he said, 'No, lest perhaps while you gather up the darnel weeds, you root up the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest time I will tell the reapers, “First, gather up the darnel weeds, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’"
*
Blessings***
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twb1621
Guest
Chris, To do so as an “example” would only serve as an act of vengence against them and retribution to serve pride. The church has made it very clear to these people that what they are doing is an act constituting excommunication but there is really no way to physically stopping them from claiming they are active Catholics. Further, excommunication by the Church publically will bring about as much condemnation against the Church from her enemies as not proclaiming such. Every Catholic knows the situation and knows it is hypocracy to take part in or claim themselves as actively Catholic. God is the supreme Judge of their actions and I am sure they are known for what they are. The Church will do what it must do dependant on the circumstances but It cannot be done based on our pride as we all know pride and ego are the base for sin. aside from that, can you imagine what these people are thought of in their own parishes and Churches? Can you imagine what they will have to answer to before the Lord at the time of their judgement? Would you want to be one of them under those circumstances? Not me…
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
"Down in Wichita, Kansas, there is a physician by the name of George Tiller. On his website he boasts that he has already performed 60,000 abortions, mostly late-term, and week after week he is killing 100 more unborn babies.
Dr. Tiller does not think of these fetuses as clusters of cancerous cells. He knows they are human because he baptizes some of them before he incinerates them in his own crematorium. You don’t baptize non-humans. Dr. Tiller knows that. He is a practicing Lutheran.
His former congregation,
Holy Cross of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, excommunicated him as an unrepentant sinner.
Dr. Tiller does not think of these fetuses as clusters of cancerous cells. He knows they are human because he baptizes some of them before he incinerates them in his own crematorium. You don’t baptize non-humans. Dr. Tiller knows that. He is a practicing Lutheran.
His former congregation,
Holy Cross of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, excommunicated him as an unrepentant sinner.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
Just admit it. The RCC is afraid of the public back-lash they would get for excommunicating these people - so they just ignore it. Sure, a Bishop might occaisionally make a public statement about these pro-aborts, but at the end of the day these people who are willfully contributing to the deaths of children are allowed to remain in good standing with the RCC.
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BMSODM
Guest
Chris…
Why are you ignoring the scripture I provided?
Blessings***
Why are you ignoring the scripture I provided?
Blessings***
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
I’m not ignoring it. I just feel that liberal theologans use that passage to justify being complacant. I could also provide scriptural passages that tell us to “expell the immoral man”, and make a case for excommunication.
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BMSODM
Guest
Blessings and Grace***
Remember the scripture I provided came from your Lords Lips. I beleive you should hold His Word’s with some authority. These aren’t the words of an apostle or disciple. Listen to how your Lord defines the parable I provided…
*36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.*
We cant judge the organization by a few members. When we go to church it should be you and the Lord, not who sits to your right and left that matters. If the Lord was standing in front of you do you think you would even notice who was next to you?
Peace unto you***
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guanophore
Guest
I understand, but excommunication is a complicated pastoral matter. As shameful as it is, a person might say something in public that does not represent their values, beliefs, and practices. This must be determined individually with the parishoner by the priest or bishop. I can actually think of several so called Catholics in the public forum that might be improved with a little toasing close to a fire!
No, you are mistaken, Chris. The Catholic Church has never been afraid of “public backlash” since Peter was in front of the Sanhedren. It is a complicated pastoral matter.Just admit it. The RCC is afraid of the public back-lash they would get for excommunicating these people - so they just ignore it. Sure, a Bishop might occaisionally make a public statement about these pro-aborts, but at the end of the day these people who are willfully contributing to the deaths of children are allowed to remain in good standing with the RCC.
I think that your are ill informed about the work of the Bishops. I encourage you to explore the website. The bishops have not been idle, and there are some that have come out very strongly.
You misunderstand the nature of communion. It is not dependent upon what a bishop does or does not do. “at the end of the day these people who are willfully contributing to the deaths of children” are automatically excommunicated by virtue of their choice. Whether they think they remain in good standing, or pretend that they do, is irrelvant. The fact is that they have separated themselves by sin. This occurs whether a bishop makes an official pronouncement or not.
Perhaps you are right, but it is irrelevant. Liberal theologians are not in charge of Catholic Teaching. This is the duty of the Magesterium (teaching authority appointed by Christ to make disciples). Again, the immoral man “expels” himself. I think it is beneficial for the Magesterium to also expel him, as you say, to make a public statement.
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Chris_LaRock
Guest
How is it complicated? These people are contributing to mass murder. Their actions alone should be enough to warrent excommunication. If I’m against theft and steal a car, I’m still a thief.I understand, but excommunication is a complicated pastoral matter. As shameful as it is, a person might say something in public that does not represent their values, beliefs, and practices. This must be determined individually with the parishoner by the priest or bishop. I can actually think of several so called Catholics in the public forum that might be improved with a little toasing close to a fire!
No, you are mistaken, Chris. The Catholic Church has never been afraid of “public backlash” since Peter was in front of the Sanhedren. It is a complicated pastoral matter.
I think that your are ill informed about the work of the Bishops. I encourage you to explore the website. The bishops have not been idle, and there are some that have come out very strongly.
You misunderstand the nature of communion. It is not dependent upon what a bishop does or does not do. “at the end of the day these people who are willfully contributing to the deaths of children” are automatically excommunicated by virtue of their choice. Whether they think they remain in good standing, or pretend that they do, is irrelvant. The fact is that they have separated themselves by sin. This occurs whether a bishop makes an official pronouncement or not.
Perhaps you are right, but it is irrelevant. Liberal theologians are not in charge of Catholic Teaching. This is the duty of the Magesterium (teaching authority appointed by Christ to make disciples). Again, the immoral man “expels” himself. I think it is beneficial for the Magesterium to also expel him, as you say, to make a public statement.
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guanophore
Guest
It is not incumbent upon us to judge others for their sins. Only God knows their hearts. In order to be in mortal sin, one must knowingly and freely engage in the grave matter. We can hope and pray that their eyes are blinded, and that they know not what they do. At the same time, we can work to enlighten them, an pray for them so that they will be converted and healed of blindness.
However, I agree with you that excommunication might be an excellent wake up call.
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twb1621
Guest
Just admit it. The RCC is afraid of the public back-lash they would get for excommunicating these people - so they just ignore it. Not at all. but this isn’t the Ford motor company,This is the Church of the Christ, Jesus that teaches trust in God and all He expects of His people. God gives everyone the free will to choose their path just as He allowed Judas to Choose his path. God Guides His Church through the Holy Spirit and I know that if public excommunication is called for it will be but not until it is called for. Sure, a Bishop might occaisionally make a public statement about these pro-aborts, but at the end of the day these people who are willfully contributing to the deaths of children are allowed to remain in good standing with the RCC.I share the feelings agaisnt abortion but you know they are not in good standing by any means. You m ust trust in God that the right course will be taken as He elects.
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